350 point jedi?

[knuckles]

Hey guys, while i work on the stats for my own 350 pt jedi, has anyone else attempted this or is there a thread i should be aware of about character creating jedi's?

 

Obviously my first port of call would be the lightsabre, is it a basic 1 1/2 d6 AP HKA no str modifier weapon or do i build it like a multipool, EB no range, hka, missle deflection

 

then theres the force powers

 

I was working of the old WEG force powers set, control sense and alter

 

3 multi pools

 

Control would have the physical traits, enhanced running, leaping and the absorb energy and aid to lightsabre damage

 

sense would be the precog, post cog, telepathy, mind control etc but i was unsure how to go about gestures and incantaions, obviously some powers will and other wont have these limitations

 

and alter would be the 'fun' powers, force lighting, force choke, tk, force push etc

 

any suggestions are welcome, hopefully have a basic working sheet up soon.

 

cheers

[Peregrine]

Re: 350 point jedi?

 

For all the HERO Jedi stuff you could ever want, check here.

[bubba smith]

Re: 350 point jedi?

 

shouldn't this be in the star hero forum?

[assault]

Re: 350 point jedi?

 

Unfortunately not.

 

The frequency with which people want to play Jedi in Champions games is quite disturbing.

 

The other bizarre but common mismatches are fantasy style Dwarves and Elves.

 

(A fantasy dwarf was actually published in one of the Enemies books way back in the 80s, so I guess the Powers That Were At The Time weren't too horrified by the idea, but I personally don't think much of such characters.)

 

Anyway, I would never allow anyone to play a Jedi in any game I was GMing, and I'd be quite rude if one turned up in a game where I was a player.

[Alibear]

Re: 350 point jedi?

 

Why? What's a Jedi but a fancy sword wielding Martial Artist/Chi power dude?

 

A jedi is just a easy way to describe his power set. He hopefully wouldn't be a 'real jedi' transported from a universe far, far away.

[assault]

Re: 350 point jedi?

 

I wish I had your faith in human nature.

[Alibear]

Re: 350 point jedi?

 

I wish I had your faith in human nature.

 

No, but as a GM I'd say, he's not a real Jedi - he just functions like one. Take it or leave it.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: 350 point jedi?

 

I've never worked up a full Jedi character in HERO terms I did get this far regarding lightsabers and related abilities a couple of years ago:

 

Here's how I would build one from scratch:

(I'm sure it is similar to the published version but I haven't cracked open my copy of Star Hero in over 2 years).

 

edit

 

45 Lightsaber: (Total: 138 Active Cost, 45 Real Cost) Killing Attack - Ranged 1d6, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), No Normal Defense (Force Fields and other Lightsabers; +1), Does BODY (+1) (52 Active Points); OAF (-1), STR Minimum 10 (STR Min. Cannot Add/Subtract Damage; -1), No Range (-1/2), No Knockback (-1/4) (Real Cost: 14) plus Killing Attack - Ranged 1d6, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2), Damage Shield (Offensive; Only vs. targets touching the blade; +3/4), No Normal Defense (Force Fields and other Lightsabers; +1), Does BODY (+1), Continuous (+1) (86 Active Points); OAF (-1), Linked (Killing Attack - Ranged; -1/4), No Knockback (-1/4), Limited Power Power loses about a fourth of its effectiveness (Only vs. objects touching the blade; -1/4) (Real Cost: 31) - END=0

 

edit

 

22 Lightsaber Deflection: Missile Deflection (Any Ranged Attack), Missile Reflection, Reflect At Any Target (50 Active Points); OAF (-1), Linked (Sensitivity to the Force; Lesser Instant Power can be used in any Phase in which greater Constant Power is in use; -1/4)

 

I didn't use the Independent Limitation since a Jedi (if that's the character type using it) would know how to construct a replacement if lost.

