Our Super Leaders

[Asperion]

Several people have recently asked how things would change if supers existed. Now lets take this in a different direction. Not long ago some charismatic supers were able to work themselves into Congress. Over time they were able to manipulate things so that only supers were placed in Congress and other government positions (including Pres and Supreme Court) and today being a super is a requirement for running for any office. This also applies to the state and city government as well. Anyone who does not have innate powers is a "lesser person" and is basically around to serve the super master. Just what would they do to these lesser people? Just what changes would they make? Any other comments would be greatly appreciated.

[bubba smith]

Re: Our Super Leaders

 

Several people have recently asked how things would change if supers existed. Now lets take this in a different direction. Not long ago some charismatic supers were able to work themselves into Congress. Over time they were able to manipulate things so that only supers were placed in Congress and other government positions (including Pres and Supreme Court) and today being a super is a requirement for running for any office. This also applies to the state and city government as well. Anyone who does not have innate powers is a "lesser person" and is basically around to serve the super master. Just what would they do to these lesser people? Just what changes would they make? Any other comments would be greatly appreciated.

magneto would love this reality

sounds like that kind of policy would be unconstitutional

[Chuckg]

Re: Our Super Leaders

 

To change the laws so that only supers could seek elective office would require repealing not only portions of US civil rights law, but certain provisions of the 14th amendment.

 

The former is touching the political third rail of death, the latter even more so... and a constitutional amendment requires you to have 2/3rds of both houses of Congress and majority votes from 3/4ths of all 50 state legislatures, at minimum.

 

So, in what way short of mass mind control did they convince most of the population of the US that this was a good idea first? The Constitution is nigh-impossibly hard to alter in any fundamental aspect by design.

[Supreme Serpent]

Re: Our Super Leaders

 

Agreed, very unlikely short of mass mind control. And if you have mass mind control, why bother rewriting the rules?

 

More likely (though still unlikely) scenarios might involve a conspiracy among the prominent supers. Why run the government when you can have others do it for you? Some officials would be happy to do things for the JLA. Others can be corrupted. Those that make trouble can be eliminated or framed.

 

Or maybe instead of the requirement being super powers, it's an unofficial requirement for higher office to be super smart. After President Richards set up the formulas to keep the budgets balanced, wiped out the deficit/debt and came up with a workable missile shield by Jan. 21st the bar would be set pretty high. If you've got enough of these guys working together, could be tough to beat. But if they're so smart, again they may not need to be in office themselves - should be able to figure out ways to get the govt to do what they want or just bypass it.

[Chuckg]

Re: Our Super Leaders

 

Also, its a fundamentally different thing from 'nobody running against a super-intelligent candidate has a chance of winning' than 'you can't even be allowed to run unless you're super'. The former is the voters choosing the person of clearly superior ability, the latter is separation by caste.

[Clonus]

Re: Our Super Leaders

 

Not particularly believable but here are some variations on the theme:

 

Once upon a time there was a world where the United States had tens of thousands of superhumans, plus the kind of technology that gave humans a reasonable facsimile of superpowers if you were a genius or had millions to spend on a genius. One day, a famous and charismatic superhero who was starting to slow down decided the way he could do the most good was by retiring from superheroic and going into politics. He made it all the way to President did a good job, and from then on "superhero" was just as good as "war hero" as a winning credential for public office without even having to wait for a good successful war. Someone who hadn't been a superhero, or at least the spouse of a superhero might as well throw in the towel if they were running against a respected hero or ex-hero. Rich men with political aspirations would spend tens of millions to get their own power simulating costumes or genetic treatments so they or their children or their sponsored candidates could build an acceptable resume of heroics. Perhaps the most devastating political combo was that of a politician and his or her still active superhero spouse. Every time Ms Wonderful saved the day, she struck a blow for Senator W's re-election campaign, and she was very photogenic as well.

 

Did they amend the constitution to reserve elective office for superhumans? Why bother?

 

Then there's another approach.

