The Emergence Of Superhumans

[Trebuchet]

Re: The Emergence Of Superhumans

 

To my knowledge' date=' it never completely stopped and still continues (at substantially lower volumes) to this day.[/quote']That's my understanding as well.

[Steve]

Re: The Emergence Of Superhumans

 

In thinking about how to model the wondermaker type of superhuman, I have a couple of options. I can either have them take the full superhuman gene template and register on scanners as mutants, or my other option I am considering is something like this.

 

Wondermaker: An otherwise normal human with heightened levels of intelligence. Distinctive Features that requires more extensive genetic testing than would reveal normal supergenes (5 points). This would allow Intelligence to be as high as 50 (maybe also Ego as high as 25-30), but all other characateristics are hard capped at human normal maximums.

 

This genotype commonly develops what could be called "Malign Hyper-cognition Syndrome" which is a condition coined in the novel "Soon I Will Be Invincible."

 

In order for their weird science to operate in defiance of the laws of nature, perhaps the easiest way to do it is that they can buy superpowers as foci, and they are defined as personal foci.

[caris]

Re: The Emergence Of Superhumans

 

I'm only going to mention this because it might become an issue with some of your players. I personal always end up confused by concepts similar to your wondermaker for weird science and super tech explanations, when the setting specifically disallows more magic/mystic type special effects. I always wonder why someone can alter reality such that "tech" that shouldn't work can, but not such that "magic" can work. For me, it is a bit of a disconnect, but I tend to like magic fx, so it may just be a combination of my bias and lack of open mindedness on my part.

[Steve]

Re: The Emergence Of Superhumans

 

I'm only going to mention this because it might become an issue with some of your players. I personal always end up confused by concepts similar to your wondermaker for weird science and super tech explanations' date=' when the setting specifically disallows more magic/mystic type special effects. I always wonder why someone can alter reality such that "tech" that shouldn't work can, but not such that "magic" can work. For me, it is a bit of a disconnect, but I tend to like magic fx, so it may just be a combination of my bias and lack of open mindedness on my part.[/quote']

 

I normally like magic fx as well, but I am trying to avoid it in this simulation.

 

Superpowers themselves are a type of warping of natural law in and of themselves, so I guess my approach is to extend that a bit into allowing technology that goes off into the category of fringe science. Magic is IMHO too far beyond the curve.

 

Others posters have earlier pointed out that a setting with purely natural superpowers gives no place for normal humans to make a difference. The world would end up as balkanized nations ruled as personal fiefs by the superhuman and their descendants. Democracy would be stillborn.

 

When I first began this thread, my intention was to create a world where superpowers come from limited sources: innate superpowers (mutants) and technology (Iron Man). Wondermakers are my attempt to allow Iron Man to exist without totally warping the technological landscape.

 

If I take things too far from what players understand, is a world with superpowers still playable, or does it become another fantasy campaign?

[caris]

Re: The Emergence Of Superhumans

 

I normally like magic fx as well, but I am trying to avoid it in this simulation.

 

Superpowers themselves are a type of warping of natural law in and of themselves, so I guess my approach is to extend that a bit into allowing technology that goes off into the category of fringe science. Magic is IMHO too far beyond the curve.

 

Others posters have earlier pointed out that a setting with purely natural superpowers gives no place for normal humans to make a difference. The world would end up as balkanized nations ruled as personal fiefs by the superhuman and their descendants. Democracy would be stillborn.

 

When I first began this thread, my intention was to create a world where superpowers come from limited sources: innate superpowers (mutants) and technology (Iron Man). Wondermakers are my attempt to allow Iron Man to exist without totally warping the technological landscape.

 

If I take things too far from what players understand, is a world with superpowers still playable, or does it become another fantasy campaign?

 

Please, note that I am not trying to change your mind on the inclusion of magic, but showing a potential problem that can arrise from your chosen solution to the technological issue.

