GM's: Post Spell Ideas here for Abuse Testing!

[RadeFox]

This tread idea was spawned by some various threads over the concern of mages getting too powerful in campaigns, or having magical spells being used to unbalance a setting in unforseen ways. The premise is thus:

 

Post a new spell you are considering allowing your PC's to have access to in your game. Complete spell writeups will give you more accurate feedback, but isn't neccessary.

 

The gathered community of Herodom will then use our devious and wily brains to come up with ways the spell may be perverted, twisted, or otherwise used outside the immediately obvious applications the spell was built for.

 

This hopefully, will allow us GM's to then redesign a spell before PC introduction, or at least be ready for the possible effects, and plan accordingly.

[OddHat]

Summon GM, slavishly loyal...

[eepjr24]

Simple spells, complex implications

 

Not sure if this is the gist of the thread or not, but it is always interesting for me to see how others handle certain powers and advantages that can radically alter the campaign setting. IE:

 

Transform (Transmute lead to gold, etc)

Flight, teleport (Effects on transport, war, scouting, etc)

Megascale

Instant Change (I usually make this one extremely rare)

 

Do you allow sweeps with spells? Or do you have the player model them with limited autofire? Or some other method?

 

Do attack spells receive lims for "No spreading or bouncing"?

 

Etc...

 

- Ernie

[lensman]

Cost	Power	END
63	CounterSpell: Dispel 30d6, Limit on Red END 0: When used power costs .5 Red END, Inherent (+1/4), Expanded Effect One At A Time (+1/4), Damage Shield (+1/2), Reduced Endurance 0 END (+1/2), Continuous (+1) (283 Active Points); Limited Power Expertise: 40 (-1), Requires A vrs, Incoming Spell Roll (-1/2), Limited Power Not vrs. MegaScale effects (-1/2), Limited Power Not vrs. Independent Magic (-1/2), Limited Power Only vrs. Ranged effects (-1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Limited Power Does not combine with Other Dispels (-1/4)

Powers Cost: 63

 

Note: 4 pts. / 1 d6 of Dispel cost to Increase

 

3 awards: 10 d6 / 20 d6 / 30 d6

 

The only sleight of hand I used is a custom adder applied to the reduced END 0, to reflect a limit on Red END 0., Power costs Red END .5 when used.

In this way the power costs zero END to maintain but does cost END to use.

 

At higher mastery of Magic, Warlocks can use skill alone to unravel incoming spells. Counterspell above is a package ability for Warlocks whoi have specialized in fields, met mimum experoence preq, and stat and magic skill mins.

[austenandrews]

I've achieved some ridiculous effects with Suppress and Continuing Charges. Unlike Drain, with Suppress there's no limit to how many points can be taken away. When you add in Continuing Charges with a duration longer than the average battle (5 minutes works well enough) you wind up with something like an unlimited Drain effect. On 45AP I built an attack that reduces an opponent's SPD by 1 every time they get hit. It was more of an exercise than a serious spell, and of course the GM rejected it, but it points up how abusable Suppress can be.

 

-AA

[Old Man]

Conversely, regular drains and transfers are just too expensive to be cost effective in a heroic campaign.

[Markdoc]

Actually, regular drains and suppresses (and aid) can be very,very effective indeed in heroic level games, but with the catch that you should concentrate on increasing the upper limit, not the number of dice.

 

That means that the drain (or whatever) takes a while to fire up, but conversely, since FH characteristics are generally low, they can have quite an effect. As noted, combine this with continuous and uncontrollable and hoo boy! Watch out!

 

What's especially nasty (and therefore beloved of me as a GM) is a transfer that adds half the points to whatever is being transferred (so, for example SPD to caster's SPD) and half to the transfer it self to increase the upper limit. Combine that with area effect and you get this nifty spell where the targets get slowly slower and slower while the transfer gets bigger and faster....

 

cheers, Mark

[Jeff]

Originally posted by Markdoc

Actually, regular drains and suppresses (and aid) can be very,very effective indeed in heroic level games, but with the catch that you should concentrate on increasing the upper limit, not the number of dice.

Indeed. Remember to decrease the fade rate too; since you're going to be taking a number of repeated applications to get up there, you don't want to be losing most of the early hits before you're finished.

