Effective builds

[quozaxx]

What relatively lower cost advantages (or combination of powers) do you think is the most effective. Perhaps even surprising.

 

For example. Desolidfication is inherently invisible to Sonar, Radar, and Scent. So that added with a relatively low Invisibility would cover most senses.

 

This may be very helpful for those with lower powered campaigns.

[Doc Samson]

Re: Effective builds

 

Together these two powers make you a fearsome grappler.

- Buying your Casual STR equal to your STR (only for casual STR is a -1.5 limitation in the UB) gives you two full strength Breakout Rolls per phase.

- A Clinging Damage Shield on a Brick (15 pts.) means a Grabbed character can break a hold in one phase, but not escape.

 

Post Segment 12 Recoveries are often a waste unless you dump a ton of END on segment 12. Buying some REC with Gradual Effect [1 Turn] (-1/4) allows you to spread out your segment 12 recovery into the following turn, which can offset some damage.

 

Suppress is a Constant power and as such is one of the few Attack powers that can be taken with Damage Shield without the need for Continuous. Add to that it's cheap cost and even in AP capped campaigns a 0 END Suppress Damage Shield will make your enemies unhappy.

 

Even though Flight can do the same things, simple Leaping can be used to reduce falling damage (435), to escape from holds (364-365, 387), and add to damage (Move By/ Move Through) at half the cost (plus everyone starts off with some leaping).

 

As you already pointed out, Invisibility can be extremely effective for the cost (effectively halving an enemy's CVs).

 

These are all from my last character (a giant anthropomorphic frog). I'll add more if I think of any.

[JmOz]

Re: Effective builds

 

Well it is on the chopping block for sixth

 

BUT

 

The Chun Li effect (as someone else named it)

 

By a 10 point Martial Arts Package

 

Dodge

Legsweep

Martial Grab (Scissor Hold)

 

Then a Multipower

 

Super Legs 25 point MP

 

+3d6 HA, AP

+3d6 HA, AF

+3d6 HA, 0 end

etc...

 

Then buy Find Weakness (legsweep)

then a bunch of 3 point skill levels

 

The thing about this is they all stack together, for very few points...

[Pattern Ghost]

Re: Effective builds

 

- A Clinging Damage Shield on a Brick (15 pts.) means a Grabbed character can break a hold in one phase, but not escape.

 

That'd be 25 pts, b/c you have to make Clinging into an attack first with Usable as Attack (+1).

[Psylint]

Re: Effective builds

 

Assuming you're just talking about powers and/or advantages and not munchkin builds which stack limitations to make absurdly powerful effects for micro points.

 

1. Smell as a targeting and tracking sense, almost never flashed, darkened out, etc.

2. 2 Overall skill levels.

3. Rapid Attack, Two Weapon Fighting.

4. Find Weakness

5. Mental Illusions: favorite example making enemies appear as friends and vice versa. tons of fun.

6. Images

7. Aid, in a team context even a little Aid gets broken quickly.

8. Martial Arts generally, ranged martial arts in particular.

9. Flight, movement, can mitigate kb, provides "long range" combat punch with additional damage.

10. Teamwork, Coordinated attacks hit very hard.

[Doc Samson]

Re: Effective builds

 

That'd be 25 pts' date=' b/c you have to make Clinging into an attack first with Usable as Attack (+1).[/quote']

Please refer to 5ER pg. 142, under Clinging.

[Pattern Ghost]

Re: Effective builds

 

Please refer to 5ER pg. 142' date=' under Clinging.[/quote']

 

I don't have Revised. I have a note saying although it's not an attack power you can buy Damage Shield for it, blah blah blah in FRED though, now that you mention it.

 

So, I suppose that's a legal construct. I call bull---- on that, though. Why does Clinging get to be a special case? Because someone thought it'd be cool to use it as an attack, even though it's not an attack power? That seems like a silly exception that's not even needed. It's not like the power isn't cheap at 25 pts for the effect. Frankly, the construct sounds about as fishy as PRE with x2 Knockback. I doubt I'd allow it.

 

Though, now that you point it out, I stand corrected, thanks.

[secretID]

Re: Effective builds

 

Suppress is a Constant power and as such is one of the few Attack powers that can be taken with Damage Shield without the need for Continuous. Add to that it's cheap cost and even in AP capped campaigns a 0 END Suppress Damage Shield will make your enemies unhappy.

I'm having a hard time getting my head around this. Can you give an example of its operation in combat?