 

And in a universe where such weapons exist Jedi would probably need the following abilities just to stay alive:

 

10 Defense Maneuver I-IV

12 +4 with Lightsabers

8 Penalty Skill Levels: +4 vs. Hit Location modifiers with with Lightsabers

5 Rapid Attack (HTH)

 

42 Sensitivity to the Force: Danger Sense (any area, any danger, Analyze, Discriminatory, Function as a Sense) (52 Active Points); Requires A Skill Roll (No Active Point penalty to Skill Roll, RSR Skill is subject to Skill vs. Skill contests; This is to reflect how a powerful Force user can mask himself (The Emperor/Chancelor); -1/4) 11-

 

When used against a non-Jedi the Lightsaber functions as a 2d6 NND HKA that only Martial Maneuvers can add damage to. It can cut through virtually any physical substance (1d6 Damage Shield) given time.

 

The ability to block or deflect nearly any type of attack with such a weapon would seem to dictate a defense first philosophy (delay, block/deflect) when used. Luck doesn't fit into the picture. If a Jedi is fighting vs. another Lightsaber/Force skilled opponent he should be completely in control of how open to counterattack he is via use of CSL's.

[Peregrine]

Re: 350 point jedi?

 

No' date=' but as a GM I'd say, he's not a real Jedi - he just functions like one. Take it or leave it.[/quote']

 

I'm with you, but what difference is there, really? About the only real difference I could think of is no connections to the Star Wars universe or anything else appearing therein. That, and requiring costuming to be different from the robes and cloaks.

[OddHat]

Re: 350 point jedi?

 

One of the most entertaining characters in my longest running Champions campaign started out as a Jedi tribute. He was a gadgetteer with the limited ability to create working versions of any science-based device he saw in a live action movie. Couldn't build devices from TV or animation, or items that were explicitly magical. Started with a Lightsaber, a Phaser and a suit of Stormtrooper armor, and got more entertaining from there. The player ran him for around 13 years.

 

Every time he wanted to add something to his gadget pool, we had to sit down and watch the movie.

[Peregrine]

Re: 350 point jedi?

 

One of the most entertaining characters in my longest running Champions campaign started out as a Jedi tribute. He was a gadgetteer with the limited ability to create working versions of any science-based device he saw in a live action movie. Couldn't build devices from TV or animation, or items that were explicitly magical. Started with a Lightsaber, a Phaser and a suit of Stormtrooper armor, and got more entertaining from there. The player ran him for around 13 years.

 

Every time he wanted to add something to his gadget pool, we had to sit down and watch the movie.

 

And that's an example of how it can be done without "transplanting a Jedi".

[ghost-angel]

Re: 350 point jedi?

 

The other bizarre but common mismatches are fantasy style Dwarves and Elves.

 

(A fantasy dwarf was actually published in one of the Enemies books way back in the 80s, so I guess the Powers That Were At The Time weren't too horrified by the idea, but I personally don't think much of such characters.)

 

I woulda thought the same thing, but done right... hooboy.

 

In one of the Hero Central Champions campaigns I'm in one of the characters is literally a Dwarf magically teleported from a fantasy realm.

 

And wow is it funny. The plays him completely straight and is filtering our modern world right through a Fantasy Filter.

 

A powered armor character is a Paladin, my character is Russian and Elven from where the dwarf originates is Russian here - so obviously I'm an elf. We just fought a powered-armor enemy who is "an evil wizard"... really. it's a level of entertainment you can't buy anywhere.

[Kestrel]

Re: 350 point jedi?

 

If it's done right, any character can work. As ghost angel says, the dwarf is pretty entertaining so far. (I'm playing Iron Angel, the "paladin".)

 

Years ago, I played a dragon from an ancient age and he was a lot of fun. He became associated with the local super team (the PC's) and was given a salary to be a part of the subsidized team. (He called it tribute.) He thought San Francisco was his domain, since it was the territory he protected. He liked watching MTV and became a big fan of punk rock, because he thought the rockers were descended from the warrior bards of his age.

 

Vercetorix: "They are great warriors who know no fear! Look at how they ritually scar themselves! That is true dedication!"

 

As for Jedi; all it takes is one spatial anomaly and a crashed ship to strand one. Of course nobody is going to actually believe he IS one, but that wouldn't make him any less of one. IF the character is played right and built right.

 

Bystander: "What're you waving your hand around like that? You think you're some kinda Jedi?"

 

Jedi: "Well, actually... yes."

 

Bystander: "Yeah right. Seek help, pal."

[knuckles]

Re: 350 point jedi?

 

First of all, my heartfelt thanks to peregrine, alibear and hyperman for their genuine helpful advice. With that in mind I can set to work on this character.

