Brainstorming an alternate Europe

[novi]

Trying to flesh out an idea for a campaign world, and could use some help.

 

Basically, among all the other things to throw in, is air pirates. The air part is easy - zeppelins and what not for that. Piracy is a bit harder, since it can't just happen anywhere. Okay, a pulp story only requires that it be cool and exciting, but my standards are somewhat higher. So my adequate explanation is to run it in a world without a unified Germany in the 1920s.

 

As a historical divergence point, I'll take no Otto von Bismarck. This easily leads to all the kingdoms of Germany staying separate. It does make an awful lot of ripples, though.

 

Any thoughts or suggestions on how things would be different is appreciated. Thanks.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Brainstorming an alternate Europe

 

Hmm... well, if we have no united Germany, there probably would not have been a First World War, and that alone would have many ramifications. Austria-Hungary could still be a major European power; the Ottoman Empire might still be tottering along; and Russia could still be Tsarist. The "Lost Generation" of young men killed or traumatized by the war would have been avoided, and Europe could reasonably be more optimistic overall. America might or might not be just as prosperous, but likely more isolationist and less involved in global affairs. Oh, and no League of Nations as a venue for international diplomacy.

 

OTOH the War was a great spur for technological development, particularly in aviation, which would work against the kind of campaign you're going for. I think you'd need some other kind of scientific breakthrough that would make aerial travel easy.

[assault]

Re: Brainstorming an alternate Europe

 

When will your game be set?

 

You could easily postulate different outcomes in the aftermath of WWI. Perhaps Germany fell apart (or was split apart) into its constituent pieces.

 

The Austro-Hungarian Empire could easily have spawned a bunch of different successor states. Yugoslavia might not have come into being. Italy and Turkey could have fallen into anarchy too.

 

I suggest watching Porco Rosso, if you haven't seen it already.

 

And for followup: the Free State of Fiume. You could also split off the Ionian Islands.

[lemming]

Re: Brainstorming an alternate Europe

 

I just read a short "What If?", France had not declared war on Prussia in 1871 which was engineered by Bismark. So no Franco-Prussian war, no WWI as Lord Liaden mentions.

 

Possibly closer relations between Britain & Prussia since there is a marriage link.

 

I think Zeppelin would still have developed his ideas, since he was an observer in the balloon corp of the Union during the US Civil War. I think that flight would still be pursued though not as vigorously. I think as LL said, some of the advances may not have happened without WWI or even the time beforehand with heightening tensions. That may work to your advantage though.

[bubba smith]

Re: Brainstorming an alternate Europe

 

i wonder what kind of adventure randals raiders would have on this world and would their membership have any changes?

[Lawnmower Boy]

Re: Brainstorming an alternate Europe

 

Remember that Prussia was still a great power in its own right.

It's also not quite accurate to say that Germany was not unified. The German Confederation existed to coordinate the foreign and defence policy of the states. The complicating factor is that both Prussia and Austro-Hungary were members, and that the Austro-Hungarian Emperor-King was the permanent President of the council of the Confederation. This led to a fairly permanent rivalry and deadlock within the council between Prussia and Austria --hence the Wars of Unification.

Paul Schroeder has posited that the smaller German powers constituted a residual stabilising dynamic in Great Power politics. As Lord Liaden has already put it more succinctly, no Wars of Unification, no World War One.

 

That said, the Franco-Prussian War also brought down Napoleon III, whose agenda, unbelievable as this may seem in retrospect, included forcing German unification. Had Napoloen and his dynasty survived, the years between 1870 and about 1890 would have been more tumultuous, until if finally became obvious that a unified Germany would overshadow France in world politics.

 

Finally, once the craze for colonies became universal in the 1890s, it is hard to imagine Germans letting themselves be cut out of the game by the weakness of the Confederation. German Unification might still have occurred, on other terms. Or, alternately, Prussia might have entered a period of serious political turmoil in the years around the turn of the century if it couldn't build a navy. (Fischer's "alliance of rye and steel").

 

It's an interesting question, much debated. I wouldn't go overboard with dubious details, just postulate a continued feverish "pre-WWI" environment in the 1920s with wobbly thrones, plots to reunify Germany by blowing up monarchs, and air pirates taking advantage of lawless corners of the world...I personally would get Kerguelen's Land and South Georgia into play somehow, but that's because I'm obsessed...

[Spence]

Re: Brainstorming an alternate Europe

 

One of my favorite methods is to take an existing timeline such as the one in Pulp Hero and then add major divergent event's to shift the 'reality' of the gameworld. I can email you a copy of a rough I did to support a Space Pulp circa 1935. This sounds fun and I have been in the creative dolldrums lately. Brainstorming this tonight might shake my brain loose....

[Silverhawk]

Re: Brainstorming an alternate Europe

 

Of course, one could go a little further back and postulate a Europe where instead of dissolving the Holy Roman Empire to form the Confederation of the Rhine, Napoleon I might have forced Emperor Francis II to cede the crown to him.