[secretID]

Re: Effective builds

 

Why does Clinging get to be a special case?

I'm not sure if I would allow it either, but it does seem a little different. With flying UAA, you make the target fly. With this, you're not making the target clingy - you're clinging to him.

 

As I think about it, shouldn't it be a trigger instead of a damage shield.

[secretID]

Re: Effective builds

 

- STR, obviously - enjoy your figured chars while they last

- big ECs - get all you powers at half price

- I like one unusual targeting sense, e.g. radar - gets you around most flashes and most invisibility at a relatively low price.

[Pattern Ghost]

Re: Effective builds

 

I'm not sure if I would allow it either, but it does seem a little different. With flying UAA, you make the target fly. With this, you're not making the target clingy - you're clinging to him.

 

As I think about it, shouldn't it be a trigger instead of a damage shield.

 

That might be some of the logic behind it. The main thing is that it seems a bit undercosted for the effect to me. I might allow it for some builds, depending on how the player defined the special effects, I dunno. Just seems like an oddity.

[Dronf]

Re: Effective builds

 

Teleportation, Megascaled, Extra Time defined as travel time (it's supposed to be preperation time!). FTL at 10% or less the cost.

[Doc Samson]

Re: Effective builds

 

I don't have Revised. I have a note saying although it's not an attack power you can buy Damage Shield for it, blah blah blah in FRED though, now that you mention it.

 

So, I suppose that's a legal construct. I call bull---- on that, though. Why does Clinging get to be a special case? Because someone thought it'd be cool to use it as an attack, even though it's not an attack power? That seems like a silly exception that's not even needed. It's not like the power isn't cheap at 25 pts for the effect. Frankly, the construct sounds about as fishy as PRE with x2 Knockback. I doubt I'd allow it.

 

Though, now that you point it out, I stand corrected, thanks.

I agree. I don't see the need for an exception here when UAA still makes the build possible, and in a Supers game 15 pts. is a bit cheap for the effect.

[Doc Samson]

Re: Effective builds

 

Assuming you're just talking about powers and/or advantages and not munchkin builds which stack limitations to make absurdly powerful effects for micro points.

 

1. Smell as a targeting and tracking sense, almost never flashed, darkened out, etc.

2. 2 Overall skill levels.

3. Rapid Attack, Two Weapon Fighting.

4. Find Weakness

5. Mental Illusions: favorite example making enemies appear as friends and vice versa. tons of fun.

6. Images

7. Aid, in a team context even a little Aid gets broken quickly.

8. Martial Arts generally, ranged martial arts in particular.

9. Flight, movement, can mitigate kb, provides "long range" combat punch with additional damage.

10. Teamwork, Coordinated attacks hit very hard.

Heh, the character I referenced above had #1 and #3 on this list. Good stuff.

 

If we are talking Skills too, my favorite combo is:

Extra Limbs, Two-Weapon Fighting, WF: Off Hand, Rapid Attack, and either more END or 1/2 END for STR

The result is two attacks per phase with no penalties for a whopping 21 pts. + END costs.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Effective builds

 

I agree. I don't see the need for an exception here when UAA still makes the build possible' date=' and in a Supers game 15 pts. is a bit cheap for the effect.[/quote']

 

UAA is not appropriate, IMO, as the power does not grant Clinging to the target, but allows your Clinging to Cling to the target.

 

I find the build problematic not because it is too cheap but because its effectiveness is based on the STR of the user and its cost is not. I would allow the construct on the basis that the base cost of Clinging grants a 10 STR, and all further STR must be bought up through the Clinging power itself. The cost of a Damage Aura that effectively grabs all who come in contact with the character at a STR of 60 should be the same whether the character with this power has a 10 STR or a 100 STR himself. The Energy Projector doesn't get his EB Damage Shield at a discount because he already has ann EB.

[Pattern Ghost]

Re: Effective builds

 

I found it too cheap for the effect b/c it scales with STR for a flat, and very low, cost. So, yarp, agreeing.

[Matt the Bruins]

Re: Effective builds

 

I'm having a hard time getting my head around this. Can you give an example of its operation in combat?

The little bald kid from the 3rd X-Men movie springs immediately to mind.

[secretID]

Re: Effective builds

 

The little bald kid from the 3rd X-Men movie springs immediately to mind.

I'm happy to say that I've blocked most of that movie out. I meant more mechanically, anyway. It seems to me that if the character has, say, a Suppress INT damage shield, upon touching him the opponent loses than many points of INT, and that loss stays in effect for so long as the character pays END and maintains LOS. I guess that works - there's just something counterintuitive to me.

