tkdguy Posted October 26, 2009 Report Share Posted October 26, 2009 This article suggests there may be more than we thought, perhaps enough for life to flourish. http://www.physorg.com/news174918239.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted October 26, 2009 Report Share Posted October 26, 2009 Re: Oxygen on Europa Dang. Europa is sounding more and more like the place to go in the Jovian system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundog Posted October 26, 2009 Report Share Posted October 26, 2009 Re: Oxygen on Europa Only if you want to fry - iirc, Europa's right in the middle of Jupiter's Radiation bands, isn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Mackinder Posted October 26, 2009 Report Share Posted October 26, 2009 Re: Oxygen on Europa Only if you want to fry - iirc' date=' Europa's right in the middle of Jupiter's Radiation bands, isn't it?[/quote'] I'm sure whatever's living on Europa likes it just fine. Funny. Wasn't so long ago that most experts seemed pretty sure that Earth was the only place in the Solar System with life. OK, we haven't actually found it elsewhere "yet", but the odds seems to be getting better and better that there is life (at least microbial, and potentially more) all over the place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCoy Posted October 26, 2009 Report Share Posted October 26, 2009 Re: Oxygen on Europa Only if you want to fry - iirc' date=' Europa's right in the middle of Jupiter's Radiation bands, isn't it?[/quote'] I could be wrong, but I believe Io gets a heaver dose of radiation than Europa. Mind you, Europa still gets a lot! But funny thing, couple miles of water is pretty good radiation shielding! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Mackinder Posted October 26, 2009 Report Share Posted October 26, 2009 Re: Oxygen on Europa But funny thing' date=' couple miles of water is pretty good radiation shielding![/quote'] If I recall rightly, about one foot of water equates to about a half inch of lead shielding? Something like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCoy Posted October 26, 2009 Report Share Posted October 26, 2009 Re: Oxygen on Europa If I recall rightly' date=' about one foot of water equates to about a half inch of lead shielding? Something like that.[/quote'] According the the always accurate and authoritave Wikipedia, 1 cm of lead will cut the radiation in half, as will 18 cm of water. So that was pretty close. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiation_protection Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobGreenwade Posted October 26, 2009 Report Share Posted October 26, 2009 Re: Oxygen on Europa At least one theory suggests that not only is a high level of oxygen a requirement for complex life, but simple plant life is a requirement for a high level of oxygen. That rule, as I heard it, was intended only for a gaseous atmosphere, but I think it does have a significant implication for Europa. With 0.134g, it could even have gigantic whale-like fish as its dominant life form. Or, potentially, sapient squids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cancer Posted October 26, 2009 Report Share Posted October 26, 2009 Re: Oxygen on Europa My understanding is that Europa is unofficially "off limits" to in situ probes until we can solve the problem of being absolutely certain that we won't contaminate its potential biosphere with terrestrial organisms. (Never mind the issue we can't get anything through that surface ice layer at present; sterilization issues have to be answered first.) Ideally, I suppose, rather than penetrate down into that subsurface ocean, there could be frozen biological remnants in the surface ice. that's still out of our present capacity, but I think it fulfills both the moratorium and feasible near-future missions to the moon. An issue for any mission to Europa will be power. The Jupiter system is beyond the point where solar panels are useful as a power source, so the only thing we have now is RTGs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyrath Posted October 26, 2009 Report Share Posted October 26, 2009 Re: Oxygen on Europa But for me, the point is that in our solar system, there is one planet with "warm" life (Earth), and possibly four with "cold" life (Europa, Enceladus, Ganymede and Titan). If all four have life, and this is representational, this means in the galaxy in general cold life will outnumber warm life by about four to one. Some SF authors opine that warm life interstellar empires and cold life interstellar empires can interpenetrate. This is due to the fact that we really don't covet each other's real estate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clsage Posted October 26, 2009 Report Share Posted October 26, 2009 Re: Oxygen on Europa But for me' date=' the point is that in our solar