 

It may not be a problem that ever comes up in your games. It is just my inclination is to go, "So Tony Stark actually has a super power, the power to alter reality so that these devices which actually can't work, do work. Why can I not play Stephen Strange who has a super power to alter reality so that these incantations which actually can't work, do work?" It does not lead to an internally consistent universe for me.

 

It is much how the whole "magic level being responsible for super tech and super powers" in the CU is a problem for some people.

 

I can't help you with your last question, super heroes is a mixture of genres to me that always includes fantasy even when it does not include out and out magic. Too many super powers come across to me as poorly disguised magic.

[Steve]

Re: The Emergence Of Superhumans

 

Please, note that I am not trying to change your mind on the inclusion of magic, but showing a potential problem that can arrise from your chosen solution to the technological issue.

 

It may not be a problem that ever comes up in your games. It is just my inclination is to go, "So Tony Stark actually has a super power, the power to alter reality so that these devices which actually can't work, do work. Why can I not play Stephen Strange who has a super power to alter reality so that these incantations which actually can't work, do work?" It does not lead to an internally consistent universe for me.

 

It is much how the whole "magic level being responsible for super tech and super powers" in the CU is a problem for some people.

 

I can't help you with your last question, super heroes is a mixture of genres to me that always includes fantasy even when it does not include out and out magic. Too many super powers come across to me as poorly disguised magic.

 

Another possibility I was considering for the technology issue is what I could call "The Kelvarite Solution". Instead of an energy wave that passes through the solar system in 1000 AD, it is a meteor swarm that hits Earth. Most of the fragments pulverize on impact with Earth's atmosphere and rain down as dust contaminated with strange radiations that awaken superpowers in humanity. Larger chunks and fragments of the material, which I'll call Kelvarite until I can come up with something better, are scattered across the globe.

 

Weird/fringe science technology requires Kelvarite to work. It is not an innate superpower for a wondermaker then. But their desires for the technology to work causes a response from the Kelvarite included in the device's makeup, and so it does work.

 

An earlier poster mentioned that superpowers in his game world required strong desires to awaken, and this is an attempt to incorporate that notion along with an element of science-fiction.

[caris]

Re: The Emergence Of Superhumans

 

Weird/fringe science technology requires Kelvarite to work. It is not an innate superpower for a wondermaker then. But their desires for the technology to work causes a response from the Kelvarite included in the device's makeup' date=' and so it does work.[/quote']

 

Well, it sounds a lot like Ghost Rocks from Deadlands (just recently got into a Deadlands campaign). I would be the PITA trying to make magic talismans out of it. I don't know how much that would drag things into fantasy for you.

[Steve]

Re: The Emergence Of Superhumans

 

Well' date=' it sounds a lot like Ghost Rocks from Deadlands (just recently got into a Deadlands campaign). I would be the PITA trying to make magic talismans out of it. I don't know how much that would drag things into fantasy for you.[/quote']

 

Oh, you're right, it does. I'd forgotten about Deadlands weird tech using the magic coal.

 

Making fringe technology dependent on a rare mineral resource does help to limit the impact of technology. A suit of powered armor would require forging Kelvarite into its makeup to allow tank-like defense in something that a man can move in, and Kelvarite would be in its power core.

 

Now that I think more on it, it sounds a bit like how they treat Kryptonite in the Smallville series.

[OddHat]

Re: The Emergence Of Superhumans

 

Oh, you're right, it does. I'd forgotten about Deadlands weird tech using the magic coal.

 

Making fringe technology dependent on a rare mineral resource does help to limit the impact of technology. A suit of powered armor would require forging Kelvarite into its makeup to allow tank-like defense in something that a man can move in, and Kelvarite would be in its power core.

 

Now that I think more on it, it sounds a bit like how they treat Kryptonite in the Smallville series.

 

In my own games, I use a mix of rare components and materials rather than a single rare material.

 

You may have an Ancient power gauntlet. You may have the rare genes in your DNA needed to use it, and you may even mostly understand how it works. Still, the technology to duplicate it, or even to repair it, simply does not yet exist. Take it to the greatest Mad Scientists on Earth and even if they can figure it out almost entirely, they don't have the tools or materials to duplicate it, or even a clear idea of what those tools might be.

