Sixth Edition Showcase #4: Deflection, Reflection, And Range

[Steve Long]

A Statement Of Purpose: As we build up to the release of 6E, I thought it would be fun to showcase something in the 6E rules that I think HERO fans will particularly like or find useful. The Sixth Edition Showcases won’t be lengthy or detail-filled, but hopefully they’ll whet your appetite for 6E. I plan to post one a week, though not necessarily on the same day each week.

 

Naturally, you’re welcome to discuss each Showcase to your heart’s content — praise it, complain about it, whatever you like. However, generally speaking, I’m not going to participate in the conversation or answer any questions. I’ll say pretty much all I want to say in each Showcase post.

 

So, on to this week’s showcase! The subject:

 

Deflection, Reflection, And Range

 

As many of you know, I’ve never been very happy with the 4E/5E Missile Deflection & Reflection Power, for a variety of reasons: it largely means paying for functionality you get for free with Dodge; the two “halves” of the Power don’t fit together well; using special effects to define what the Power can do is kind of odd; and so on.

 

Thus, one of my goals for 6E was to find a way to make this Power worth its weight... or, failing that, ditch it and just let people build “Missile Deflection” as extra defense with a Required Skill Roll or something. Fortunately, I was able to resolve the problem to my own satisfaction without having to go to that extreme — and I think the end result will be to your satisfaction as well.

 

After a whole lot of thinking, tinkering, and draft-writing, I finally came to the conclusion that I could make Deflection and Reflection both have unique functionality that’s worth paying Character Points for by making one change to the combat rules: allow characters to Block Ranged attacks made against them. So, now characters can do that, though usually it requires a shield or some other implement (as the rules note, trying to Block laser beams with your bare hands tends to be a Very Bad Idea ).

 

Deflection is the ability to Block Ranged attacks at Range (and without the need for any sort of implement). For example, it could be telekinetically knocking arrows out of the air, or using your energy beam to “shoot down” an attacker’s energy beam. Reflection (a separate Power) allows a character to Reflect Ranged attacks that he can Block back at the attacker (or sometimes at other targets). It doesn’t work with Deflection (at least, not in the basic rules; that’ll be touched on in the APG).

 

I think these changes really give those two Powers a distinctive purpose, a reason to exist in the System, and make them darn useful and fun to boot. And with the right Power Modifiers you can create lots of interesting abilities with ’em.

 

Now let’s take a look at this week’s sample page (which is, as usual, as yet unedited). I chose it for two reasons. The first is to show off the excellent Storn Cook art. This piece is one of a series of pieces that Storn did for us that tell an Urban Fantasy story he came up with. As you progress through the book you see the main character investigating a murder and eventually confronting the killer in mystical combat. It’s Very Cool.

 

Second, it includes a minor change to the Range rules. The Standard Range for Powers isn’t 10 meters (what used to be 5 hexes) times Active Points anymore, it’s 10m times Base Points. A Blast 10d6 (base cost of 50 Character Points, final cost of 50 Active Points) has a Range of 500m; a Blast 10d6, Penetrating (base cost of 50 Character Points, final cost of 75 Active Points) also has a Range of 500m. I think this tends to be more “game logical” and easier to learn for someone who’s not already HERO-fluent. Of course, it probably won’t have any real effect on play since combats almost never take place at really long ranges. In any event it’s a simple matter to extend a Power’s range if need be.

 

That’s all for this week... though I’m sure it’ll give you plenty to discuss until next week’s Showcase.

[Hierax]

Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #4: Deflection, Reflection, And Range

 

Excellent, more good changes!

 

Great to see Base Points being used as the umm... basis for range.

 

Page looks good too!

[Steve Long]

Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #4: Deflection, Reflection, And Range

 

"But Umber Hulks With Shotguns? That Rocks Ass!!"

 

Total pointless aside (he said, desperately seeking a temporary reprieve from the Hell of Editation): every time I see this, here or in KODT, I think, "Man, I gotta remember to commission a picture for 6E FH featuring monsters with shotguns."

[ajackson]

Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #4: Deflection, Reflection, And Range

 

So, is there any way to block melee attacks at range? That's something I've seen come up often enough that it seems worth handling in a standardized way.

[nexus]

Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #4: Deflection, Reflection, And Range

 

IIUC, the ability to use a Block maneuver against Ranged attacks is now a basic (universal) ability?

 

Edit: Nope, my bad. I misread. Sorry about that!

 

I am curious how the ability to block ranged attacks with your bare hands (the martial artist or speedsters that can catch bullets) can be built and is there any addition that allows for Melee/Hand to Hand attacks to be Deflected?

[nexus]

Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #4: Deflection, Reflection, And Range

 

After a whole lot of thinking, tinkering, and draft-writing, I finally came to the conclusion that I could make Deflection and Reflection both have unique functionality that’s worth paying Character Points for by making one change to the combat rules: allow characters to Block Ranged attacks made against them. So, now characters can do that, though usually it requires a shield or some other implement (as the rules note, trying to Block laser beams with your bare hands tends to be a Very Bad Idea ).

