Lock-On System

[SteveZilla]

Re: Lock-On System

 

I'm not entirely certain this is even possible within the rules without inventing new stuff, but hey.

 

The idea is to have a weapon linked to a sensor with visual identification software; you 'lock on' to a particular target, and then the weapon will not fire unless the locked target is what's in front of the gun.

 

In game/meta-terms, the weapon doesn't fire unless you hit. If you need a 12- to hit, and roll a 13+, no ammo/END is expended and you don't have to worry about collateral damage.

 

I have no idea how to go about this. Anybody?

 

Edit: Oh yeah, forgot. 5e.

 

How much time can elapse between the "Lock-On" and the firing of the weapon?

 

In BattleTech, there are missle weapons called "Streak SRMs" (Short Range Missiles). Streak launchers only fire if the attack roll (the "lock") is successful, but they fire immediately.

 

My take on the "Fire Only If You'd Hit":

 

60 Big Gun: 4d6 RKA (60 Active Points) - Only Useable Via Trigger(-0) (I don't know what the Power is that you are wanting this ability for, so I made one up. )

 

30 Sometimes Fires, Never Misses: Naked Advantage: Trigger (Defined Condition: Successful Attack Roll With Trigger, Zero Phase to Activate, Zero Phase to Reset; +1/2) on Big Gun (30 Base Points) - Zero END(+1/2)(45 Active Points); Extra Time: Attack Action(-1/2)

[Sean Waters]

Re: Lock-On System

 

Depending on how loose you are willing to be, one option is buy twice as many charges but agree with the GM that shots only go off it they lock on: the extra charges are there to make sure you do not get an unfair advantage from the concept, but don;t do anything other than balance the books: if you want 16 shots, buy 32: about half your shots would miss anyway - this way you have 16 shots that do not go off unless it would be a hit.

 

Of course it is never quite that simple: using this method, or the cover one, is still an attack action: it ends your phase. If you want to be able to act freely if you do not have the shot, trigger has to be the way to go.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Lock-On System

 

That seems more like a 'Safety' system than a "Lock-On" system.

 

If you're going to invest that many points why not actually make the attack more accurate?

 

27 Generic Gun: Killing Attack - Ranged 2d6 (vs. PD), 4 clips of 32 Charges (+1/2), Autofire (5 shots; +1/2) (60 Active Points); OAF (-1), Beam (-1/4) - END=[32]

34 AI Targeting Computer (Naked Advantages): No Range Modifier (+1/2), Area Of Effect Accurate (up to One Hex; +1/2), Continuous (+1) for up to 60 Active Points of Generic Gun (120 Active Points); OAF (-1), 1 Continuing Fuel Charge lasting 1 Minute (Battery; -3/4), Concentration, Must Concentrate throughout use of Constant Power (1/2 DCV; Must keep target visible in "Scope"; -1/2), Linked (Generic Gun; -1/4)

[Notes: Continuous represents the actual "Target Lock" of the weapon but additional charges from the gun still have to be used on following phases.] - END=[1 cc]

 

Also, from the FAQ:

 

How does an Autofire Continuous attack affect a target?

 

It continues to affect the target with the same number of shots that hit him the first time.

 

The Cover maneuver could still be used by the operator for the initial shot with this build. Once an attack (bullet) actually hits the target then all future bursts are automatic hits (just like the gun from 5th Element).

 

[Sean Waters]

Re: Lock-On System

 

Nice

[Fireg0lem]

Re: Lock-On System

 

I also agree with the Cover suggestion, this should be built as +2 OCV with Cover.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Lock-On System

 

How much time can elapse between the "Lock-On" and the firing of the weapon?)

 

I'm thinking Lock-on was a poor choice of words, but I couldn't think of any other way to describe it. It's more like a 'safety', I think.

 

It's an instant thing; the weapon is programmed that it will not fire unless what's directly in front of the barrel is a designated target. Imagine if you could wave an Uzi around in a crowded room, and it wouldn't fire unless an actual enemy was in front of the barrel.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Lock-On System

 

I'm thinking Lock-on was a poor choice of words, but I couldn't think of any other way to describe it. It's more like a 'safety', I think.

 

It's an instant thing; the weapon is programmed that it will not fire unless what's directly in front of the barrel is a designated target. Imagine if you could wave an Uzi around in a crowded room, and it wouldn't fire unless an actual enemy was in front of the barrel.