system, there is one planet with "warm" life [i'](Earth)[/i], and possibly four with "cold" life (Europa, Enceladus, Ganymede and Titan). If all four have life, and this is representational, this means in the galaxy in general cold life will outnumber warm life by about four to one. Some SF authors opine that warm life interstellar empires and cold life interstellar empires can interpenetrate. This is due to the fact that we really don't covet each other's real estate. I can see a joint starship crew: navigation by "aquatics" due to their potentially greater ability to "think in 3D" (helpful in space travel, I would think) and "primates" in engineering and propulsion..... My slightly greater than $.02US. -Carl- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jagged Posted October 26, 2009 Report Share Posted October 26, 2009 Re: Oxygen on Europa Some SF authors opine that warm life interstellar empires and cold life interstellar empires can interpenetrate. This is due to the fact that we really don't covet each other's real estate. Dang methane breathers! *Jagged xenophobia momentarily gets the better of him* Apologies to any methane breathers reading this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyrath Posted October 26, 2009 Report Share Posted October 26, 2009 Re: Oxygen on Europa I can see a joint starship crew: navigation by "aquatics" due to their potentially greater ability to "think in 3D" (helpful in space travel' date=' I would think) and "primates" in engineering and propulsion.....[/quote'] I believe that was STARTIDE RISING by David Brin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DusterBoy Posted October 26, 2009 Report Share Posted October 26, 2009 Re: Oxygen on Europa Does anyone else recall the scene in the book of 2010: Odyssey II where the Chinese expedition to Europa gets killed by the creature that had come from beneath the ice to investigate the lights by the Chinese astronauts. And in Startide Rising the primates are both superchimps and humans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clsage Posted October 26, 2009 Report Share Posted October 26, 2009 Re: Oxygen on Europa I believe that was STARTIDE RISING by David Brin Never read it....at least, not yet. But that might explain some of the other sources I have seen (eg: mentions of modified dolphins in The Journal Of The Travelers Aid Society, etc). -Carl- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clsage Posted October 26, 2009 Report Share Posted October 26, 2009 Re: Oxygen on Europa Does anyone else recall the scene in the book of 2010: Odyssey II where the Chinese expedition to Europa gets killed by the creature that had come from beneath the ice to investigate the lights by the Chinese astronauts. Yep...And in the book "The Art Of 2010" (as I recall the title...a graphic tie in for the movie) they have a gag drawing of the Chinese spacecraft, designed to look like a take out carton, since that scene was purged from the movie.....I always think of that scene now when I see documentaries about exploring Europa. -Carl- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawnmower Boy Posted October 26, 2009 Report Share Posted October 26, 2009 Re: Oxygen on Europa Dang methane breathers! *Jagged xenophobia momentarily gets the better of him* Apologies to any methane breathers reading this I bet methane breathers work cheap! Now, I wonder if they can operate some second-hand sewing machines my buddy is looking at in Shanghai? How hard can it be to produce genuine made-on-Europa outsourced Calvin Klein lookalikes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyrath Posted October 26, 2009 Report Share Posted October 26, 2009 Re: Oxygen on Europa Never read it....at least' date=' not yet. But that might explain some of the other sources I have seen (eg: mentions of modified dolphins in The Journal Of The Travelers Aid Society, etc).[/quote'] Startide Rising http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Startide_Rising http://billwardwriter.com/startide-rising-review/ sample chapter http://davidbrin.com/startiderising1.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCoy Posted October 26, 2009 Report Share Posted October 26, 2009 Re: Oxygen on Europa But for me' date=' the point is that in our solar system, there is one planet with "warm" life [i'](Earth)[/i], and possibly four with "cold" life (Europa, Enceladus, Ganymede and Titan). Ganymede? Are you counting Mars as warm? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyrath Posted October 27, 2009 Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 Re: Oxygen on Europa Ganymede? Are you counting Mars as warm? I guess Mars should count as warm. There was a reason Ganymede was excluded, but I forget what. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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