 

On that subject, I love Suppress INT. I prefer Suppress to Drain, and INT is a great target. INT gets you 1-for-1 impact, big losses are disabling, and most characters have less INT than STR. I love hitting a brick with that.

 

On a distantly related point, limited PRE (only for PRE attacks) is absurdly more practical than Drain/Suppress PRE. Very high PRE in general is a very cheap, effective purchase - game-breaking, really.

[CourtFool]

Munchkin, I

 

2. 2 Overall skill levels.

 

Really? I love Overall Skill Levels.

[Certified]

Re: Effective builds

 

I'm happy to say that I've blocked most of that movie out. I meant more mechanically, anyway. It seems to me that if the character has, say, a Suppress INT damage shield, upon touching him the opponent loses than many points of INT, and that loss stays in effect for so long as the character pays END and maintains LOS. I guess that works - there's just something counterintuitive to me.

 

On that subject, I love Suppress INT. I prefer Suppress to Drain, and INT is a great target. INT gets you 1-for-1 impact, big losses are disabling, and most characters have less INT than STR. I love hitting a brick with that.

 

On a distantly related point, limited PRE (only for PRE attacks) is absurdly more practical than Drain/Suppress PRE. Very high PRE in general is a very cheap, effective purchase - game-breaking, really.

 

Better make sure that Suppress does what it needs to do. You don't want a super strong brick with the mind of an infant thinking your a Stranger Danger and a Bad Man. It's brain dead or smashed.

[secretID]

Re: Effective builds

 

Better make sure that Suppress does what it needs to do. You don't want a super strong brick with the mind of an infant thinking your a Stranger Danger and a Bad Man. It's brain dead or smashed.

Yeah - I like it suppressed down to "roll under a six or stand there drooling."

[Dronf]

Re: Effective builds

 

Detect Defence Powers (No Sense Group), Sense, Discriminatory, Analyze: 17 points (5+2+5+5)

 

Variable Special Effects (and maybe Variable Advantages) on an EB/RKA.

 

Extremely useful: you know how to rip through your foes' defences, and you can.

[BNakagawa]

Re: Effective builds

 

Variable S/FX + Knowledge: Supervillains is a good way to go fishing for vulnerabilities and/or susceptibilities.

 

That said, it smells strongly of cheese and there's this one guy in our gaming group that plays it and frankly, it's annoying.

[poptoad]

Re: Effective builds

 

Here's some powers I think synergize well:

 

1) Invisibility + Strength + Stretching

 

Strength attacks (or martial arts attacks) are far and away the best for Invisibility characters, since they get the "free" advantage that they have fully invisible "special effects." Stretching makes your STR ranged and indirect at a flat rate, 5 points per inch, regardless of how much strength you've got. It's very hard to locate a stretching invisible character, and meanwhile he's knocking you silly.

 

2) N-ray Vision + Teleportation + Stretching with +1/4 "does not cross intervening space" advantage

 

N-ray vision synergizes well with a lot of powers, teleportation being an obvious one, since you can teleport anyplace you can see without danger. The cool twist is adding stretching with the +1/4 "does not cross intervening space" advantage. This allows you to teleport behind a wall and then punch someone on the other side. A character with this combination of powers is almost impossible to defeat inside. He also makes a good thief, since he can reach inside bank vaults – even those that have been hardened against teleportation.

 

Combine 1) and 2) and you've got my favorite character, that rascal Phase Strike. The only addition is to buy a slot on his teleportation that's fully invisible, make the invisibility good versus most senses, and voila! A very versatile character, and one tough for even very high-powered villains to defeat (without special preparation). It's hard to find him and hard to keep up with him. His natural vulnerabilities are mentalists, characters with large VPPs, and the Black Paladin, who can teleport after him and sense his soul (who for this reason makes an exciting hunted).

 

3) N-ray vision + tunneling with +10 "fill in" adder + indirect attacks

 

Here's another good synergy with N-ray vision. Tunnel down 6" or so, closing your tunnel behind you, and begin firing whatever indirect attack you have. Telekinesis is a natural. You can also get a 9 and 1/2 d6 EB, "always fires from the ground up" for 60 points, or 7 and 1/2 d6 indirect armor-piercing EB for 61. All of these powers go well with an "Earth Elemental" conception.