 

Once upon a time, there was a nation when human and metahuman came to blows, in a shattering war that destroyed the American government. There was a brief period of anarchy and then a new constitutional convention in which it was agreed. Henceforth the seats of the Senate would be reserved for metahumans while the seats of the House of Representatives would be occupied by the non-powered. This would assure the metahumans that they could always block another metahuman draft act. From now on there would be two Co-Presidents, one from each side and they had to jointly agree on every Executive order. Voters would vote for both Presidents, and both the metahuman and non-powered houses to try to ensure that moderates would be elected since they needed votes from both sides to get elected.

[kickback]

Re: Our Super Leaders

 

I think there are more efficient ways to stage a coup.

 

Also, how many superhumans exist in your world? You'll need about 670 bodies just to replace Congress, The Supreme Court, and the top of the Executive Branch. Thousands more to replace state governments. Millions if you take it to the city level.

[Metaphysician]

Re: Our Super Leaders

 

Indeed. Unless the percent of superhumans is extremely high, there's no way you could have a large nation where government office required superhuman ability. Granted, it depends on exactly what level of office requires superhuman members. . .

 

As Kickback mentioned, it'd take over 600 just to fill out the top of the federal government. Even if everyone, super and baseline alike, agreed that superhuman oligarchy was right and just, you'd still need something like ten times that number of superhumans to even conceive of filling that many government positions. After all, not everyone wants to be a politician, not everyone is suited for politics, not everyone would get along with the rest of the government official-supers, and also, there's tons of other things that superhumans need to do, like protecting the nation.

 

So, conservatively speaking, your looking at six thousand supers in the US alone. That's one out of five hundred people. Not many settings have a proportion that high, not even close.

[Yansuf]

Re: Our Super Leaders

 

So, conservatively speaking, your looking at six thousand supers in the US alone. That's one out of five hundred people. Not many settings have a proportion that high, not even close.

 

I think that you need to check your math.

6,000 out of 300,000,000 is one per 60,000.

 

But if you want all senior state officials such as governors, state legislators, etc. to be super your number for required supers is low.

[Yansuf]

Re: Our Super Leaders

 

Several people have recently asked how things would change if supers existed. Now lets take this in a different direction. Not long ago some charismatic supers were able to work themselves into Congress. Over time they were able to manipulate things so that only supers were placed in Congress and other government positions (including Pres and Supreme Court) and today being a super is a requirement for running for any office. This also applies to the state and city government as well. Anyone who does not have innate powers is a "lesser person" and is basically around to serve the super master. Just what would they do to these lesser people? Just what changes would they make? Any other comments would be greatly appreciated.

 

I cannot suspend my disbelief that much.

 

Certainly it would require a new (or completely revised) constitution.

Just cannot see it happening; I could see supers taking over the country, but I cannot believe they would set up things the way you suggest if they did.

 

I can see a significant number of high ranking elected officials being supers, by simply winning elections. And I could see significant numbers of supers being appointed to high positions, if they appear to be the most qualified: for example Reed Richards as head of DARPA.

[tkdguy]

Re: Our Super Leaders

 

I vaguely remember this cartoon.

 

[Yansuf]

Re: Our Super Leaders

 

I vaguely remember this cartoon.

 

 

Wow!

[Asperion]

Re: Our Super Leaders

 

This could happen - look at Nazi Germany. Think that it could not happen again. While not on the national level, there are several examples of modern day groups that are essentially the same thing, only on a small scale. Think about what is going on today with the national heath care, regardless of the opinion that you have of it and you can draw several parallels with the pre-WWII Nazis. Several super-supporters in the right place could unknowingly be pushing forward such an agenda. While doing this would require years to accomplish, it could happen, and not be as hard as everyone seems to think it would be. It would start off small - one or two supers in Congress each election would quickly add up to the simple majority that is required to pass most new laws. "Convincing" Supreme Court Justices to rule their way on certain issues, and replacing the retiring Justices with supers. Then when they are ready to go public with their plans, they will on the first election put a super in the Presidency. Sure conspiracy theorists would be telling others around that this is going on, but this would be easy to deal with. Before they would start at the national level, they would be quietly working on all the states so that when a Constitutional amendment is necessary, they will be able to get it passed. I estimate that this will require a minimum of 15 years to accomplish.

