AI with remote "puppet" body

[Kristopher]

I'm trying to build an NPC for my science fiction game that I hope to start running this spring for the regular group.

 

The characters will, until the learn otherwise, see a regular person. However, the "person" they're interacting with is actually a remote "puppet" body for an AI.

 

Suggestions so far have been based on Duplication, Summoning, Automaton, and Follower.

 

Also, does the "puppet" need to duplicate all of the Skills of the AI in order for the AI to use them remotely?

[Marcus Impudite]

Re: AI with remote "puppet" body

 

I'd go with a Follower with Mind Link myself.

[Kristopher]

Re: AI with remote "puppet" body

 

Sorry, almost forgot to ask, does the "puppet" need all the same INT, EGO, etc, as the AI "mind"?

 

 

If the connection is ever lost because of jamming or whatever, the body will fall "unconscious".

[Sean Waters]

Re: AI with remote "puppet" body

 

I'd make the avatar an automaton and then Mind Link. You can build it as a follower, or a summon. If the avatar can act independently then you need some way to drive it when it is not under direct control: an onboard computer, if you go with automaton. It needn't have the same characteristics as the AI.

 

If the automaton ONLY operates from the direct control of the AI then sell back INT to zero and don't install a computer brain.

 

I would think that, as the controlling intelligence, the AI can use its own skills through the Automaton, using the Automaton's DEX (and possibly PRE), but its own INT.

 

Haven't really looked at 6e Automata yet.

[prestidigitator]

Re: AI with remote "puppet" body

 

Interesting. We allow a Computer to control a Vehicle's movement and actions, so why not a different type of body with a character sheet? Hmm. Oh! I know, I know! Buy the "body" as a Vehicle with Persistent Shapeshift to make it look like a real body!

 

No, really. What's the difference between that and just letting the AI control a normal character? Summon with Slavishly Loyal, or a Follower, or a Vehicle, or Duplication. Hmm. Yeah. I'd consider any of those, or even a Mind Control sufficiently powerful to convince the target that the AI's Will shall be taken as Law. Mind Link couldn't hurt, but I always hate dealing with the "seeing through target's senses isn't allowed by Mind Link" thing. Clairsentience seems like just such a painful and unnecessary thing to have to include with this sort of build....

[jtelson]

Re: AI with remote "puppet" body

 

Is the actual controlling AI ever likely to be present sans Avatar? If not I'd tend to go with it as a special effect for Ressurection.

[Kristopher]

Re: AI with remote "puppet" body

 

Is the actual controlling AI ever likely to be present sans Avatar? If not I'd tend to go with it as a special effect for Ressurection.

 

The controlling AI will probably end up installed in the PC's ship, they're just not going to realize that it's an AI instead of a computer, and that the "puppet" isn't a real person.

[Kristopher]

Re: AI with remote "puppet" body

 

Interesting. We allow a Computer to control a Vehicle's movement and actions, so why not a different type of body with a character sheet? Hmm. Oh! I know, I know! Buy the "body" as a Vehicle with Persistent Shapeshift to make it look like a real body!

 

No, really. What's the difference between that and just letting the AI control a normal character? Summon with Slavishly Loyal, or a Follower, or a Vehicle, or Duplication. Hmm. Yeah. I'd consider any of those, or even a Mind Control sufficiently powerful to convince the target that the AI's Will shall be taken as Law. Mind Link couldn't hurt, but I always hate dealing with the "seeing through target's senses isn't allowed by Mind Link" thing. Clairsentience seems like just such a painful and unnecessary thing to have to include with this sort of build....

 

Huh. Yeah, hadn't thought about it, but requiring Clairsentience does seem a bit excessive.

 

The body is going to be a synthetic biological body, not a machine, if that makes any difference other than SFX.

[Bloodstone]

Re: AI with remote "puppet" body

 

I presume the AI can function on the ship and in the body at the same time?

 

I think Duplication is probably my first instinct, but it might be needlessly expensive due to Altered Duplicates. In that case, I would go with a Follower.

 

Ultimately, it sounds like a normal character with a mind link to the AI and that's probably how it's going to function most of the time. You might give the AI Clairisentence, if it can use the body's senses as remote video/audio feeds. Mind Link doesn't cover that sort of thing.

 

The fact the body turns off when it's cut off from the AI's signal is a major league physical complication and a limitation on the Mind Link/Clairisentience.

 

If the AI is able to use all of it's skills and abilites through the body, the body needs most of those skills and abilites. You might be able to skip some KS's, since giving the answer to some obscure trivia question is pretty easy to transfer through a Mind Link.