 

This applies more to Aids than Drains, since Drain hasn't got a limit. But Drains can be very handy dropping those low heroic level characteristics into negative values, below STR minima, DEX to silly CV's, or SPD for an easy 25-50% drop in phases available. As an added benefit, Power Defense is very, very rare, so the tiny Drains need little fear defenses.

[austenandrews]

Okay, here's one more in the spirit of the thread. I wrote this up awhile back but haven't run it in my game yet. I know it's a potentially risky construct. Maybe you Herophiles can help me avoid any obvious pitfalls.

 

My fantasy campaign includes a class of magicians named Eldwrights who work with magic ores. A big part of their orecraft is called Enchant. As the name suggests, this ability imparts magic properties to an object.

 

The mechanic for this is Transform. It uses the rules for granting new Powers (5E p.153). In brief, Enchant is a 2d6 Major Transform, All-or-Nothing. As per the rules, Enchanting requires +1 Transform effect for every 5 points of the Power added. (I bend the definition of Transform to have more arbitrary control over the numbers; instead of BODY I use a custom stat called Essence. Ores also have intrinsic Power Defense, which I call Complexity.)

 

Anyway, that's the setup. Already you'll notice that since Enchant is based on Transform, Eldwrights have the ability to create a theoretically infinite quantity of magic items. I control this by (a) setting large time requirements for Enchanting and ( only allowing enchanted ores ("elderliths") to be enchanted, and then controlling the supply of elderliths. Please tell me how the players will blindside me with this risky construct!

 

Also, since I'm not insane, I only allow Enchantments which I have written up for game balance (the players can't make up their own as they go). You can guess the usual gamut of effects - extra Damage Classes, Armor, light, flaming Damage Shield, etc.

 

There's one Enchantment, though, that has great potential for creativity, but may also have great potential for abuse. Please tell me how it can be munchkin-ed, so I'll be more prepared when I unleash it on my campaign.

 

The effect is called Animate. It changes the shape of the magic object. For instance, a magic hinge might change shape to open and close a door. A magic shackle might change between locked and unlocked. A magic cord might coil and uncoil. A magic weapon might change from a sword to a dagger. There's another Enchantment called Trigger (the naked Advantage) that would usually be cast with Animate (for instance, opening the door when someone walks in front of it, or changing the type of weapon with a code word).

 

Animate is bought as TK, Fine Manipulation, 0 END, No Range, Movement must be defined when Enchantment is cast. It comes in three levels, 2 STR, 10 STR and 40 STR. The STR defines how much force the animation can impart (and if necessary, how much damage it can do). The spellcaster can define whatever movement he wants at the time he casts Animate.

 

I see Animate as a great opportunity for players to be creative. I'm looking forward to being surprised by its many applications. However, I'm well aware that the potential for abuse is high.

 

So, let's say you're in my game and I give you this spell. How would you abuse it?

 

-AA

[AnotherSkip]

hmmm If i could have a sword that changed the angle of the blade to the Quillions fom 90 Deg to 0 Degrees i might be able to get in an attack by using a Trigger based off of a command word. same with like lengthening a Spear for example....

 

Or using the spear trick to get over a wall or similar obstacle (maybe a "free dodge"?) by grabbing onto the head and riding up?

 

 

anyone got any other ideas?

[badger3k]

Bouyancy

 

Here's a spell to keep things floating on the surface:

 

6†Flight

 

Usable as attack (+1), Ranged (+1/2)

 

1 Continuing Charge (5 minutes) (-3/4)

Concentration 1/2 DCV (-1/4)

Focus, OAF (-1)

Gestures (-1/4)

Incantations (-1/4)

Lim: Not in air, only in water/liquids (0)

Lim: Only to float to/on surface, no horizontal movement (-1)

Requires Magic Skill roll (-1/2)

 

Active cost:30, Real cost: 6

 

I wanted to simulate the "life preserver" effect - relatively short duration, uncontrolled movement - it can also work like a fishing net. I swapped the air & water base for a 0 mod since it is unusable in air. Swimming didn't seem right since it is an uncontrollable ascent to the surface - although swimming usable as an attack may work better - the 6" flight can be countered by swimmind downward. The spell does not limit horizontal swimming, it just counters downward motion (both swimming and drowning), nor does it provide any horizontal motion. Megascale movement was another idea, but megascale movement is normally non-combat only (although that can be houseruled i guess). Any thoughts?