 

Well, perhaps a kind of Trigger would work better. Thing is, with a Trigger it's still possible to miss. But maybe the system isn't fool-proof in any case. You could do it with the trigger plus an OCV bonus that makes it difficult to miss. Then you really only have to worry about wasting ammo or hitting unintended targets if your real target is small, fast, difficult to detect visually, etc. Seems like that would make sense for such an automated system.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Lock-On System

 

....

It's an instant thing; the weapon is programmed that it will not fire unless what's directly in front of the barrel is a designated target. Imagine if you could wave an Uzi around in a crowded room, and it wouldn't fire unless an actual enemy was in front of the barrel.

 

When does a target become "designated"?

What determines whether or not a target is an "actual enemy"?

 

That almost sounds like an AI with onboard sensers added on top of my previous build.

 

If you want the ability to "wave an Uzi around" and only hit "designated" targets you might also consider using AOE Selective (still keeping AOE 1 Hex Accurate to determine the individual target's DCV).

[SteveZilla]

Re: Lock-On System

 

When does a target become "designated"?

What determines whether or not a target is an "actual enemy"?

 

That almost sounds like an AI with onboard sensers added on top of my previous build.

 

If you want the ability to "wave an Uzi around" and only hit "designated" targets you might also consider using AOE Selective (still keeping AOE 1 Hex Accurate to determine the individual target's DCV).

 

AoE, Selective does requre To-Hit rolls against individual target's DCVs (in 5ER).

[SteveZilla]

Re: Lock-On System

 

I'm thinking Lock-on was a poor choice of words, but I couldn't think of any other way to describe it. It's more like a 'safety', I think.

 

It's an instant thing; the weapon is programmed that it will not fire unless what's directly in front of the barrel is a designated target. Imagine if you could wave an Uzi around in a crowded room, and it wouldn't fire unless an actual enemy was in front of the barrel.

 

But the weapon doesn't fire itself when a designated target is in front of the barrel, right? It still takes an Attack Action from the person holding the gun?

 

If you have a hyper-strict GM - one that tracks out all "misses" to see what they *did* hit, then I can understand creating complicated builds. But IMO it could just be a combination of the Conserved Charges Limitation from 6E, and Special Effect. The Special Effect is "I Fan my Gun All Over The Place like Spray-and-Pray, but it only fires at legit targets", and the Conserved Charges limit because, by the SFX, "misses" don't happen.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Lock-On System

 

AoE' date=' Selective does requre To-Hit rolls against individual target's DCVs (in 5ER).[/quote']

 

Which is precisely why I included the part about using AOE 1 Hex Accurate as well. It is quite legal to buy more than one instance of AOE on the same power.

 

example:

 

19 Smart Grenade: Killing Attack - Ranged 2d6 (vs. PD), Area Of Effect Accurate (One Hex; Only to determine accuracy of 'Selective'; +1/2), Area Of Effect (3" Radius; +1), Selective (+1/4) (82 Active Points); 1 Charge (-2), OAF (Grenade; -1), Range Based On Strength (-1/4) - END=[1]

 

Each piece of 'shrapnel' is self guided via 1 Hex Accurate vs. each Selective target.

[SteveZilla]

Re: Lock-On System

 

I'm puzzled. Could you refresh my memory what AoE: 1 Hex, Accurate does (by itself)?

[Narf the Mouse]

Re: Lock-On System

 

I'm puzzled. Could you refresh my memory what AoE: 1 Hex' date=' Accurate does (by itself)?[/quote']

You roll vs. DCV 3 to hit the target.

[SteveZilla]

Re: Lock-On System

 

Hm. I've never used AoE 1 Hex Accurate before. I thought you could get more effect for the same cost (in general) by buying 2 pt CSLs. And I never really saw the point of it, and tended to think of it as a "Munchkin build". But I've also never thought to built a power with dual AoE Advantages, so maybe it's just me.

 

Can the AoE 1H-A (by itself or in combination with a larger Selective AoE), be:

1. Dodged?

2. Dived-for-Cover away from?

3. Missile Deflected/Reflected?

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Lock-On System

 

I'm not sure about 1 and 3 off the top of my head, but why is 2 even a question? What can't you Dive for Cover away from?

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Lock-On System

 

1. Yes, by a strict rules interpretation. However, the Dodge bonus and any CSL's that can be used with it only adds to a DCV 3 (not the character's normal base DCV).

 

2. Yes.

 

3. No. Unless the attack was also built with the "Can be Missile Deflected" Limitation.

 

On a similar note, I would build the missiles used by Iron-Man vs. the terrorists holding a hostage (in the live action movie) with a combination of AOE Selective and AOE 1 Hex Accurate. All Limitations (like Charges) can be applied to the entire construct and can also be combined with CSL's (whether they are part of the armor or just Stark's skill) as well.