[jtelson]

Re: AI with remote "puppet" body

 

The controlling AI will probably end up installed in the PC's ship' date=' they're just not going to realize that it's an AI instead of a computer, and that the "puppet" isn't a real person.[/quote']

 

I'd build the 'Controlling' AI as the Character's Computer - Give the Character Resurrection (Won't work if AI has been Wiped) and call it a day.

[secretID]

Re: AI with remote "puppet" body

 

Sounds like perfect Follower or Summon, depending on whether the physical body is always around. Duplication always seems clunky for this kind of thing.

 

I definitely think that everything, including skills, will have to be paid for for the body, if that was your question. Since the AI character is already getting the huge 1/5 benefit of Follower or Summon, I don't think it gets to do the skill (or characteristic) "transfer" for free. Using one of those constructs implies to me a separation such that everything would be bought separately. That doesn't mean that the body would have to have everything that the AI has, though.

 

If the Mind Link can be jammed (Flashed, etc.), then that's a physical disad (er..."complication?"). If not, well, Dispel might still apply, so there should be some accounting for that.

 

If a direct, immediate sensory link is part of the character, then I guess it would be Clairsentience. Might Transmit for the senses work? I've never looked much at that. It's probably more expensive.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: AI with remote "puppet" body

 

I think some more background sfx questions need to be answered before moving on to hero mechanics.

 

Does the AI actually need to maintain a communications link from its main location?

(Summoned Automaton with Mind Link & Clairvoyance/sentience?)

 

Does the AI download a condensed version of itself into a robot body that can operate independently of the original?

(Duplication with Mind Link?)

 

Does the AI actually move itself completely into the robot body (leaving its original location similarly to 'Astral Projection')?

(Multiform?)

[Kristopher]

Re: AI with remote "puppet" body

 

I think some more background sfx questions need to be answered before moving on to hero mechanics.

 

Does the AI actually need to maintain a communications link from its main location?

(Summoned Automaton with Mind Link & Clairvoyance/sentience?)

 

Does the AI download a condensed version of itself into a robot body that can operate independently of the original?

(Duplication with Mind Link?)

 

Does the AI actually move itself completely into the robot body (leaving its original location similarly to 'Astral Projection')?

(Multiform?)

 

The first one.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: AI with remote "puppet" body

 

I think some more background sfx questions need to be answered before moving on to hero mechanics.

 

Does the AI actually need to maintain a communications link from its main location? (Summoned Automaton with Mind Link & Clairvoyance/sentience?)

 

The first one.

 

Hmmm...how about Duplication with either a Physical Limitation on the Duplicate (cannot move/act if communications link is broken), or a limitation on Duplication that the Duplicate is "eliminated" if communication is broken?

 

The former would seem reasonable if shutdown of the jamming field allows the AI to reassert control. The latter would simulate a need for a host body to be brought back in range of the AI before he can reanimate it (ie use Duplication again).

 

Perhaps the breaking of communication could be simulated with a Susceptibility to jammed communications (AI takes an INT and EGO drain; at 0 it cannot act), or a Dependence on the communication link remaining active (same effects)?

[jtelson]

Re: AI with remote "puppet" body

 

Dependance - Contact with AI: Ego Drain rather than Damage.

[torchwolf]

Re: AI with remote "puppet" body

 

Reasoning from how systems are constructed, it would be logical to assume that motor skills (Agility or other DEX-based) that the parent AI would have no other use for could reside in the remote drone body, as well as maybe basic programming reasonably more efficiently used by a slave unit.

Advanced programming requiring direct remote control by the AI and seldom-needed databases could reside in the AI.

Game Info: Follower, Machine Intellect Physical Disadvantage (literal interpretation, no self-initiative, etc.) or the already suggested EGO Drain.

EGO, KS, SCI and other abilities provided by the AI could be bought as UBO (2 simultaneously) which handily can be configured to apply to LOS (in this case Radio or Mind Link). In this case, the AI might also have Mind Scan, Only To Locate And Reestablish Contact With Drone Body.

 

As an aside, the drone could, instead of a total shutdown in case of comm failure, activate a basic subroutine that makes the drone say "I'm so depressed" or "I'm so tired I can't think straight. Just tell me what to do." to cover for the contingency of loss of initiative capability. You could also name the drone Marvin.

[prestidigitator]

Re: AI with remote "puppet" body

 

I think we're supposed to get some kind of Possession power or something in the Advanced Player's Guide. I wonder how useful that will be for this sort of thing. Hmm.

[Phil]

Re: AI with remote "puppet" body

 

It's a NPC right? Well, hell, I wouldn't even bother building it! It is what it is.

 

GM: Aha! Turns out that body was just the vehicle for an AI, which has now taken over your shipboard computer!

Jeff: Oh my grief! Now we're in trouble! Although I'm interested, how did you actually build that using the Hero rules?