 

This seems to impose a mandatory "limitation"* on the ability regardless of special effect or to give specific sfxs a permanent bonus when acting against it. For example, If a character defines their 8d6 eb as a thrown rock a defender can Deflect it barehanded but if someone else defines their a plasma bolt they cannot. Being overly sfx dependent was an issue I had with the 5th edition version of Missile Deflection.

 

Of course these aren't the rule in their entirety so this might be addressed there.

 

*they'll need a focus or Object of Opportunity to use it against many sfx regardless if they get a cost break or not.

[Beast]

Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #4: Deflection, Reflection, And Range

 

Darth Vader did not seem to have a problem deflecting Han's blaster bolt when they meet for the first time in The Empire Strikes Back

yet lost his hand to Luke in Return of the Jedi when fighting with light sabers

 

 

Deflection, Reflection, And Range

 

After a whole lot of thinking, tinkering, and draft-writing, I finally came to the conclusion that I could make Deflection and Reflection both have unique functionality that’s worth paying Character Points for by making one change to the combat rules: allow characters to Block Ranged attacks made against them. So, now characters can do that, though usually it requires a shield or some other implement (as the rules note, trying to Block laser beams with your bare hands tends to be a Very Bad Idea ).

 

[mallet]

Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #4: Deflection, Reflection, And Range

 

Darth Vader did not seem to have a problem deflecting Han's blaster bolt when they meet for the first time in The Empire Strikes Back

yet lost his hand to Luke in Return of the Jedi when fighting with light sabers

 

Maybe his suit had enough ED to negate the blast or it was a Force power that allowed him to do that. As for the lightsaber cutting off his hand, most lightsaber builds that I have seen use NND (force fields) so any ED his suit might have had would have been useless against the lightsaber attack.

 

At least that's how I would see the builds to simulate that.

[nexus]

Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #4: Deflection, Reflection, And Range

 

... it was a Force power that allowed him to do that.

 

Well yes it was sfx wise a force power but can you build that force power (effectively "blocking" a ranged attack defined as "lethal energy beam") with your bare hand with this new set of rules. Or the sfx that would allow a character to do so.

[Alibear]

Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #4: Deflection, Reflection, And Range

 

So if missile deflection is just a variant of block can you mix and match between blocking ranged and melee attacks in the same phase?

 

Another house rule coming true for me perhaps?

[BobGreenwade]

Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #4: Deflection, Reflection, And Range

 

Total pointless aside (he said' date=' desperately seeking a temporary reprieve from the Hell of Editation): every time I see this, here or in KODT, I think, "Man, I gotta remember to commission a picture for 6E FH featuring monsters with shotguns." [/quote']If I ever get Space Wizards going, I may beat you to it.

 

I already have at least one individual stoked at the idea of Chiang-Shih toting lasers.

[Beast]

Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #4: Deflection, Reflection, And Range

 

I find that having to use NND does body vs FF as a bad build

as another light saber would have a FF to control the energy in the light saber

so you have an example of a small FF generator that could be worn(even at 4 times the size it would be a small back pack)

so it could have been in in Vader's armor or any storm trooper's

 

IMHO it would be just a 4d6 energy KA maybe adding MA maneuvers and CSLs

 

 

 

Maybe his suit had enough ED to negate the blast or it was a Force power that allowed him to do that. As for the lightsaber cutting off his hand, most lightsaber builds that I have seen use NND (force fields) so any ED his suit might have had would have been useless against the lightsaber attack.

 

At least that's how I would see the builds to simulate that.

[The Main Man]

Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #4: Deflection, Reflection, And Range

 

I like the idea of utilizing Base Points for Range.

 

I wonder what the cost of Deflection/Reflection will be.

 

I am not sure about the imposed limitation placed upon Deflection though, but then again I do not have the whole story yet.

[Hierax]

Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #4: Deflection, Reflection, And Range

 

Total pointless aside (he said' date=' desperately seeking a temporary reprieve from the Hell of Editation): every time I see this, here or in KODT, I think, "Man, I gotta remember to commission a picture for 6E FH featuring monsters with shotguns." [/quote']

 

Steve, your awesomeness knows no bounds!

[StGrimblefig]

Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #4: Deflection, Reflection, And Range

 

... If a character defines their 8d6 eb as a thrown rock a defender can Deflect it barehanded but if someone else defines their a plasma bolt they cannot. ...

If that character can do 8d6 with a thrown rock, I would say it is not possible to Block it barehanded -- unless the defender takes the damage to his hand. If you meant that the Deflect Power (capital P) is thusly limited by special effects, I would say it depends upon the genre and the GM. In this respect, it is only as limited as you want it to be. There is no spoon.

 

Darth Vader did not seem to have a problem deflecting Han's blaster bolt when they meet for the first time in The Empire Strikes Back

yet lost his hand to Luke in Return of the Jedi when fighting with light sabers

That's because a lightsaber is an elegant weapon, not so clumsy or random as a blaster.

 

It's funny that this came up, as I just recently watched "Ryan vs. Dorkman" again (and RvD2).

[ghost-angel]

Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #4: Deflection, Reflection, And Range

 

For those who are looking at the part about requiring something to block aN incoming attack - please note Steve used the word "usually".