 

Of course, for a really great Mad Scientist, just studying that piece of Ancient technology can lead to break throughs in his own work, and some of those might eventually be duplicated by conventional science.

[csyphrett]

Re: The Emergence Of Superhumans

 

Also the right combination of skills and powers could produce technology equal to what we have today. Don't forget that things were discovered and forgotten and rediscovered by different people in different eras.

 

Instead of trying to map the whole world, maybe a narrower focus is required. Maybe picking one area and deciding what happened in that area when the wave hit would lead to other key factors.

 

CES

[sinanju]

Re: The Emergence Of Superhumans

 

Also the right combination of skills and powers could produce technology equal to what we have today. Don't forget that things were discovered and forgotten and rediscovered by different people in different eras.

CES

 

Only for fairly primitive levels of technology. Nobody discovered and then forgot how to build internal combustion engines, radios or microchips, for instance. Those things required both insight and a minimal level of technology to produce. And minimal levels of technology require a minimal level of societal (if not personal) wealth; otherwise nobody can afford the time and materials needed to discover and produce such things.

 

As I mentioned in an earlier post, Intel's chip production facilities cost billions to create--because the infrastructure requirements (the tools to build the tools and the skilled labor to create, maintain and/or operate them). Even if you had a complete blueprint for everything you'd need to duplicate it, if you're living in 19th century England you won't have the technology OR the wealth to copy it. If you're a supergenius, you might be able to bootstrap your way to that level of technology eventually, but THAT is what you'll be spending your time on: raising the general level of tech to support future advances.

[AnotherSkip]

Re: The Emergence Of Superhumans

 

How wars are fought would be quite different in this alternate timeline.

 

Since superhumans would be the biological equivalent of fast-deploying mobile artillery pieces, an earlier poster pointed out that armies would likely be much smaller, and opposing countries would use superhumans to decide their battles. Wars may have similar winners and losers to those that came about in our timeline, but the collateral damage may not be as severe.

 

Something like the First World War might have been fought, but since millions of dead in the trenches in our timeline wouldn't have happened in this one, the conditions that formed the Second World War were probably suppressed.

 

The Civil War in America, I'm inclined to think came out a stalemate leading to a divided nation. Partly this is because I think it would give more potential plotlines to have the US divided up a bit. This would have had a major effect on expansion to the west as well.

 

Actually I had 1 time travelling super show up at gettysburg and the two following battles. he didn't change anything because A. the north won those three battles B. the Northern general STILL didn't followup properly like he should have. Those same three battles in our timeline that General was berated by Lincon not for winning, but for not taking advantage of it.

[csyphrett]

Re: The Emergence Of Superhumans

 

Only for fairly primitive levels of technology. Nobody discovered and then forgot how to build internal combustion engines, radios or microchips, for instance. Those things required both insight and a minimal level of technology to produce. And minimal levels of technology require a minimal level of societal (if not personal) wealth; otherwise nobody can afford the time and materials needed to discover and produce such things.

 

As I mentioned in an earlier post, Intel's chip production facilities cost billions to create--because the infrastructure requirements (the tools to build the tools and the skilled labor to create, maintain and/or operate them). Even if you had a complete blueprint for everything you'd need to duplicate it, if you're living in 19th century England you won't have the technology OR the wealth to copy it. If you're a supergenius, you might be able to bootstrap your way to that level of technology eventually, but THAT is what you'll be spending your time on: raising the general level of tech to support future advances.

 

Too true. Technology itself would be warped in this setting in my opinion. Steam engines would be built faster, which could create some of the things we associate with steam punk since by 1000 AD the primitive development had already been done.

 

The Chinese had gunpowder at this point. Sooner or later, a brain could use this as the basis for a modern-like artillery, or even rocket powered flight.

 

And in my opinion, the right powers would be able to take working designs and create them in less time. Advances and bootstrapping could be done faster depending on the need for things to help in certain areas since inventions usually happen because someone is trying to do something faster for less.