 

In my campaign what the players want to play is important to me, if they're not happy with their character then I’m my opinion the game suffers, so when one of the players character was written out of the story I asked what archetype would he like to try, brick, blaster etc, when he said he'd like to try the mentalist thing is said sure, so we got brainstorming and as the conversation went the Jedi angle came into play, I saw his eyes light up, I figured why not, of course it won’t be star wars Jedi tm it’ll be like someone mentioned martial artist/ mentalist hybrid.

 

To those of you who felt it necessary to admonish and heap your scorn on me, I feel it’s my right to defend myself. I’m sorry I can’t spend all day on these forums reading every thread and posting on them too, I have a job, wife and a life that takes up the majority of my day. Its painfully apparent to me with my low rep and minimal posts that my opinion or 'voice' is viewed with lesser respect than a member with thousands of posts and rep to match. It was never my intention to cause anyone upset or to challenge your sensibilities.

 

I didn’t in my original question ask, 'hey guys, how would I go about making a Jedi, oh and by the way feel free to judge me as a lesser human being while you’re at it"

 

So you needn't worry, I thought this was a 'community' of people who shared a passion for hero games/champion's etc but what I’ve discovered is a clique society, alpha geeks if you like, and that I’m pleased to say is something I can quite happily live without.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: 350 point jedi?

 

Please post the character when you're done.

[Tasha]

Re: 350 point jedi?

 

This is a slightly up powered Character that I ran for a Star Wars game that translated the characters from the StarWars d20 Rule set. I did make some adjustments to make the character more "Champions Playable"

 

In the Campaign she is a "Jedi Consular" which is a Jedi that is more into introspective Force abilities and not so much about combat. She was our Ship's engineer. She believed that the Force flowed through all things, including Mechanical items. Her Species is "Miraluka" which is a species that is so in tune to the force that they stopped using their eyes, eventually evolving in such a way that they didn't even have eyes anymore.

 

Tasha

Enjoy!

 

PS she isn't totally balanced, as she isn't really for play .

 

Also I toned down the light saber to make it Champions friendly, also I added a second mode (training mode) that allows the Jedi to use an attack that isn't a KA. Though I should have made it Armor Piercing as well. Also the Saber is Restrainable, because most Jedi don't lose their saber (or not for long). If you character is unlucky as Aniken then Remove Restrainable and replace it with OAF LightSaber.

----

Seramia Popuah

 

Player: Tasha

 

Val Char Cost

13 STR 3

20 DEX 30

15 CON 10

15 BODY 10

18 INT 8

18 EGO 16

13 PRE 3

14 COM 2

 

5/21 PD 2

4/20 ED 1

4 SPD 10

6 REC 0

34 END 2

30 STUN 0

 

6" RUN 0

2" SWIM 0

5 1/2" LEAP 0

Characteristics Cost: 97

 

Cost Power

13 Force Abilties: Elemental Control, 40-point powers, (20 Active Points); all slots Requires A Force Skill Roll (-1/2)

9 1) Telepathy 8d6 (Organic Life and Machine Minds classes of minds) (50 Active Points); Language Barrier (-1/2), Stops Working If Mentalist Is Stunned (-1/2), Requires A Skill Roll (-1/2), Does Not Provide Mental Awareness (-1/4), Concentration (1/2 DCV; -1/4), Extra Time (Delayed Phase, -1/4)

11 2) Jedi Mind Tricks: Mind Control 8d6 (40 Active Points); Requires A Skill Roll (-1/2), Does Not Provide Mental Awareness (-1/4)

10 3) Active Lightsaber Defense: Force Field (16 PD/16 ED), Reduced Endurance (1/2 END; +1/4) (40 Active Points); Restrainable (Requires an activated Light Saber; -1/2), Requires A Force Skill Roll (-1/2)

11 4) Force Inspiration: +4 Overall (40 Active Points); Requires A Force Skill Roll (-1/2), Costs Endurance (Only Costs END to Activate; -1/4)

8 5) Force Heal: Healing BODY 4d6 (40 Active Points); Extra Time (Extra Phase, -3/4), Requires A Skill Roll (-1/2), Concentration (1/2 DCV; -1/4)