 

This would leave Germany fragmented into 300 some odd 'states' some no larger than a single town.

[Tom Carman]

Re: Brainstorming an alternate Europe

 

I think Zeppelin would still have developed his ideas' date=' since he was an observer in the balloon corp of the Union during the US Civil War. I think that flight would still be pursued though not as vigorously. I think as LL said, some of the advances may not have happened without WWI or even the time beforehand with heightening tensions. That may work to your advantage though.[/quote']

 

You might end up with aeroplanes being less developed without WWI forcing technical advancement, but aerostats being equally or more developed. After all, balloons and airships had been the main focus of flight since the 1780's.

[novi]

Re: Brainstorming an alternate Europe

 

Thanks, everyone, for the thoughts.

 

I was thinking roughly the 1920s, and I think Lawnmower Boy hit it on the head what I wanted, a sort of continued pre-WWI landscape with just a bit more technology.

 

One more question, though. From what I've read of history, it seems as though war between Russia and Austria-Hungary was fairly inevitable. Would a war between them be possible without dragging the rest of Europe into it?

[Silverhawk]

Re: Brainstorming an alternate Europe

 

Thanks, everyone, for the thoughts.

One more question, though. From what I've read of history, it seems as though war between Russia and Austria-Hungary was fairly inevitable. Would a war between them be possible without dragging the rest of Europe into it?

 

It's probable without a unified Germany but by no means certain since Prussia would still be a player in European affairs.

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Brainstorming an alternate Europe

 

Hmmmmm....

Interesting, but related, aside.

While it is increasingly accepted that the surface treatment of the Hindenburg was likely the main source of fuel for the fire, would a similar disaster be mitigated in effect if the envelope had been filled with Helium rather than Hydrogen (which was an expedient due to war related tensions IIRC)?

Granted, The Hindenburg disaster was a bit later on anyway, but I've always seen that as the downfall of the Airship Age.

[Sundog]

Re: Brainstorming an alternate Europe

 

Hmmmmm....

Interesting, but related, aside.

While it is increasingly accepted that the surface treatment of the Hindenburg was likely the main source of fuel for the fire, would a similar disaster be mitigated in effect if the envelope had been filled with Helium rather than Hydrogen (which was an expedient due to war related tensions IIRC)?

Granted, The Hindenburg disaster was a bit later on anyway, but I've always seen that as the downfall of the Airship Age.

 

It was. And without the Hydrogen-Oxygen reaction to act as an accelerant, the fire would have spread more slowly, possibly even been extinguished by the fire-retardent Helium. At the very least, the fire would not have been the spectacular, shown-in-every-theatre headliner that turned public opinion away from LTA altogether.

[The Monster]

Re: Brainstorming an alternate Europe

 

A few thoughts...

 

Without a united Germany to pose a common threat, the centuries-long rivalry between France and Britain could be much stronger than it was historically. Maybe not open, all-out war, but colonial confrontations such as were in India and America back in the day. At the very least, an active rivalry could add opportunities for illicit activities, smuggling across borders, playing one against the other for local advantage, etc. If Germany is a bunch of disunited or semi-united principalities, this provides an excellent place to play spy/crime/political games of all kinds (as it was for centuries previous).

 

Of course, the Great Game between Britain and Russia would continue apace. Another fun place for skulduggery of all kinds. Without Germany in the way, Russia would be constantly trying to push into central & Western Europe, leading to constant dustups and underhanded activities. Britain and/or France might give support to Polish nationalists, leading to much disorder (since free Poland was recreated by Versailles, and had not been subjugated long before). There could also be actual war between these powers, as was the case in Crimea less than a century before.

 

The Baltic and North Seas might become a pirate zone, with German freebooters playing Russian, British and Swedish authorities against each other.

 

Without WWI and the granting of League of Nations mandates over former German possessions, Imperial Japan would be less able to dominate the Pacific. Its plans against China would be largely unaffected, though. It might even offer itself as wild-card support foe various factions in Europe, as a way to gain influence and connections. (Samurai and Ninjas on Zeppelins! Total Win! )

[Silverhawk]

Re: Brainstorming an alternate Europe

 

A few thoughts...

 

Without WWI and the granting of League of Nations mandates over former German possessions, Imperial Japan would be less able to dominate the Pacific. Its plans against China would be largely unaffected, though. It might even offer itself as wild-card support foe various factions in Europe, as a way to gain influence and connections. (Samurai and Ninjas on Zeppelins! Total Win! )

 

Again, this is something that is hard to definitively say. Much of the interwar thinking by Imperial Japan was influenced by the fate of Germany during the Great War. They realized that the limited sources of certain strategic resources by Germany and the vulnerability to blockade by Britain led the Japanese to decide that they needed supplies of these resources that could not be interrupted by a hostile power.

[Ian Mackinder]

Re: Brainstorming an alternate Europe

 

This guy has written out a LOT of alternate histories. Most of them are for circa ww2, but there is earlier stuff as well, and it is all good.

 

http://www.dalecozort.com/