Watchmen: A GM's tale...or why we set campaign limits

[Markdoc]

Re: Watchmen: A GM's tale...or why we set campaign limits

 

He has no interest in what's going on in the terms we would ascribe to a character- it is implied that his actions are completely predetermined. Furthermore it can be inferred that the only difference between the other heroes and Dr. M is that he knows he's going through the motions. But this super-sentience makes all the difference in the world when it comes to determining whether he's a character (PC' date=' GMPC or NPC) or another kind of object.[/quote']

 

More than implied - on Mars he actually says something like "We are all puppets - I'm just a puppet who can see the strings"

 

I agree though that he's merely a plot device/NPC. There's an interesting hint of Moore's view on this. He exhibits god-like powers - at the end he says he's going off to create and observe his own forms of life. There's an earlier discussion with his first girlfriend about whether he's actually god and it's commented in another place that some of the Vietnamese have started worshipping him. (I've noted that things mentioned multiple times usually indicate an intended theme in Watchmen) And he was created in a machine - he is literally a deus ex machina - a very Moore-like pun

 

cheers, Mark.

[McCoy]

Re: Watchmen: A GM's tale...or why we set campaign limits

 

Actually, if you think about what Dr. Manhattan actually does in the movie (I haven't read the graphic novel), he's a lot like Gandalf: he doesn't use most of the powers he's alleged to have. We have:

 

1. Teleport, Megascale, can scale down, usable by others

2. Transform normal person into bursting balloon of guts.

3. Regeneration from death.

4. Telekinesis.

5. Prescience/recognition, always on.

6. Growth.

7. Multiform.

 

That is pretty much it. Or maybe flight is in there, too. You could build this in a typical 350 point character. On top of that, Dr. Manhatten was slow. Everyone else reacted a lot faster than he did.

 

And playing characters at different point levels shouldn't be too much of a problem as long as the characters treat each other as equals, and they are built to the same standard. If everyone has approximately 60 point attacks, it shouldn't matter if one character has more variety in their repertoire.

 

Doc

Duplication

Above human INT and EGO

Teleportation useable as an attack

 

Most impressive display of Doc's power was left out of the movie.

 

[dialog paraphrased from memory]

 

Remember the riot where Night Owl and the Comedian were tring to restore order? In the GN, Dr. Manhattan showed up and said something like "we are here to restore order. You will all now return to your homes."

 

A protester shouted something like "We're not going anywhere!"

 

"It was not a request."

 

And Doc Dan and Eddie were on the street alone. Had teleported each rioter to their own home. Narriation mentions several had heart attacks, and IIRC some developed psycosis from this, but that was POWER!

[Markdoc]

Re: Watchmen: A GM's tale...or why we set campaign limits

 

Doc is almost a casebook example of

 

Desolidified; Persistent, 0END, Always On, Inherent (affected by Intrinsic Fields)

 

with Affects Real World on his STR and one helluva Transform and KA almost with a Teleport Mulitpower.

 

Also flight - we see him flying outside the white house

Duplication

Telekinesis - we see him holding multiple objects up in the air without touching them when he's working on the synchrotron and he dresses himself without using his hands

Clinging (he walks on walls as through they were flat)

Either a funky sense or extreme microscopic/telescopic vision - he can see tachyons and gluons (I must admit it sounds more like "molecular sense" to me

Growth (he's hellacious big when he crushes the wall of Ozymandias' base and also while working on the synchrotron or blowing up Vietnamese)

Precognition - we see him telling Laurie what she's going to do or say before she actually does it

Life support (usable on others)

and possibly mucho regeneration (though maybe that's just a special effect of being desolid and the intrinsic field subtracter didn't in fact disintegrate him.)

 

It's still doable, but I'd struggle to get it in under 350 points simply because of the magnitude of some of his demonstrated powers - I'm thinking of "Simultaneously teleport multiple people to their homes" - not to mention how he knew where their homes actually were....

 

Edit: I hadn't seen McCoy's post, but yeah - It was Laurie and Dr. M outside the White House, but yeah, it's a great scene. Pity they left it out of the movie - I think that just screams "Ultimate badass"

 

cheers, Mark

[Egyptoid]

Re: Watchmen: A GM's tale...or why we set campaign limits

 

this movie, plus recent things in my Champions games,

is why Step 3 of my USA5O project is going back to the

hard and fast "Rule of X" calcs for all those heroes....

[Haven Walkur]

Re: Watchmen: A GM's tale...or why we set campaign limits

 

Rule of X? Explain please.

[Bloodstone]

Re: Watchmen: A GM's tale...or why we set campaign limits

 

Rule of X is system to help control the power of characters, without having to set a bunch of hard caps. This allows character to specialize in a certain area by neglecting other areas (for example, making yourself a very high damage blaster that is maybe slower or less accurate than his team mates)

 

It's also a decent way to eyeball a batch of characters for potential power imbalances, even in games that don't outright use the rule.

 

It's explained in the Champions book.

[DocMan]

Re: Watchmen: A GM's tale...or why we set campaign limits

 

I don't remember Multiform' date=' their was a (If you are a jerk GM) use of shapeshift to darken his hue and Duplication was used in the sex scene[/quote']

 

Brain fart on my part. I meant Duplication, but let my fingers type Multiform.