11 6) Move Object: Telekinesis (20 STR), Fine Manipulation (40 Active Points); Requires A Skill Roll (-1/2), Extra Time (Delayed Phase, Only to Activate, -1/4)

15 7) Danger Sense (general area, any danger, Discriminatory, Function as a Sense) (42 Active Points); Requires A Force Skill Roll (-1/2) 15-/13-

30 See Force (Miraluka Sight): Detect A Class Of Things (The Force) 16-/14- (Mystic Group), Discriminatory, Increased Arc Of Perception (240 Degrees), Range, Sense, Targeting

4 Light Saber Defense: +2 with DCV (10 Active Points); OAF (Activated LightSaber; -1), Requires A Skill Roll (Must be rolled vs every attack deflected; -1/2)

5 Force Leap: Leaping +3" (5 1/2" forward, 2 1/2" upward) (Accurate) (8 Active Points); Requires A Skill Roll (-1/2)

6 Alertness: +2 PER with all Sense Groups

47 LightSaber: Multipower, 70-point reserve, (70 Active Points); all slots Restrainable (-1/2)

3u 1) Killing Attack - Ranged 3d6-1, Reduced Endurance (1/2 END; +1/4), Armor Piercing (+1/2) (70 Active Points); No Range (-1/2), Restrainable (-1/2)

3u 2) (Training Mode): Energy Blast 12d6 (vs. ED) (60 Active Points); No Range (-1/2), Restrainable (-1/2)

2u 3) Active LightSaber Defense: Missile Deflection (Any Ranged Attack), Missile Reflection (40 Active Points); Requires A Skill Roll (-1/2), Restrainable (-1/2)

Powers Cost: 188

 

 

Cost Skill

3 Persuasion 12-

6 Computer Programming (Computer Networks, Personal Computers, Droids) 13-

1 Systems Operation 8-

4 Weaponsmith (Energy Weapons, Firearms, LightSabers) 13-

3 Mechanics 13-

1 Inventor 8-

3 Electronics 13-

3 Conversation 12-

5 TF: Common Motorized Ground Vehicles, Science Fiction & Space Vehicles, SCUBA

3 Linguist

3 1) Language: Basic (idiomatic) (4 Active Points)

2 2) Language: Binary (completely fluent; literate) (4 Active Points); Limited Power Power loses about a third of its effectiveness (Cannot speak Language; -1/2)

2 3) Language: Cerean (completely fluent) (3 Active Points)

0 4) Language: Miralukan (idiomatic; literate) (5 Active Points)

2 5) Language: Rodese (completely fluent) (3 Active Points)

3 Scholar

2 1) KS: Jedi Lore/History (INT-based) (3 Active Points) 13-

2 2) KS: Starship Systems (INT-based) (3 Active Points) 13-

2 3) KS: The Force (INT-based) (3 Active Points) 13-

3 Jack of All Trades

2 1) PS: Electronic Devices (INT-based) (3 Active Points) 13-

2 2) PS: Light Saber Crafting (INT-based) (3 Active Points) 13-

2 3) PS: Spacehand (INT-based) (3 Active Points) 13-

2 4) PS: Sublight Drives and Hyperdrives (INT-based) (3 Active Points) 13-

3 SS: Physics (INT-based) 13-

5 SS: Starship Engineering (Repair) (INT-based) 15-

7 Power: The Force (EGO-based) 15-

1 Analyze: Force abilties 8-

4 WF: Energy Weapons, Blades, Clubs, Fist-Loads, LightSaber, Unarmed Combat

Skills Cost: 81

 

 

 

Total Character Cost: 366

 

Pts. Disadvantage

5 Physical Limitation: Blind with Normal Sight (Infrequently; Slightly Impairing)

5 Distinctive Features: Miraluka (no Eyes) (Easily Concealed; Always Noticed and Causes Major Reaction; Detectable By Commonly-Used Senses; Not Distinctive In Some Cultures)

10 Distinctive Features: Force Sensitive (Not Concealable; Always Noticed and Causes Major Reaction; Detectable By Uncommonly-Used Senses; Not Distinctive In Some Cultures)

15 Psychological Limitation: Jedi Code of Honor (Common; Strong)

5 Psychological Limitation: Likes to Tinker with Technology (Uncommon; Moderate)

15 Psychological Limitation: Must help those in need (Innocents) (Common; Strong)

Disadvantage Points: 55

Base Points: 200

Experience Required: 111

Total Experience Available: 0

Experience Unspent: 0

[Peregrine]

Re: 350 point jedi?