[Chuckg]

Re: Our Super Leaders

 

To have a majority of both houses in Congress requires an absolute minimum of 218 Congressmen and 51 Senators. Electing this many will require either the takeover of one of the two major political parties extant, or the founding of a third party that grows so large as to utterly replace one of the big two.

 

Add in also that to replace Supreme Court Justices you will need the Presidency, and not just once but every time a justice retires, and you are talking about a conspiracy that will have hundreds of members, require several decades, and be pissing in the cornflakes of every single major player already in the political game, because every single election that you've won (and you need to pretty much keep winning them all) is an election they've lost, and their opposition research machines will all be wondering why. Plus, your conspiracy must maintain 100% secrecy for the entire time, and nothing known to hundreds of co-conspirators ever remains perfectly secret for long.

 

Odds ain't good. Especially when you consider that other supers might notice what's going on... one of the master supervillains, if nothing else, as some of them pay close attention to political trends.

 

And the instant the dime is dropped in public, well, that's it.

[Ian Mackinder]

Re: Our Super Leaders

 

Problem is that this has a lot in common with that thread about superpower registration not so long ago. First off, one has to nail down what exactly is or isn't a superpower - it isn't nearly as simple as racial or religious discrimination, after all.

 

For instance, where do self-enhanced "Normals" stand in relation to supers born with powers? Would a "normal" in powered armour qualify? Possibly not. What about if someone else then artificially boosted the first guy's IQ through the proverbial roof? Does he qualify then? Think about it.

 

Then, of course there are the really "freaky" normals - top-of-the-heap pro athletes, or REALLY good at just one skill, or can wriggle their ears, or do that thing with their big toe, and so on. Some of these may or may not be due to "paranormal" abilities. Assuming, of course, that one can come up with a workable definition of paranormal to start with (two dudes with a Ouija board?).

 

If going with something like Marvel's Mutant thingie (which always seemed bodgy to me), then we have mutants (who may or may not actually be able to do the job) in power - and a need to deal with a slew of disenfranchised mortals AND aliens AND artificial beings AND savants AND mystics AND ... so on.

 

OK, a particular super or group of supers can rise to dominate a government, but this is more likely to be in a dictatorial / monarchical fashion or from behind the scenes, I think.

 

... AND this thread's premise sort of pre-supposes that one can get a big enough bunch of supers to work as a team on this, support all the same politics without factionalizing and so forth, in any case.

 

Ain't gonna happen.

[Clonus]

Re: Our Super Leaders

 

This could happen - look at Nazi Germany. Think that it could not happen again. While not on the national level' date=' there are several examples of modern day groups that are essentially the same thing, only on a small scale. Think about what is going on today with the national heath care, regardless of the opinion that you have of it and you can draw several parallels with the pre-WWII Nazis. [/quote']

 

No, I can't. To duplicate the success of the Nazis you'd have to first of all find a scapegoat to blame for everything that is wrong. Skrulls, maybe. But then you'd have to convince people that superhumans would be more effective than humans in political positions when dealing with the threat. That's a hard sell, particularly when it seems obvious that superhumans would be more effective as actual superheroes than they would be as superpoliticians.

[assault]

Re: Our Super Leaders

 

Completely and studiously ignoring the off-topic "could Nazi Germany happen again?"...

 

Bulletman developed his enhanced intelligence himself. Any dedicated human scientist could have done the same (with a bit of luck). If he hadn't destroyed the formula, he could have handed it out to anyone he felt like.

 

In a pinch, the super leaders could easily end up facing a whole bunch of really irate former normals. They would need to watch their step.

 

Of course, that's based on certain assumptions as to the setting - but it's precisely such assumptions that make any particular setting what it is.

 

Oh, and a hypothetical American fascism would be American, not German.