GM: With a whoosh!, the ship's internal defences turn on your character Jeff. Oh dear, 45 Stun, 19 Body. Anyone else got any rules questions?

 

[phookz]

Re: AI with remote "puppet" body

 

It's a NPC right? Well, hell, I wouldn't even bother building it! It is was it is.

 

GM: Aha! Turns out that body was just the vehicle for an AI, which has now taken over your shipboard computer!

Jeff: Oh my grief! Now we're in trouble! Although I'm interested, how did you actually build that using the Hero rules?

GM: With a whoosh!, the ship's internal defences turn on your character Jeff. Oh dear, 45 Stun, 19 Body. Anyone else got any rules questions?

 

 

That's what I would suggest. If youe really needed to build it, or just wanted to, I think jtelson's suggestion of SFX on regeneration is probably the way to go. The other suggestions seem more of an effect from reason approach, rather than a reason from effect.

[Lucius]

Re: AI with remote "puppet" body

 

Clairsentience, with Linked Telekinesis, and linked Images (Limited to one appearance) all with the Limitation of Physical Manifestation and/or Focus.

 

The body is the Physical Manifestation (or Focus) of the abilities the AI has bought.

 

The AI buys Acting skill to "Act Human" and the Images power represents the ability to look (sound, smell, etc) Human.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Insert palindromedary tagline here

[prestidigitator]

Re: AI with remote "puppet" body

 

I think the trouble with the Physical Manifestation is that everything the human shell can do is going to have to be bought with some very weird combinations of Ranged (MegaScale), Indirect, etc. It's asking for more trouble than it's worth IMO.

[Lucius]

Re: AI with remote "puppet" body

 

I think the trouble with the Physical Manifestation is that everything the human shell can do is going to have to be bought with some very weird combinations of Ranged (MegaScale)' date=' [i']Indirect[/i], etc. It's asking for more trouble than it's worth IMO.

 

How many things can it do?

 

Clairsentience and Telekinesis will cover most of it. Skills are bought by the AI - it can use them via the Clairsentience and or Telekinesis, they don't need Range or anything. Both Clairsentience and Telekinesis are already Indirect.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Looking up a palindromedary in an indirectory

[Jhamin]

Re: AI with remote "puppet" body

 

How many things can it do?

 

Clairsentience and Telekinesis will cover most of it. Skills are bought by the AI - it can use them via the Clairsentience and or Telekinesis, they don't need Range or anything. Both Clairsentience and Telekinesis are already Indirect.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Looking up a palindromedary in an indirectory

 

I think the real problem is that buying a character this way makes damaging them really weird. If you go by the rules of Physical Manifestation they will hum along happily until their phys manifestation gets broken, then they are out of the adventure until a spare can arrive. That isnt' fun for the guy who misses everything after the first big fight when his team keeps going on, and it isn't any fun for everyone else that has to wait for his new body to get to where the adventure is. If you give the physical manifestation Stun or a Rec stat, then you basically have bought a duplicate & should really just use that power.

 

Some would see this as a feature, but from my point of view a character that isn't really there does all kinds of weird things to the gaming experience. There is no way to capture him short of blowing him up & most threats won't apply to him. This is also why "Takes no Stun" is one of the few banned powers in my group. I don't think there is anything wrong with that power, I just don't want to deal with a player character I can't defeat without killing them or doing all kinds of contortions just for his benefit.

 

I really am leaning toward either buying duplication, or (and I'd go this way personally) just buying the body as the character with a mindlink to a computer and calling "the computer is really the character" the special effect on resurrection healing.

 

 

Believe it or not, this is not a new concept. I've been seeing this build debated since 4th edition and I'm sure it's older than that. Personally, I think the thing that everyone forgets is that hopefully when you are done you have a playable character. Some of the posts I'm seeing show some really great Hero-Fu in their designs, but actually end up not being very manageable in a game where everyone else just wants to play their Flying Brick or Martial Artist. If your build makes your character take twice as long to play, it isn't' a good build.

[Roth]

Re: AI with remote "puppet" body

 

As the AI (and drone) are NPCs, unless the PCs are actually going to attack the thing I wouldn't stat it out at all. I'd just create the AI (if absolutely needed) and hand wave the rest.

 

If there is a chance the Drone could be attacked by the PCs, then build it like a vehicle or a dupe.

[tarragon]

Re: AI with remote "puppet" body

 

The APG has a couple of cool options that could work. Projection (Physical projection side bar specifically) provides a way for the AI to project it's consciousness out as a body. Merging and Possession would allow the AI to take control of a separately built robot body. Which could then have a minimal computer brain for when the AI isn't there.

 

If the AI has consciousness at both itself and the robot body I would go with duplication. The APG even suggests this in it's discussion of Projection.