 

First of all, my heartfelt thanks to peregrine, alibear and hyperman for their genuine helpful advice. With that in mind I can set to work on this character.

 

In my campaign what the players want to play is important to me, if they're not happy with their character then I’m my opinion the game suffers, so when one of the players character was written out of the story I asked what archetype would he like to try, brick, blaster etc, when he said he'd like to try the mentalist thing is said sure, so we got brainstorming and as the conversation went the Jedi angle came into play, I saw his eyes light up, I figured why not, of course it won’t be star wars Jedi tm it’ll be like someone mentioned martial artist/ mentalist hybrid.

 

To those of you who felt it necessary to admonish and heap your scorn on me, I feel it’s my right to defend myself. I’m sorry I can’t spend all day on these forums reading every thread and posting on them too, I have a job, wife and a life that takes up the majority of my day. Its painfully apparent to me with my low rep and minimal posts that my opinion or 'voice' is viewed with lesser respect than a member with thousands of posts and rep to match. It was never my intention to cause anyone upset or to challenge your sensibilities.

 

I didn’t in my original question ask, 'hey guys, how would I go about making a Jedi, oh and by the way feel free to judge me as a lesser human being while you’re at it"

 

So you needn't worry, I thought this was a 'community' of people who shared a passion for hero games/champion's etc but what I’ve discovered is a clique society, alpha geeks if you like, and that I’m pleased to say is something I can quite happily live without.

 

Speaking for myself, I can't see where a "transplanted Jedi" would work in a Champions game story-wise, as the Force is so strongly integral to the Star Wars setting that it determines morality for everyone in the setting, Force-user or not. Without the Force, the Jedi aren't the Jedi.

 

However, a similar powerset (as you mentioned, mentalist/martial artist) lies well within scope for Champions.

[Tasha]

Re: 350 point jedi?

 

Speaking for myself' date=' I can't see where a "transplanted Jedi" would work in a Champions game story-wise, as the Force is so strongly integral to the Star Wars setting that it [i']determines morality[/i] for everyone in the setting, Force-user or not. Without the Force, the Jedi aren't the Jedi.

 

However, a similar powerset (as you mentioned, mentalist/martial artist) lies well within scope for Champions.

 

But really is the Force that much different than Eastern belief about Chi? If you can bring youself to think that The Force = Chi, then you have a good basis for the character working in a Champions universe.

 

I am not sure that I agree that the Force determines the morality of everyone in the Setting. Current Jedi beliefs do determine how Jedi act. I don't think that Jedi beliefs made Han Solo do anything he didn't want to do to begin with. IMHO that makes Jedi no different than many Martial Artist Monks. The main difference is that Jedi have the "glow stick" (Light Saber), and exist in a SciFi setting.

 

Honestly I would allow it. Characters that are brought over from other Genres can be quite fun. They tend to eventually lose their "difference" over the longrun and will blend in with the other Heroes.

 

Tasha

[ghost-angel]

Re: 350 point jedi?

 

I didn’t in my original question ask' date=' 'hey guys, how would I go about making a Jedi, oh and by the way feel free to judge me as a lesser human being while you’re at it"[/quote']

 

Speaking for myself, and the few who have posted in this thread and many I know on the board who haven't - worry not, we got yer back hoss.

 

Jedi away!

[Alibear]

Re: 350 point jedi?

 

I don't think you need to defend yourself, Knuckles.

[TheQuestionMan]

Re: 350 point jedi?

 

Star Wars Hero Resources

http://herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30644

 

[Compilation] "to Star HERO Conversions & Adaptations"

http://herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24969

 

 

Cheers

 

 

QM

[bubba smith]

Re: 350 point jedi?

 

But really is the Force that much different than Eastern belief about Chi? If you can bring youself to think that The Force = Chi, then you have a good basis for the character working in a Champions universe.