[SteveZilla]

Re: Lock-On System

 

1. Yes' date=' by a strict rules interpretation. However, the Dodge bonus and any CSL's that can be used with it only adds to a DCV 3 (not the character's normal base DCV).[/quote']

 

The fact that any CSLs and Maneuver bonuses adds to the DCV of 3 is consistent with an attack against a single target. And IMO it would be wrong for a power to be neither dodgeable, nor dive-for-cover-able.

 

2. Yes.

 

Ad Bigby said, "What *can't* you DfC from? So while nothing prevents this, I find it to be an "off-label" use of the medicine. My old group and I never used DfC except vs AoE attacks, preferring to Dodge everything else. Useing DfC (and Breakfall of course) against HtH attacks just felt wrong to us.

 

3. No. Unless the attack was also built with the "Can be Missile Deflected" Limitation.

 

Strenge, I thought that since it was attacking individual targets (the AoE simply making it attack more than one individual target), they *could* be Deflected. And then there is the (outside the discussion) consideration of SFX...

 

On a similar note' date=' I would build the missiles used by Iron-Man vs. the terrorists holding a hostage (in the live action movie) with a combination of AOE Selective and AOE 1 Hex Accurate.[/quote']

 

I thought they were bullets, but 6:a dozen...

 

Other than lowering the effective DCV of your opponent, what does the AoE 1 Hex Accurate do? What part of Iron Man's attack, when reasoning from Effect, says not one but two AoE advantages?

 

All Limitations (like Charges) can be applied to the entire construct and can also be combined with CSL's (whether they are part of the armor or just Stark's skill) as well.

 

How would one account for the number of targets determining the number of charges used by such a power? I would expect such a power to use more bullets/rockets for more targets, and less for fewer targets.

 

"All Limitations ... can also be combined with CSL's"? Am I grossly mis-reading you on that part?

[Sean Waters]

Re: Lock-On System

 

If you can do this for one target, why not several?

 

I mean, THIS will work:

 

87 points: Killing Attack - Ranged 2d6, Area Of Effect (32m Radius; +1), Selective (+1/4) (67 Active Points) PLUS 10 Combat levels with this attack

 

OK, doesn't guarantee a hit, but then nothing does really - and I've worked out what was bugging me about the 'Cover' maneuver - cunning as the idea is - you can get out of it with a PRE attack - that doesn't sound like something that really ought to affect a weapon targeting system to me.

 

On this one, as it is a single attack (albeit involving multiple attack rolls) - well - what do you think - can you apply the CSLs to all attacks or do you have to divvy them between targets? If you need to divvy then you probably need a good few more levels, to be reasonably sure.

 

I'm swerving back towards a 'house' advantage: Can't Miss +1.

 

You could still DFC if you could break LOS or get out of range.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Lock-On System

 

Double post

[jtelson]

Re: Lock-On System

 

OK' date=' doesn't guarantee a hit, but then nothing does really - and I've worked out what was bugging me about the 'Cover' maneuver - cunning as the idea is - you can get out of it with a PRE attack - that doesn't sound like something that really ought to affect a weapon targeting system to me.[/quote']

 

Doesn't the target need an opportunity to do something to break cover to get the PRE attack (Look! Wayne Newton!), whereas applying damage (and expending ammo) to a covered opponent is 'at will'?

 

Were I doing a setting where Lock-On was normal (Fighter Pilot Hero, Space Death Robot Armor Hero, etc) I would likely just develop a Lock-On Maneuver that works like cover but uses Sys Ops (Electronic Warware) contested to break (Maybe DEX attacks vs Int rather than PRE attacks vs. PRE to simulate maneuvers). Then designate weapons as - Locking or Not Locking (much in the way you need an Autofire weapon for Suppression Fire)

[Sean Waters]

Re: Lock-On System

 

Doesn't the target need an opportunity to do something to break cover to get the PRE attack (Look! Wayne Newton!), whereas applying damage (and expending ammo) to a covered opponent is 'at will'?