 

Medicine is the only science I see that might be stunted by powers but even there someone might figure things out faster than in our world, and apply powers to it.

 

CES

[LoresLost]

Re: The Emergence Of Superhumans

 

The Chinese had gunpowder at this point. Sooner or later, a brain could use this as the basis for a modern-like artillery, or even rocket powered flight.

 

To be truthful, the Chinese did have rocket artillery and hand grenades as early as 1000 AD (and perhaps much earlier if this Wikipedia article is correct http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunpowder ) Thankfully the Chinese were not as expansionist as the Western world or we would more and likely be speaking Mandarin variants.

 

The issue of making a "Mad Science" reality from the source material work with real scientific method is that if a mad scientist would need an army of minions doing the detail work as he does design work. Yet in the comic books and Pulp stories have 3-4 henchmen look slack jawed as the boss pulls a wonder from his very small lab "THAT WILL SHOW THEM ALL".

 

I am just saying how much do you want a game that is comic book like in feel verses realistic feel to the world. This is a Game Play judgment for GM and players to make.

[Steve]

Re: The Emergence Of Superhumans

 

Since I enjoy the online comic Girl Genius, I'm considering changing the setting date from an alternate present to an early to mid-1800s timeframe.

 

Any suggestions on how a superteam might be put together in a steampunk environment?

[Steve]

Re: The Emergence Of Superhumans

 

Thankfully the Chinese were not as expansionist as the Western world or we would more and likely be speaking Mandarin variants.

 

I'd actually be more concerned about a few superhumans among the Mongol hordes than the Chinese. They ravaged quite a bit of the ancient world even without superpowers.

[LoresLost]

Re: The Emergence Of Superhumans

 

Since I enjoy the online comic Girl Genius, I'm considering changing the setting date from an alternate present to an early to mid-1800s timeframe.

 

Any suggestions on how a superteam might be put together in a steampunk environment?

 

Well you could look at Girl Genius and have them Built in the Laboritory.

-or-

 

Look at the fact GG is already a supers environment with out code names or costumes:

1. Agatha -Gadgeteer/Martial Artist.
   
2. Zetha Martial Brick
   
3. Gilgamesh Gadgeteer/Martial Artist
   
4. Klaus Wulfenbach Gadgeteer/Brick/Martial Artist
   
5. Ogden is either a speed brick or a martial brick (and he is not anywhere as dumb as he looks)
   
6. Countess Maria - Mentalist/Gadeteer (Mass Mind Control any one)
   

 

and the list goes on.

[Steve]

Re: The Emergence Of Superhumans

 

Well you could look at Girl Genius and have them Built in the Laboritory.

-or-

 

Look at the fact GG is already a supers environment with out code names or costumes:

1. Agatha -Gadgeteer/Martial Artist.
   
2. Zetha Martial Brick
   
3. Gilgamesh Gadgeteer/Martial Artist
   
4. Klaus Wulfenbach Gadgeteer/Brick/Martial Artist
   
5. Ogden is either a speed brick or a martial brick (and he is not anywhere as dumb as he looks)
   
6. Countess Maria - Mentalist/Gadeteer (Mass Mind Control any one)
   

 

and the list goes on.

 

You make good points. I think I might have more fun with steampunk superheroes than modern-day versions.

 

I'd rep you, but I already hit you recently.

[DocMan]

Re: The Emergence Of Superhumans

 

Since I enjoy the online comic Girl Genius, I'm considering changing the setting date from an alternate present to an early to mid-1800s timeframe.

 

Any suggestions on how a superteam might be put together in a steampunk environment?

 

They all happened to be on a tour of Europe when they met at the Opera. Steampunk is set in a time of bored nobles, exploring societies, and Gentlemen Adventurers. Putting a party together is easy. Just have Something occurr in front of them at Some Social Event.

 

Doc

[DocMan]

Re: The Emergence Of Superhumans

 

The question isn't how did Superhumans change the course of history, but why doesn't the course of history change because of Superhumans.