 

This character is hard to find, and even if you find him he's tough to fire back at. Six hexes of dirt between him and the fight, at 10 Body per hex of dirt, is a lot. Unless you've got tunnelling yourself, it'll take five or six phases to blast down to him, at which point he leisurely tunnels over a half move and you have to start all over again.

 

4) Tunneling with +1/2 "at range" advantage

 

Adding the "at range" advantage to tunneling is a great way to take out structures or anything that moves really slowly, like tanks or zombies. For 60 points you can get 8" of tunneling at range, which will either allow you to drop someone 8" into the ground, or drop 8 hexes 1" into the ground. A million and one uses! Dex rolls and diving for cover and etc. become key, which is why this works best against things with rotten dex, like the aforementioned tanks and zombies, though it also works great against normals in general. Great for turning those Viper firing lines to a shambles.

 

This is another combo that fits well with an "Earth Elemental" conception. Call it "earth moving" and you're good to go. Best of all, you don't have to buy the "usable as attack" advantage because you're not tunneling SOMEONE, you're just tunneling the ground under them, and letting gravity do the work.

 

5) BODY drains

 

Even a little body drain does amazing things against structures, since these very rarely have power defence. Given a little time you can eat through the toughest vault doors or handcuffs.

 

6) Low STR + martial arts damage classes + high speed

 

For when you want to play the little girl with super-powered martial arts, buy 5 STR, +9 damage classes, and high speed. This gives her some interesting options in combat: a 12d6 punch, a 6 1/2 d6 NND "low blow" martial attack, a 3 1/2 d6 HKA karate chop, etc. The key is that damage classes don't cost any END, and so fit well with a speedster character. Give her a 10 speed, you don't care! You're only spending 1 END per phase with her 5 STR.

 

This character also has interesting limitations. She can martial throw Grond across the room, has 65 strength to escape grabs, and can punch her way through a wall, but can't lift a kitchen table or escape even a 3 DEF entangle. She makes a great villain for characters who are blasting their way out of every problem, when she can be taken down with that little one-hex entangle. Make her bratty, filthy rich, and loved by the media, and you've got one of the favorite villains in my campaign.

 

7) Force Walls transparent to energy damage

 

For 63 points, you can build a 16 PD, 0 ED, 2" forcewall that's transparent to energy damage. This is a versatile, fun, and effective power in combat. 2" is enough to "englobe" people, effectively trapping them. If you're in a 12 DC cap campaign, the only way they can get out is by haymakering, which will leave them at -5 DCV for your compatriots to pick off.

 

Of course, you can also cast it on yourself – particularly effective if your own attacks are indirect or energy and so pass through harmlessly.

 

8) Force Walls transparent to physical damage and opaque to normal sight

 

For 63 points, you can build a 0 PD, 12 ED, 2" forcewall that's transparent to physical damage and completely opaque to normal sight. Another very creative power! Anyone can run through it without bringing it down. At the same time, the opacity of it is great for screening things. If you use it to englobe someone it's as good as a 1-hex darkness, since all light will be shut off. If you use it to englobe yourself, no one will be able to see you, and will have to resort to attacking your hex. If you have a good non-sight targeting sense, you've just incidentally given yourself a big DCV boost. Cast it on yourself, close to HTH range, and your opponent will be fighting you blind.

 

My telekinetic character has both 7) and 8), and they make for interesting combats.

 

9) Extra time + telepathy or mind control

 

Okay, here's a cheesy one to close.

 

 

Either of these powers can be very useful when time is no object. With a healthy bonus for taking extra time, you can gain unshakeable control over someone, or plunder all their secrets. For 12 points, a -1 1/2 "takes one minute" time disad will give you 30 active points. With this you can buy:

 

1d6 Telepathy (or Mind Control), +2 x4 penetrating, +1/2 cumulative, +1/2 invisible to mental senses, +2 = x1024 maximum effect

 

Just hang around Dr. Destroyer for a while and he'll become your slave and you can learn everything he knows about technology. He'll never even know what's happening. All for the low, low price of 12 points!

 

See? Cheesy. But the rest of these seem to me like plain old good character design.

[poptoad]

Re: Effective builds

 

Detect Defence Powers (No Sense Group), Sense, Discriminatory, Analyze: 17 points (5+2+5+5)

 

Variable Special Effects (and maybe Variable Advantages) on an EB/RKA.

 

Extremely useful: you know how to rip through your foes' defences, and you can.

 

Wouldn't you want that sense ranged, as well?