[badger3k]

Originally posted by austenandrews

The effect is called Animate. It changes the shape of the magic object. For instance, a magic hinge might change shape to open and close a door. A magic shackle might change between locked and unlocked. A magic cord might coil and uncoil. A magic weapon might change from a sword to a dagger. There's another Enchantment called Trigger (the naked Advantage) that would usually be cast with Animate (for instance, opening the door when someone walks in front of it, or changing the type of weapon with a code word).

 

Animate is bought as TK, Fine Manipulation, 0 END, No Range, Movement must be defined when Enchantment is cast. It comes in three levels, 2 STR, 10 STR and 40 STR. The STR defines how much force the animation can impart (and if necessary, how much damage it can do). The spellcaster can define whatever movement he wants at the time he casts Animate.

 

I see Animate as a great opportunity for players to be creative. I'm looking forward to being surprised by its many applications. However, I'm well aware that the potential for abuse is high.

 

So, let's say you're in my game and I give you this spell. How would you abuse it?

 

-AA

 

I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to do with the enchantment.

 

Would this ability allow the basic mechanics of the item to change (such as a sword into a crossbow)?

 

No range would limits its effectiveness in combat (you couldn't use the effect to enchant an opponents sword, for instance) - I'm also assuming that the animate effect is already on an item (such as a character's sword). When you define movement, would that allow things like the "dancing sword" effect (to me that would require range - i'd prob go with a "must touch object to be animated" limitation with the TK range used for the movement limits - that or is the TK built with a focus limitation)?

 

Also, what are the limitations on time - at 0 END can it be always on, does the caster/user have to concentrate, or is there some other time limit (continuing charges maybe)? Similarly, does using the item count as a regualr action for the character?

 

I don't know - the TK seems to be limited for doing a large variety of things - you could also use a VPP or even transform/multiform on the item being used.

[austenandrews]

Originally posted by badger3k

I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to do with the enchantment.

 

Would this ability allow the basic mechanics of the item to change (such as a sword into a crossbow)?

 

The spell is used to make magic items. Casting it requires hours or days, so it's not a combat effect. It begins as a Transform, which is essentially "Transform Object to Animated Object." The animation can be anything, such as "open door to closed door" or "a sword that turns into a crossbow and back." A Trigger enchantment is then used to allow the object to animate on command. The idea is that once the magic item is made, theoretically anyone can use it; the item exists all on its own, independent of the caster.

 

The reasoning behind TK is this: Normal objects don't exert any force, but animated objects can (closing a door, clicking a lock, etc.). I decided that this constitutes "adding a Power" to the object, and the best power is TK. (I suppose I could have used STR instead, but that seemed odd.) When the Trigger activates the animation, the TK occurs and the Special Effect is that the object changes shape. (No Range simply means that the Triggered TK operates on and around the magic object itself; the TK doesn't extend out from the object.)

 

Example: A wizard wants to create a magic lock that opens at a spoken command. He uses Animate to Transform "a lump of magic metal" into "a lock that unlocks itself." The game mechanic is a 10 STR TK w/Fine Manipulation to push the lock mechanism open in the same way as a key. He then adds a Trigger enchantment, "open lock when code word is spoken."

 

Example: A wizard wants to make a magic gear that turns by itself. He uses Animate to Transform "a lump of magic metal" into "a gear that turns by itself." The game mechanic is a 40 STR TK to rotate the gear. Now he has a useful component for many types of machines.

 

Example: A wizard wants to make a sword that turns into a crossbow on command. He uses Animate to Transform "a lump of magic metal" into "a sword that turns into a crossbow and back again" (plus a Trigger for the command word). The only game effect is a 2 STR TK that pushes objects out of the way when the sword changes. (This is something of a technicality, though important in some cases. If the sword is sheathed, for instance, the 2 STR TK wouldn't be enough to break the scabbard to allow the change to happen. A 40 STR TK would break the scabbard.)

 

I wrote Animate this way because I want to give players the opportunity to be very creative. This spell could be used for countless applications. As a GM I want to be surprised and delighted.

