What's in a Name?

[AlHazred]

So, I've got lots of races for my fantasy campaign. In many cases I take a race from another game (let's say Warforged from Eberron), file off the serial numbers (call them Forgeborn, change mithril to elven-silver and adamant to dwarven-steel), and I'm good to go. Changing the name and a few details makes me feel better, like I'm not shamelessly copying someone else's work, even though I am, sort of.

 

Now, one of the races I've got is Gloranthan Trolls. They're magically associated with Shadow and Darkness, and are generally scary characters. I've been considering what name to call them, but it's tricky -- the name Troll fits them so well, it's hard for to think of another.

 

I've been considering the pros and cons of Grues. They aren't used much, are already associated with darkness, and are scary as well. What does the collective think of this? Also, there are Dark Trolls (the mosty common), Great Trolls, Mistress Race Trolls (the most powerful) and Trollkin. I could maybe call Trollkin "Grueslings" but what about the rest?

[LordGhee]

Re: What's in a Name?

 

Shame shame on you shamless AlHazred, you should at least use the name to give credit of the use and it allow players to understant what they are seeing. This assume a commanality of reading sources.

 

you say Grueslings and I say how we cook them. You say troll and I Run ect.

 

 

 

Lord Ghee

[Markdoc]

Re: What's in a Name?

 

So, I've got lots of races for my fantasy campaign. In many cases I take a race from another game (let's say Warforged from Eberron), file off the serial numbers (call them Forgeborn, change mithril to elven-silver and adamant to dwarven-steel), and I'm good to go. Changing the name and a few details makes me feel better, like I'm not shamelessly copying someone else's work, even though I am, sort of.

 

Now, one of the races I've got is Gloranthan Trolls. They're magically associated with Shadow and Darkness, and are generally scary characters. I've been considering what name to call them, but it's tricky -- the name Troll fits them so well, it's hard for to think of another.

 

The alternate Gloranthan name is Dark Folk, which gives a slighty better vibe, in some ways, IMO than Troll: too many players these days see "troll" and think "big, dumb and regenerates" - where really, only the first the first applies.

 

Grue's not bad (though be prepared for Sergio Aragone jokes) but you could also just stick with Troll. I use it in my game and the players have learned that "troll" just means any large magical, man-like beastie.

 

cheers, Mark

[Lucius]

Re: What's in a Name?

 

I hate the name "grue" personally.

 

LA

p

[Karmakaze]

Re: What's in a Name?

 

Do you have anything else you'd already be referring to as 'trolls'?

[Susano]

Re: What's in a Name?

 

I recall seeing "trew" as a variant of "troll."

 

You could always wiki troll and see what the variants and origins of the word are.

[RexMundi]

Re: What's in a Name?

 

You could swipe the term Trolloc as well. Covers the bases. Still. Troll is Troll to me. Toss an element behind them (ie: Stone Troll), or a descriptive (ie: War Troll, Cave Troll), to break up the different types, and if you want to use Grue, it still works.

 

~Rex

[Odraude]

Re: What's in a Name?

 

AlHazred

What's in a Name?

So, I've got lots of races for my fantasy campaign. In many cases I take a race from another game (let's say Warforged from Eberron), file off the serial numbers (call them Forgeborn, change mithril to elven-silver and adamant to dwarven-steel), and I'm good to go. Changing the name and a few details makes me feel better, like I'm not shamelessly copying someone else's work, even though I am, sort of.

 

Now, one of the races I've got is Gloranthan Trolls. They're magically associated with Shadow and Darkness, and are generally scary characters. I've been considering what name to call them, but it's tricky -- the name Troll fits them so well, it's hard for to think of another.

 

I've been considering the pros and cons of Grues. They aren't used much, are already associated with darkness, and are scary as well. What does the collective think of this? Also, there are Dark Trolls (the mosty common), Great Trolls, Mistress Race Trolls (the most powerful) and Trollkin. I could maybe call Trollkin "Grueslings" but what about the rest?

 

 

Well there are always some good stuff to be found from Irish and English folklore. For example, fomorians were giants that were associated with chaos, something interesting for your concept. Other ideas may include ogres, oni, orc, troll, gog and magog... If you really need some inspiration for a creature, here's what I do. I look through different prefixes or words that may fit the personality and feel of the race. Then, you can corrupt the spelling or pronunciation, maybe add -kin, -folk, or some other suffix to the end and tada! New racial name.

 

For example, I had made a race of humanoids that were close to divine magic like elves are close to arcane magic. I started with the word grail, like holy grail, and with one simple letter change, they became the greil.

