Split Decision Posted March 21, 2009 Report Share Posted March 21, 2009 Re: Who homages the Watchmen or those the Watchmen homaged? The Serpent Saucer seems like it might have been an homage to Archie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenn Posted March 21, 2009 Report Share Posted March 21, 2009 Re: Who homages the Watchmen or those the Watchmen homaged? Who Frauds the Fraudulent? Nathan Ford and the Leverage team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanderer Posted March 21, 2009 Report Share Posted March 21, 2009 Re: Who homages the Watchmen or those the Watchmen homaged? What? No. Ozy didn't "cause a problem" getting Manhattan to leave, that was his intended result, either a: to make the aliens a credible threat or b: because Manhattan might not have gone along with the plan because he was still too squeamish, depending on which version you're looking at.. But again, there would be no need of the aliens fake plan whatsoever, if Manhattan stays and continues to make a Soviet nuclear attack impossible. Hence, no nuclear war, no threat for the world. And the world wasn't safer under Manhattan's watch... that's what accelerated the arms race to the point of open war, let to Vietnam becoming a state, etc. And he didn't do anyting about Ozy at all, did he? But it was Ozzy's delusion that the status quo was leading to a nuclear war. In the real world of the setting, the Soviet Union was bound to collapse within a few years anyway, under the weight of its economic inefficiency, rebelliousness of its subjects, and exorbitant military expenditure. Nuclear war as an option was impossible for the Soviets anyway: Manhattan would stop 99.99% of their nukes, and the American second strike + Manhattan's own retaliation would utterly annihilate the Soviet bloc with trivial damages to the rest of the world. It would not be MAD in any way, it would be the Soviets choosing nuclear suicide by cop. Either the Commies accept the collapse of their society or committ suicide, the rest of the world endures, free from the Communist threat forevermore. And anyway, most likely the Soviets choose the rational solution and accept their defeat. Hence, Watchmen's Cold War can only end in an outcome most similar to RL, but better. No nuclear destruction of the world, the Free World triumphant. And Manhattan stays around and keeps providing his miracles, which have already advanced technology and diminished environmental problems considerably. Only a delusional paranoid megalomanic could think the farfetched alien fake scheme with Manhattan's permanent exile would be a better solution. The truth was that Ozzy subconsciously hated the society he lived in, it made him feel alienated and unnecessary, so he conceived a non-existent threat to the world in order to have a justification for his world-conquest scheme. And by the way, why Vietnam statehood would be a bad outcome ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba smith Posted March 21, 2009 Report Share Posted March 21, 2009 Re: Who homages the Watchmen or those the Watchmen homaged? good question wanderer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKJAM! Posted March 21, 2009 Report Share Posted March 21, 2009 Re: Who homages the Watchmen or those the Watchmen homaged? And thus we see the problem with the "smartest man in the world" concept. Ozy sees a problem (whether or not it actually exists) and comes up with a solution that puts him at the center of it, because he's the smartest man in the world, and therefore best qualified to implement such a plan. And he doesn't get any outside input on this plan because a) he's the smartest man in the world, and no one else could possibly have the smarts to spot the flaws in his plan if he can't; and if he reveals the plan before it's fully implemented, Dr. Manhattan might become aware of it too early, and the plan relies on Doc not knowing what's going on until after it's too late to stop. When, if he had bothered to check with anyone, they might have been able to use their common sense to spot the logic errors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest steamteck Posted March 21, 2009 Report Share Posted March 21, 2009 Re: Who homages the Watchmen or those the Watchmen homaged? No I'd say the Comedian offing Woodward and Burnstein thus preventing Watergate and giving Nixon the four more years he wanted lead to open war, since in the real world better Presidents (relatively speaking) were able to avoid that. . On the other hand maybe the press wouldn't have become so adversarial with the Govt and everyone. Particulary in war this would have made many many things go much better. For example Japan sent hot air balloons with bombs over the the us but the few that hit they went unreported so the Japanese gave up. Military plans weren't all over the airwaves before execution .etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Posted March 21, 2009 Report Share Posted March 21, 2009 Re: Who homages the Watchmen or those the Watchmen homaged? On the other hand maybe the press wouldn't have become so adversarial with the Govt and everyone. Particulary in war this would have made many many things go much better. For example Japan sent hot air balloons with bombs over the the us but the few that hit they went unreported so the Japanese gave up. Military plans weren't all over the airwaves before execution .etc. I don't know, I think a free pass does more good then harm and I for one am glad that Woodward and Burnstein exposed corruption in the highest office of the United States. Clearly in the context of the story, the prevention of Watergate was a very bad thing indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywind Posted March 21, 2009 Report Share Posted March 21, 2009 Re: Who homages the Watchmen or those the Watchmen homaged? Not one of us had ever heard of the Watchmen when we were playing Champions back in the day, but one guy we played with seemed to make nothing but unconscious Sally Jupiter homages... Looking back, it feels like Moore stole the idea from him! I'm personally in the same boat as many who have commented here - I tend to really geek out on characters who are essentially normal, but the peak of normal, or at least really close to it. It kinda irked me that in the Champions books, Teleios with his 30 stats is listed as being the perfect human... Why? Who Commodes the Commodities? Who Annuls the Annuities? Who Frauds the Fraudulent? Why aren't forgeries made at a forge? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csyphrett Posted March 22, 2009 Report Share Posted March 22, 2009 Re: Who homages the Watchmen or those the Watchmen homaged? And thus we see the problem with the "smartest man in the world" concept. Ozy sees a problem (whether or not it actually exists) and comes up with a solution that puts him at the center of it, because he's the smartest man in the world, and therefore best qualified to implement such a plan. And he doesn't get any outside input on this plan because a) he's the smartest man in the world, and no one else could possibly have the smarts to spot the flaws in his plan if he can't; and if he reveals the plan before it's fully implemented, Dr. Manhattan might become aware of it too early, and the plan relies on Doc not knowing what's going on until after it's too late to stop. When, if he had bothered to check with anyone, they might have been able to use their common sense to spot the logic errors. Like any evil overlord he should have asked a five year old, right? CES Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Split Decision Posted March 22, 2009 Report Share Posted March 22, 2009 Re: Who homages the Watchmen or those the Watchmen homaged? Ozy's main weakness is hubris. Classic master villain problem. Another note: My CoH avatar is a Comedian homage. He's crude and stupid like Comedian, but he doesn't smoke or use guns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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