 

My concern is that it might be -too- versatile. For instance, it could be used to create "a pill that transforms into a dagger" and you could knife someone from inside their stomach. Obviously I wouldn't allow effects like that, but to control such abuse I need to see it coming. So hopefully you guys can concoct some abuses for me, to get me prepared.

 

-AA

 

P.S. Important limitation: Mass and physical substance are conserved. When the sword transforms into a crossbow, it must be a crossbow constructed of the same mass of the same material.

 

P.P.S. Another important limitation: The spellcaster must actually craft each shape that the object assumes. So in the original example he'd have to be able to make both a sword and a crossbow (using Weaponsmith) before he could fashion the transforming weapon. He'd need to have the Mechanics skill to fashion a gear that turns by itself, and so forth. That way the TK is simply moving/manipulating the object in some way; the Animate spell doesn't have to accomplish anything else. (For example, the Transform doesn't have to add the HKA Power for a sword, because the Weaponsmith skill already does that).

[austenandrews]

Re: Bouyancy

 

Originally posted by badger3k

Here's a spell to keep things floating on the surface:

 

I don't see great potential for abuse here, except in a largely-underwater scenario. If everyone's at the bottom of the ocean and you can send an enemy to the surface (that is, off the battlefield) with ease, it's a bit overpowered. But I expect that's a rare circumstance.

 

There's an interesting mechanics effect here. Since it's bought as Flight, if someone else wants to keep the person from floating up, they have to overcome the person's STR (as normal for a Grab) perhaps modified by the power of the Flight. Should STR even matter? If the person doesn't resist, does that mean it's trivial to keep them down? Or since it's Usable As Attack, is it only the power of the Flight itself that matters? Since the Flight is pretty weak, it seems like it would still be easy to hold the person down. I don't have the book in front of me, and I'm not fluent in the 5E movement rules.

 

However, while that's an odd effect of the mechanic, I think it's a reasonable tradeoff for what is otherwise a fairly useful-and-cheap spell. Presumably it's for saving injured people and keeping objects from sinking. If the person doesn't want to be "saved," it should be easy to overcome.

 

Btw, what's the rule for adding Flight UAA? I assume successive applications of this spell wouldn't increase velocity, right? Just checking.

 

-AA

[badger3k]

Re: Re: Bouyancy

 

Originally posted by austenandrews

I don't see great potential for abuse here, except in a largely-underwater scenario. If everyone's at the bottom of the ocean and you can send an enemy to the surface (that is, off the battlefield) with ease, it's a bit overpowered. But I expect that's a rare circumstance.

 

There's an interesting mechanics effect here. Since it's bought as Flight, if someone else wants to keep the person from floating up, they have to overcome the person's STR (as normal for a Grab) perhaps modified by the power of the Flight. Should STR even matter? If the person doesn't resist, does that mean it's trivial to keep them down? Or since it's Usable As Attack, is it only the power of the Flight itself that matters? Since the Flight is pretty weak, it seems like it would still be easy to hold the person down. I don't have the book in front of me, and I'm not fluent in the 5E movement rules.

 

However, while that's an odd effect of the mechanic, I think it's a reasonable tradeoff for what is otherwise a fairly useful-and-cheap spell. Presumably it's for saving injured people and keeping objects from sinking. If the person doesn't want to be "saved," it should be easy to overcome.

 

Btw, what's the rule for adding Flight UAA? I assume successive applications of this spell wouldn't increase velocity, right? Just checking.

 

-AA

 

Flight usable as attacks was one of the examples given under the UAA description, used to make someone else fly and control how/where they go (they have no control). I don't believe successive applications would apply (I wouldn't let them do so) since it wouldn't if the character had flight (on continuing charges for example). I think it would have to be built in to the base power to do that.

 

I didn't even think of the target using STR when I wrote it, but I did think of using the older movement rule I remember (may have been my GMs home rule - its been over 15 years) - you could apply the appropriate movement power to cancel out (or make opposed checks with AP vs AP or 1d6/1" movement). A target with more than 6" of swimming could dive at 1" speed if he had a 7" swimming basically. Most aquatic creatures or characters have more than 6" anyway.