 

Here are some words for shadows and night. Hope it helps.

 

Shade

Umbra

Murk

Nocturne

Shift

-kage

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Hag_Syndrome

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shade_(mythology)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_people

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_play

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umbra

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darkness

[Cancer]

Re: What's in a Name?

 

You can look at other languages for equivalents. French, Italian, and all the Germanic languages use "troll" or very slight variations on that word, but Spanish is different. Languages more removed from English than those could give you a handy word that you can use straight, or mutilate only slightly and use.

 

You can do something malicious that will go undetected, too. From your deep past, choose someone you were acquainted with (but you expect never to see again) who seems troll-like, however you choose to interpret that. Then use their name or nickname as the race name for your trolls.

[AlHazred]

Re: What's in a Name?

 

Great responses all around! Thanks a lot guys, it's really helpful, since I've been thinking so much about races lately that my mind is going in circles.

Shame shame on you shamless AlHazred' date=' you should at least use the name to give credit of the use and it allow players to understant what they are seeing.[/quote']

 

Seriously though, I may be the only person who's endnoting his race documentation -- I figure if my players want inspiration or think something in there's really cool, I want to encourage that.

 

The alternate Gloranthan name is Dark Folk' date=' which gives a slighty better vibe, in some ways, IMO than Troll: too many players these days see "troll" and think "big, dumb and regenerates" - where really, only the first the first applies.[/quote']This is part of my thinking on the matter. Familiar names breed a false sense of familiarity, of the ordinary and everyday. I'm trying to break mental blocks, not cater to them! I'm not a shameless plagiarist; I'm avant-garde!

 

Do you have anything else you'd already be referring to as 'trolls'?

That's the other part of my thinking. I'd thought of including Tolkien Trolls, and they're drastically different from the Gloranthan variety. If I gave the Gloranthan ones a different name, then they'd be distinct from the Big-Ugly-Dumb variety.

 

I recall seeing "trew" as a variant of "troll."

In my equipment doc, "trews" are the archaic word I use for "trousers." Naming a race that would invite a bit of ribbing, I think.

 

You could always wiki troll and see what the variants and origins of the word are.

Thesaurus.com gives me: demon, dwarf, giant, gnome, goblin, hobgoblin, kobold, leprechaun, monster, mythical creature, ogre. Don't know if any of those are appropriate or unused in my game, although thinking of calling them Dwarfs makes part of me giggle insanely.

 

Interestingly, Thesaurus.com says this about "shade": apparition, bogey, haunt, manes, phantasm, phantom, revenant, shadow, specter, spirit, umbra, wraith. "Bogey," "manes," or "phantasm" might work.

 

You could swipe the term Trolloc as well.

That's from Wheel of Time' date=' right? I'll have to think on that. The first time I read that, I thought you'd put "Trollop" and thought "Hey, there's another Robert Aspirin's [i']Myth Adventures[/i] fan on the Hero Boards!"

 

If you really need some inspiration for a creature' date=' here's what I do. I look through different prefixes or words that may fit the personality and feel of the race. Then, you can corrupt the spelling or pronunciation, maybe add -kin, -folk, or some other suffix to the end and tada! New racial name. [sNIP'] Here are some words for shadows and night. Hope it helps.

 

Shade

Umbra

Murk

Nocturne

Shift

-kage

"Murk" is one I hadn't thought of. Dictionary.com tells me it comes from the Old Norse myrkr meaning "dark, darkness" which also gave the Old English word mierce "dark." Now I'm wondering if Myrker or Mierce might be usable.

 

You can do something malicious that will go undetected' date=' too. From your deep past, choose someone you were acquainted with (but you expect never to see again) who seems troll-like, however you choose to interpret that. Then use their name or nickname as the race name for your trolls.[/quote']Now I'm wondering if someone has done this evil thing to me in one of the games I used to play...

[Susano]

Re: What's in a Name?

 

My mistake, the book Giants give it as "trows", apparently a Scottish word.

[Lucius]

Re: What's in a Name?

 

My mistake' date=' the book [i']Giants[/i] give it as "trows", apparently a Scottish word.

 

Cognate, I believe, with Drow, which also has connotations of darkness (thanks Gygax) but carries baggage a Gloranthan Troll has no use for.

 

How about looking at the Gloranthan Troll Deity names?

 

Kyger Litor, The All-Mother, The Goddess of the Primal Dark Womb.

 

Zorak Zoran, The Berserker, The God of the Consuming Dark Rage.