[Beast]

Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #4: Deflection, Reflection, And Range

 

My sentiments exactly

Range based on base points. I Like

 

needing a focus to perform a deflection/ reflection. I do not like

 

 

as a side note using suppress to get the effect of partial or fully negating attack would be 1 way to go

As it gives you points to base how good the power is

a 10d6 suppress might be good vs small arms but have limited effect vs tank cannons

 

 

 

I like the idea of utilizing Base Points for Range.

 

I wonder what the cost of Deflection/Reflection will be.

 

I am not sure about the imposed limitation placed upon Deflection though, but then again I do not have the whole story yet.

[StGrimblefig]

Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #4: Deflection, Reflection, And Range

 

Total pointless aside (he said' date=' desperately seeking a temporary reprieve from the Hell of Editation): every time I see this, here or in KODT, I think, "Man, I gotta remember to commission a picture for 6E FH featuring monsters with shotguns." [/quote']

Sounds like that should have been in Urban Fantasy Hero.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #4: Deflection, Reflection, And Range

 

needing a focus to perform a deflection/ reflection. I do not like:p

 

you should go back and read Steve's post again. You seemed to have missed at least one key word.

[StGrimblefig]

Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #4: Deflection, Reflection, And Range

 

needing a focus to perform a deflection/ reflection. I do not like

I didn't read it that way.

 

As I understood it:

• Anyone can attempt to Block a ranged attack aimed at themselves -- this usually requires something to block with. It is not a focus, because this Block is not a Power, it's just a good idea.
  
• Deflection is a Power that may or may not have the Focus Limitation applied to it -- just like any other Power.
  
• Reflection is a separate Power that also may or may not have a Focus.
  

 

Anyway, that's how I read it.

[nexus]

Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #4: Deflection, Reflection, And Range

 

If that character can do 8d6 with a thrown rock, I would say it is not possible to Block it barehanded -- unless the defender takes the damage to his hand. If you meant that the Deflect Power (capital P) is thusly limited by special effects, I would say it depends upon the genre and the GM. In this respect, it is only as limited as you want it to be. There is no spoon.

 

What a players calls their EB is special effects. They don't typically have a major effect in Hero System but can provide situational bonuses and penalties at the GM's discretion. That additional damage could be exceptional accuracy, being able to find "chinks" their opponents or even just dumb luck. Even if it is just pure handwavium I don't think the additional bit of verbiage attached to the Power isn't very Hero particularly if its worded like the example (deflecting lasers with your bare hands is a bad bad idea). Why? I can Block a 10 foot sword swung by a giant with my barehands unless the GM says otherwise.

 

If the book is also aimed at newbies who will not have totally grasped the ideas of sfx and Reasoning from Effect statements like that will make an impression particularly in the core rules It reads very much like giving the power a default OIF: Object of opportunity and Gestures or Restrainable as well (IME, many players assume Missile Reflection is restrainable by default anyway) and a default special effect. In a way like stating the Energy Blast should usually be used to represent laser, blaster bolts and magical rays in its write up.

 

But again, we haven't seen the entirety of the rule as it will appear in print but I confess I'm dubious on that section of the write up as it stands.

[Alibear]

Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #4: Deflection, Reflection, And Range

 

you should go back and read steve's post again. You seemed to have missed at least one key word.

 

usually

[mattingly]

Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #4: Deflection, Reflection, And Range

 

"Man' date=' I gotta remember to commission a picture for 6E FH featuring monsters with shotguns." [/quote']

How about flying monkeys with submachine guns?

 

And don't forget the other related power, Inflection; that requires Incantations and a Skill Roll, but gets bonuses based on the Language Chart.

[Beast]

Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #4: Deflection, Reflection, And Range

 

yes I missed 1 thing about it being an every man skill and needing a focus

 

IMO it should be a power only

 

But going with it as an everyman skill ,unless the focus for the most part is a shield or similar device

and the focus should be able to withstand 75% of the body generated on average of the attack and then be destroyed or made useless by the attack

Otherwise you could have Joe Q Public pull out a penny and block an attack from Dr Destroyer(granted I have a character who does just that,but the penny is just a trademark defense and a SFX

 

from my 24 yrs of playing Champions/Hero System

Very few buy missile defection and even fewer buy reflection

So to remove in effect Deflection(unless you are going to do it at range to pre-detonate area attacks or save others) the whole thing should be a power

 

 

 

 

 

 

I didn't read it that way.

 

As I understood it:

• Anyone can attempt to Block a ranged attack aimed at themselves -- this usually requires something to block with. It is not a focus, because this Block is not a Power, it's just a good idea.
  
• Deflection is a Power that may or may not have the Focus Limitation applied to it -- just like any other Power.
  
• Reflection is a separate Power that also may or may not have a Focus.
  

 

Anyway, that's how I read it.

[nexus]

Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #4: Deflection, Reflection, And Range

 

IIUC, the ability to use a Block maneuver against Ranged attacks is now a basic (universal) ability?

 

Edit: Nope, my bad. I misread. Sorry about that!

 

And I must correct myself again. I can't say I agree with the ability to block ranged attacks being a basic part of Block.