 

Doc

[nexus]

Re: Watchmen: A GM's tale...or why we set campaign limits

 

I don't remember Multiform' date=' their was a (If you are a jerk GM) use of shapeshift to darken his hue and Duplication was used in the sex scene[/quote']

 

Out of curiosity, why would using Shapeshift for that effect make you a jerk GM?

[Certified]

Re: Watchmen: A GM's tale...or why we set campaign limits

 

Brain fart on my part. I meant Duplication, but let my fingers type Multiform.

 

Doc

 

Well he can turn into a car...

 

[JmOz]

Re: Watchmen: A GM's tale...or why we set campaign limits

 

Out of curiosity' date=' why would using Shapeshift for that effect make you a jerk GM?[/quote']

 

It is a minor fun bit, their is no real value in it other than as a cool look at me bit. If the GM would require you to pay character points for it I would wonder why...at most it should have been a power roll, but even that I just don't see it. It's kind of like the ultimate speedster where it talks about letting the guy go to NY NY to buy pizza

[nexus]

Re: Watchmen: A GM's tale...or why we set campaign limits

 

It is a minor fun bit, their is no real value in it other than as a cool look at me bit. If the GM would require you to pay character points for it I would wonder why...at most it should have been a power roll, but even that I just don't see it.

 

Ah, I see. I just considered it a sfx of a larger ability like Shapeshift or his VPP: Matter Mastery" or the like.

 

It's kind of like the ultimate speedster where it talks about letting the guy go to NY NY to buy pizza

 

Well, in that case I would expect the character to have the ability to move that distance in a reasonable amount of time paid for. I wouldn't go through making him roll to hit the hex or any of that I generally I wouldn't just assume he can do it because his sfx is "Speedster" because almost inevitably the situation will come up where the player will want to use it to some real game or plot line effect. .

[lapsedgamer]

Re: Watchmen: A GM's tale...or why we set campaign limits

 

Ah, I see. I just considered it a sfx of a larger ability like Shapeshift or his VPP: Matter Mastery" or the like.

 

 

 

Well, in that case I would expect the character to have the ability to move that distance in a reasonable amount of time paid for. I wouldn't go through making him roll to hit the hex or any of that I generally I wouldn't just assume he can do it because his sfx is "Speedster" because almost inevitably the situation will come up where the player will want to use it to some real game or plot line effect. .

 

Agreed. It should not be a for free thing, but if he has enough noncombat movement, REC and END to do it, (or better yet Megascale) then why not. I agree that if you handwave it too much, the player will come to you at some point wondering why he couldn't nip out and pick up the Ultimate Nullifier from headquarters to take out the Big Bad.

[CGlied]

Re: Watchmen: A GM's tale...or why we set campaign limits

 

dc comics and mayfair games did a watchmen adventure for the dc comics role playing game i used to own a copy it had the pc gatered for a mission by capt metropolis who unknown to the others was behind the whole thing

 

It took place shortly after the failed Crimebusters meeting.

 

I ran it and while the adventure was stilted, it was pretty cool when one of my players, (the one who played the Comedian) totally saw through the surprise ending from the get go, bit his tongue for 90 minutes and then let Captain Metropolis have it at the end.

 

If I remember, Dr. Manhattan was an NPC, but they did include his write-up. I still have a DC Heroes to Champions converter in some old Adventurers Club somewhere. It might be interesting to see that build.

[CGlied]

Re: Watchmen: A GM's tale...or why we set campaign limits

 

Nothing to add. Just want to point out that yet again, I am where posts go to die.

[Split Decision]

Re: Watchmen: A GM's tale...or why we set campaign limits

 

I never had the Watchmen supplement. The main boxed set adventure had the JLI and I was unimpressed- it was neither funny nor exciting as I recall. So I never persued any of the other source material.

[nexus]

Re: Watchmen: A GM's tale...or why we set campaign limits

 

Rule of X is system to help control the power of characters, without having to set a bunch of hard caps. This allows character to specialize in a certain area by neglecting other areas (for example, making yourself a very high damage blaster that is maybe slower or less accurate than his team mates)

 

It's also a decent way to eyeball a batch of characters for potential power imbalances, even in games that don't outright use the rule.

 

It's explained in the Champions book.

 

Personally, I like the Rule of X more than Hard caps. It seems to bring a bit more variety to the table. Hard caps with experienced players generally means all the character look the "same" mechanically (though have differing special effects) so there's less team work and tactics generated by covering each others weaknesses and exploiting individual strengths.

 

ROX isn't perfect of course.

[Balabanto]

Re: Watchmen: A GM's tale...or why we set campaign limits

 

I've always liked hard caps better, as long as there's a kind of accepted fairness level. Unfortunately, my players sometimes complain to me that X or Y's character is too powerful. This makes for even more problems. Rule of X preserves shtick at the cost of the speed of combat. In a roleplaying situation, if one guy has SPD 8 and another guy has SPD 4, the SPD 8 guy is spending twice as much time describing his actions as the other people, while everyone else snoozes.

 

The hard caps provide a tighter SPD range, usually 4-6 or 5-7, and make people feel like there's a little more equality between the players.

 

If you want combat to go faster, use hard caps. If you want shtick to be preserved better, use Rule of X.