 

Were I doing a setting where Lock-On was normal (Fighter Pilot Hero, Space Death Robot Armor Hero, etc) I would likely just develop a Lock-On Maneuver that works like cover but uses Sys Ops (Electronic Warware) contested to break (Maybe DEX attacks vs Int rather than PRE attacks vs. PRE to simulate maneuvers). Then designate weapons as - Locking or Not Locking (much in the way you need an Autofire weapon for Suppression Fire)

 

PRE attack is an example of something that can break the 'cover' manoeuvre - from the target or someone else - but any distraction could work - it just does not seem appropriate for a weapon system - now I appreciate this is a bit different - you'd roll to hit with the cover manoeuvre and then fire immediately, so the opportunity for distraction is limited, but it still bugs me that it could happen.

 

I still favour an advantage though - you know where you are in terms of cost/utility - and it would be useful for stuff like homing weapons:

 

(ATTACK) with 'Can't Miss' (+1), Requires a normal roll to hit - if failed may try again up to 4 times on subsequent phases -1/2, Physical manifestation -1/4

 

There you have a 'classic' homing missile - that can be avoided or knocked down but makes several attack attempts until it hits or gets bored. Very clear, easy build, too.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Lock-On System

 

....

 

I thought they were bullets, but 6:a dozen...

 

Other than lowering the effective DCV of your opponent, what does the AoE 1 Hex Accurate do? What part of Iron Man's attack, when reasoning from Effect, says not one but two AoE advantages?

 

 

 

How would one account for the number of targets determining the number of charges used by such a power? I would expect such a power to use more bullets/rockets for more targets, and less for fewer targets.

 

"All Limitations ... can also be combined with CSL's"? Am I grossly mis-reading you on that part?

 

re: Iron Man

 

from:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0371746/goofs

Revealing mistakes: The woman holding her son in the scene where Iron Man saves the villagers by shooting darts on the bad guys has a French manicure.

 

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0371746/trivia

The sound used during a target lock on in Iron Man's Head Up Display (HUD) is the sound of the laser cannon firing in the original Space Invaders game.

 

1 Hex Accurate is a great way to build "Target Lock" imo.

 

It means that if the target doesn't move from the hex it's in then the attack virtually ignores the target's DCV (it just uses the Hex's DCV instead).

 

Let's say we wanted to model a heat-seeking missile.

 

Using this method a pilot lines up a 'good tone' on his HUD and fires a missile. There are basically 3 possible outcomes:

1. a hit

2. the missile doesn't track and misses badly (the pilot rolled an "18").

3. the target jinks and the missile barely misses (jink=DFC).

 

re: Charges

I would probably just add a Custom Limitation on top of the Charges Lim itself to denote that the # of "Selective" targets fired on also uses up Charges as well. Another reason to make the attacks all that more accurate since it's such a limited resource (physical projectiles vs. general suite energy for glove repulsors)

 

re: CSL's

Sorry about the lack of clarity there. I know lots of folks find it distasteful to add CSL's to framework slots. I would probably build the armor with some general CSL's (usable with ALL attacks) but the missile/dart use of HUD seemed to indicate a higher order of accuracy than the glove blasters. Using AOE 1 Hex Accurate is a perfect way to put both attacks into a single multipower.

[IndianaJoe3]

Re: Lock-On System

 

OK' date=' doesn't guarantee a hit, but then nothing does really - and I've worked out what was bugging me about the 'Cover' maneuver - cunning as the idea is - you can get out of it with a PRE attack - that doesn't sound like something that really ought to affect a weapon targeting system to me.[/quote']

 

This may not be an issue, depending on concept. If the attack is made immediately, there's no chance for the target to break the Cover.

 

I'm swerving back towards a 'house' advantage: Can't Miss +1.

 

You could still DFC if you could break LOS or get out of range.

 

That's about what I figured it was worth (basing it on AoE: Radius, Single-Target Only), but you may need to add No Range Modifier.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Lock-On System

 

This may not be an issue, depending on concept. If the attack is made immediately, there's no chance for the target to break the Cover.

 

 

 

That's about what I figured it was worth (basing it on AoE: Radius, Single-Target Only), but you may need to add No Range Modifier.

 

Good point but I'd probably assume that NRM was included, otherwise it gets silly expensive, and relatively prohibitive to build an effective weapon which always hits...even at +1 you are halving the DC at any given cost point, and making advantage stacking look attractive.

[Lucius]

Re: Lock-On System

 

- and I've worked out what was bugging me about the 'Cover' maneuver - cunning as the idea is - you can get out of it with a PRE attack - that doesn't sound like something that really ought to affect a weapon targeting system to me.

 

So buy Levels with Cover, with a limitation the cover only works long enough to actually hit. If you DON'T "pull the trigger" and fire right away, you lose the lock.

 

That sounds like what the Original Poster was looking for.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

What is the palindromedary looking for?