 

Superhumans have always been around. Those that cannot pass as normal humans have been monsters, demons, witches, elves, goblins, and gods. Those that can pass as normal humans have been heroes, champions, adventurers, wizards, angels, demi-gods, and gods.

 

Human societies motivate people to find safety and security. Superhumans in human societies can easily find safety and security, and so need further motivation. Typically, these superhumans tend to fall into one of three groups 1) those who will use their power to take advantage of their neighbors 2) those who will use their power to stop others from abusing their neighbors 3) those who don't want their powers and want to be their neighbors.

 

In primitive societies, type 1 and 2 Superhumans tend to eliminate each other, while type 3 blend in with the rest of their society. The clashes of the first two types have become legends and history of many nations. When the type 1's win, they tend to expand their power base until a type 2 comes along and defeats them. When a type 2 wins, they tend to leave people to their own devices, or get forced into being rulers and otherwise try to be as peaceful and prosperous as possible until they die.

 

Do groups of Superhumans come together and form an oligarchy to rule over the regular humans around them? Yes. Since their culture is based upon martial prowess, they become warriors, and when they are elevated to the ruling class, knights. Part of the code of knighthood is to only fight those of one's own station, except upon the peril of one's own life.

 

Some Superhumans perform miracles and are revered as those touched by diety. Others are hunted down as being in league with evil forces. Usually by other superhumans who are passing as mere mortals.

 

So over time, it becomes in a Superhuman's own interest to keep a low profile and not attract the interest of those who would percieve them as a threat.

 

Some Superhumans wonder about why they are different, advancing religion and philosophy. Others look at how they are different, and advance the cause of medicine, for in order to study the differences, they must also study regular humans.

 

Some Superhumans refuse to hide their specialness. They are either hunted, or become legendary figures, like Paul Bunyan.

 

Mentalists coming into their powers are often driven mad by the voices of the pressing crowds in their heads.

 

The limit to the use of superpowers is the human imagination. Each age gives us stories of what humans would do if they had great powers. The Greek Myths. Witch stories. Fairy tales. Legends.

 

Superhumans have always been around. The tide of history moves them along with everyone else.

 

Doc

[Steve]

Re: The Emergence Of Superhumans

 

Well, said. I'd rep you, but I've hit you recently.

[BNakagawa]

Re: The Emergence Of Superhumans

 

In western europe, maybe. There are plenty of other cultures that worship deities that look nothing like humans. Who knows, maybe there were superhumans around in oh say India that looked nonhuman and were still embraced...

[DocMan]

Re: The Emergence Of Superhumans

 

In western europe' date=' maybe. There are plenty of other cultures that worship deities that look nothing like humans. Who knows, maybe there were superhumans around in oh say India that looked nonhuman and were still embraced...[/quote']

 

Note that the last entry in both the human and non-human groups is "gods". So the young child who can transform himself into a flying feathered serpent can either be hunted as a beast, or become a God of a south American empire.

 

Doc

[Steve]

Re: The Emergence Of Superhumans

 

On thing I didn't ask during the course of this thread is the emergence event itself. When you have superheroes emerge into sight, does it happen with a loud event or a quiet event?

 

An example of a loud event would be the Marvel's New Universe "White Event", which was pretty noticeable across the globe.

 

An example of a quiet event would be how the Champions Universe or Gestalt did it. Superheroes emerged, and there was an explanation for it. But the event that started allowing superheroes into reality went unnoticed by humanity at large.

[OddHat]

Re: The Emergence Of Superhumans

 

Well, there's a sort of odd set of assumptions you'll run into in different settings as to just what letting Supers into Reality means.

 

In my own setting, Humans were genetically manipulated in various ways by the Ancients in our deep pre-history; from a certain point of view, they made Humans. Those trigger genes are the major source of Fortean Talents / Super Powers in humans today (lifted mostly from Marvel, but other sources used as well). Humans also cross-bred with extradimensional and extraterestrial entities several times in history, introducing other genetic strains that eventually resulted in humans with "Super" powers.

 

Costumed Heroes started emerging in the late 1800s, but that wasn't the start of Supers.