 

Xiola Umbar, The Healer, Peace in Darkness, Goddess of the Solace of the Dark Deep Within.

 

I found this resource:

 

http://www.soltakss.com/people02.html

 

Apparently, the Trolls' own word for themselves is "Uz" and some of the types are

 

Uz Uz - Mistress Race

 

Uzko - Dark Troll

 

Uzdo - Great Troll

 

Enlo - Trollkin

 

Lucius Alexander

 

House of the Palindromedary

[Lucius]

Re: What's in a Name?

 

You know, the word "Troll" has meant so many different things, you could craft a fantasy world with a large diversity of different "races" just by using different "trolls"....

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary likes the Munchkin card Net Troll: "Has no special powers, and is mad about it."

[Markdoc]

Re: What's in a Name?

 

You know' date=' the word "Troll" has meant so many different things, you could craft a fantasy world with a large diversity of different "races" just by using different "trolls"....[/quote']

 

That's essentially what I have done: humans lump the different races and subraces of fey folk into "Pixies, nixies, elfs, giants and trolls" depending mostly on size and attitude. That's pretty much the original european atitude to such things - despite the giggles, it was quite possible for a dwarf to be a troll: to the premodern mind (at least in scandinavia) "troll" is a pretty broad category. One old Norse legend, about a farmer who had problems with a troll in one of his streams (a troll that looked like a beautiful young maiden) has this line "So Halvor went to see his cousin who was a troll - a big strong man with a black beard". Trolls can be undead too - in Grettir's sag, he fights a troll - a dead man called Glam who "did not lie easy in his grave". Gettir himself is thought to be a troll - when he fights Thorgir's men (and wins) Thorgir says "I always heard that Grettir was distinguished for his courage and daring, but I never knew that he was so skilled in magic as I now see he is; for there fall half as many again behind his back as before his face, and I see that we have to do with a troll instead of a man."

 

So "troll" is pretty broad: you can use it as you like

 

cheers, Mark

[Ragnarok]

Re: What's in a Name?

 

Going along with what a few people are already saying here, from my studies, the Norse "troll" really only refers broadly to evil or mischievous spirits/creatures.

 

The "big, ugly, dumb, regenerating" trolls many gamers envision is really only the production of fairy tale illustrations and decades of pigeon-holing by the RPG community.

[Old Man]

Re: What's in a Name?

 

 

I just wanted to say that "Gruesling" sounds like an awesome name for a siege engine.

 

For the race name, I'd go with "Ur-Grue". Like a regular Grue, but more horrific. If you slur it enough it's similar to "ogre", which might be good, or not.

[Susano]

Re: What's in a Name?

 

I think regenerating trolls come directly from Three Hearts and Three Lions.

[Susano]

Re: What's in a Name?

 

I just wanted to say that "Gruesling" sounds like an awesome name for a siege engine.

 

I'm partial to "Soldatenmangel" myself.

[Markdoc]

Re: What's in a Name?

 

I'm partial to "Soldatenmangel" myself.

 

Uhh - "Soldatenmangel" means "Lack of soldiers". Is that what you wanted?

 

cheers, Mark

[Susano]

Re: What's in a Name?

 

Uhh - "Soldatenmangel" means "Lack of soldiers". Is that what you wanted?

 

cheers, Mark

 

I probably misspelled it, as it's been some time since I read the story. It was supposed to translate at "soldier mangler." It was the name of a dragon, if I recall... or a siege weapon. I found it in a short story, years ago.

[Old Man]

Re: What's in a Name?

 

Dragons do make pretty good siege weapons.

[Susano]

Re: What's in a Name?

 

It also might have been a tank... it was that kind of story.

[Curufea]

Re: What's in a Name?

 

You can look at other languages for equivalents. French' date=' Italian, and all the Germanic languages use "troll" or very slight variations on that word, but Spanish is different. Languages more removed from English than those could give you a handy word that you can use straight, or mutilate only slightly and use.[/quote']

 

http://www.curufea.com/hero/doku.php/ws:race_names

[Markdoc]

Re: What's in a Name?

 

I probably misspelled it' date=' as it's been some time since I read the story. It was supposed to translate at "soldier mangler." It was the name of a dragon, if I recall... or a siege weapon. I found it in a short story, years ago.[/quote']

 

Ahh - a quick Google search turns up a short story about a dragon with that title by Victor Milán. So you remembered the name right ... it just looks like the writer didn't know what the word meant!

 

cheers, Mark

[Susano]

Re: What's in a Name?

 

So what would be "soldier mangler" in German?