 

I am not sure that I agree that the Force determines the morality of everyone in the Setting. Current Jedi beliefs do determine how Jedi act. I don't think that Jedi beliefs made Han Solo do anything he didn't want to do to begin with. IMHO that makes Jedi no different than many Martial Artist Monks. The main difference is that Jedi have the "glow stick" (Light Saber), and exist in a SciFi setting.

 

Honestly I would allow it. Characters that are brought over from other Genres can be quite fun. They tend to eventually lose their "difference" over the longrun and will blend in with the other Heroes.

 

Tasha

ttou're right about the force ch connection, when susano wrote the current NINJA HERO he reffered to star wars as and i quote a "martial arts movie st in outer space with the force standing in for chi"

[Peregrine]

Re: 350 point jedi?

 

But really is the Force that much different than Eastern belief about Chi? If you can bring youself to think that The Force = Chi, then you have a good basis for the character working in a Champions universe.

 

I am not sure that I agree that the Force determines the morality of everyone in the Setting. Current Jedi beliefs do determine how Jedi act. I don't think that Jedi beliefs made Han Solo do anything he didn't want to do to begin with. IMHO that makes Jedi no different than many Martial Artist Monks. The main difference is that Jedi have the "glow stick" (Light Saber), and exist in a SciFi setting.

 

Honestly I would allow it. Characters that are brought over from other Genres can be quite fun. They tend to eventually lose their "difference" over the longrun and will blend in with the other Heroes.

 

Tasha

 

Continuing the threadjack:

 

The Force is not simply "Jedi beliefs", nor is it merely a passive "energy field". The Force is an active agent in the setting, working both on its own and through its willing agents, Jedi and other Force-users. In essence, the Force is a nonpersonified diety in the Star Wars setting; one that, like any other deity, sets its own standards of morality to which mortals are held accountable.

 

Back to thread:

 

I have no problem with a "glow-stick mentalist/martial artist" in a Champions game; heck, I'd like to play one myself one of these days. But there is a problem with transplanted characters from any non-supers source - what Champions calls the Code vs Killing (CvK). That is such a central trope of the superhero genre but is virtually nonexistent in other genres. (Even a D&D-style paladin has no qualms about killing enemies.) So bringing in a character from another genre means either A. violating the other genre's standards or B. making the CvK trope a front-and-center issue in your story. Personally, I dislike A, as it seems a cop-out. And I've had enough of B. to last me a while. So, for myself, unless someone can show me an option C (and I'm willing to entertain the possibility that such an option does exist), I'm inclined to disallow outright genre transplants.

[ghost-angel]

Re: 350 point jedi?

 

Aside from jumping all over the whole Jedi/Star Wars/Ch'i schtick thing...

 

The word Jedi conveys a commonly grasped sense of effects and capabilities. When someone says they want to create a "Jedi" you immediately - amongst your typical gamer geek crowd - have an idea of what the character is going to be able to do.

 

It's a terminology of convenience. Whether the game itself gets into the whole Force As Persona/Moral Compass schtick - or never goes beyond glowy sticks and black clothing and waving hands mojo is absolutely irrelevant to the request of "Hey, how do I build a Jedi on 350 points?"

 

So why don't we all just step away from the "believability" edge of a moment, because unless you're IN the game in question you have no idea how appropriate the concept is - and no damn right to jump on someone for wanting it.

[pinecone]

Re: 350 point jedi?

 

Hey guys, while i work on the stats for my own 350 pt jedi, has anyone else attempted this or is there a thread i should be aware of about character creating jedi's?

 

Obviously my first port of call would be the lightsabre, is it a basic 1 1/2 d6 AP HKA no str modifier weapon or do i build it like a multipool, EB no range, hka, missle deflection

 

then theres the force powers

 

I was working of the old WEG force powers set, control sense and alter

 

3 multi pools

 

Control would have the physical traits, enhanced running, leaping and the absorb energy and aid to lightsabre damage

 

sense would be the precog, post cog, telepathy, mind control etc but i was unsure how to go about gestures and incantaions, obviously some powers will and other wont have these limitations

 

and alter would be the 'fun' powers, force lighting, force choke, tk, force push etc

 

any suggestions are welcome, hopefully have a basic working sheet up soon.

 

cheers

 

I wrote one up for my son...I went with the old reliable Multi-power (62)...not perfect, but plenty good for super-hero'in...