[badger3k]

Originally posted by austenandrews

The spell is used to make magic items. Casting it requires hours or days, so it's not a combat effect. It begins as a Transform, which is essentially "Transform Object to Animated Object." The animation can be anything, such as "open door to closed door" or "a sword that turns into a crossbow and back." A Trigger enchantment is then used to allow the object to animate on command. The idea is that once the magic item is made, theoretically anyone can use it; the item exists all on its own, independent of the caster.

 

I wrote Animate this way because I want to give players the opportunity to be very creative. This spell could be used for countless applications. As a GM I want to be surprised and delighted.

 

My concern is that it might be -too- versatile. For instance, it could be used to create "a pill that transforms into a dagger" and you could knife someone from inside their stomach. Obviously I wouldn't allow effects like that, but to control such abuse I need to see it coming. So hopefully you guys can concoct some abuses for me, to get me prepared.

 

-AA

 

P.S. Important limitation: Mass and physical substance are conserved. When the sword transforms into a crossbow, it must be a crossbow constructed of the same mass of the same material.

 

P.P.S. Another important limitation: The spellcaster must actually craft each shape that the object assumes. So in the original example he'd have to be able to make both a sword and a crossbow (using Weaponsmith) before he could fashion the transforming weapon. He'd need to have the Mechanics skill to fashion a gear that turns by itself, and so forth. That way the TK is simply moving/manipulating the object in some way; the Animate spell doesn't have to accomplish anything else. (For example, the Transform doesn't have to add the HKA Power for a sword, because the Weaponsmith skill already does that).

 

Given the limitations it seems to me that the actual spell is pretty limited to begin with. Since the character would have to design the original objects, it isn't a very spontaneous-use item. The pill-into-dagger bit is also hard to swallow (sorry ) - getting a pill with the same mass as a dagger to go down would be hard for human-sized creatures (now dragons, maybe).

 

The most likely uses (or abuses) to me would be disguised weapons (no that's just a shield - sching!) Dagggers as keys or lockpicks? A shield that turns into a net/entangle to trap opponents weapons? A helm that can cover the users eyes in case of gaze attacks or flashes? How about a blanket/cloak/etc that turns into an entangle/constriction device? Metal bracers/greaves that grow claws for attacks or climbing/clinging? A cloak that catched missiles or even throws them back? A longbow that becomes a staff - another hidden weapon idea? A sword/spear combo for short and reach attacks? How about a ball that can change into a spiked ball (here - catch!)? A ring that grows blades (on the inside - great to take care of thieves if its command-word operated)?

 

Just a few that occured to me right now.

[Blue Jogger]

Originally posted by austenandrews

So, let's say you're in my game and I give you this spell. How would you abuse it?

 

Well, you got most of the bases covered. Limited ore, Limited effects, and Long Time. Hmm.

 

First, I would try to get more ore. This could get downright dirty if the character has no code. Don't forget theft, lies, and large bribes to get more ore. Be prepared for this. Making enchantments that make money to get more ore will be on this list. Selling machines that help the blacksmith, glass blower, or jeweler for cold coin to buy more ore.

 

Limited effects. A 10 STR telekinesis and a long time can be surprisingly effective. Especially when a trigger causes a large weight or amount of water to move naturally downhill quickly. Instant floods or rock slides makes for an impressive one-shot trick.

 

40 STR TK "power armor" might be fun. But if it is limited to two effects per enchantment, this will be quickly self-defeating.

 

Overall, this one is hard to munchkin. It seems well-thought out.

[Guest Keneton]

Originally posted by lensman

Cost	Power	END
63	CounterSpell: Dispel 30d6, Limit on Red END 0: When used power costs .5 Red END, Inherent (+1/4), Expanded Effect One At A Time (+1/4), Damage Shield (+1/2), Reduced Endurance 0 END (+1/2), Continuous (+1) (283 Active Points); Limited Power Expertise: 40 (-1), Requires A vrs, Incoming Spell Roll (-1/2), Limited Power Not vrs. MegaScale effects (-1/2), Limited Power Not vrs. Independent Magic (-1/2), Limited Power Only vrs. Ranged effects (-1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Limited Power Does not combine with Other Dispels (-1/4)

Powers Cost: 63

 

 

Unless I am reading this wrong, this spell is illegal. Most importantly to be inherent a power must be persistant.

 

I also would never give the limitation vs. Independant spells as these are nearly impossible to dispel anyways. (They have oodles of difficlult to dispel!)