Special Report: The End of Superheroes!

[Cassandra]

Re: Special Report: The End of Superheroes!

 

United Superheroes of America

 

Data File

 

Elliot Lauderdale

 

Elliot Lauderdale was the FBI Special Agent in Charge in Steel City during the reign of the corrupt Superhero team known as the Sentinels. He was suspected of cooperating with the group and taking bribes, but no charges were filed. After the group was forcibly disbanded aster the USA-CSA Civil WAR Sting Operation, he retired. He maintained close political ties with U.S. Senator Bradford Ashley (Liberty Party, Pennsylvania), and after the election of President Charles Stewart Lee was given a consulting position with the president's advisor on Superhuman Affairs, Dr. Lisa Madison.

[kahuna's bro]

Re: Special Report: The End of Superheroes!

 

verry interesting

[Ranxerox]

Re: Special Report: The End of Superheroes!

 

Most classic superheroes (as opposed to pulp "mystery men" do NOT "take the law into their own hands"; none of the classic DC superheroes were vigilantees. Even Batman did not try to "punish" the criminals, he immobilized them and left them for the police. If Joe Q. Redneck (or anyone else) sees a serious crime in progress they can act to stop it. (At least in the US.)

I truly do not see where you get that heroes action indicate that they believe might makes right. (Anti-heroes are another thing entirely.) Superman, Green Lantern, Wonder Woman, and the Flash never acted that way that I recall. Please give some examples.

 

It is illegal to physically assault some or to bind them and take them somewhere against their will. Prevention of crime is what is known as an affirmative defense against these charges. That means that if the accused (the superhero) can prove that he was preventing a serious crime he would be found not guilty of battery and kidnapping, but the burden of proof that a serious crime was being committed lies with him. If the district attorney believes that the superhero will be able to meet that burden of proof, the DA can choose not to prosecute the case against the superhero. Then again the DA would also be in his rights to pursue the case and force the superhero prove his defense. If it seems unlikely that the superhero will be able to prove his defense then the DA is ethically bound prosecute the superhero.

 

So, say a Doctor Wonderful forcefully stops a mugging in an alley, and leaves the muggers tied up in front of the police station. If the Doctor Wonderful, the muggers and the victim are the only witnesses and victim refused to testify then the muggers could claim whatever they liked. They could say that they were just playing dice in the alley when Doctor Wonder, showed up spewing racial epitaphs and attacked them. In this situation the district attorney would be pretty much obligated to pursue assault and battery and kidnapping charges against Doctor Wonderful, even though all that he did was the sort of thing that both Marvel and DC heroes do all the time.

[Clonus]

Re: Special Report: The End of Superheroes!

 

If the district attorney believes that the superhero will be able to meet that burden of proof, the DA can choose not to prosecute the case against the superhero. Then again the DA would also be in his rights to pursue the case and force the superhero prove his defense. If it seems unlikely that the superhero will be able to prove his defense then the DA is ethically bound prosecute the superhero.

.

 

There's a lot of wiggle-room in prosecutorial discretion, though.

[Cassandra]

Re: Special Report: The End of Superheroes!

 

This storyline takes place in the same universe as My Superhero Universe. The basic premise is that superhumans have always existed, and were originally worshiped as gods. Later as human technology advanced they were persecuted as witches and demons. During the American Revolution King George III attempted to use superhumans against the colonist, and George Washington offered the world's superhumans a safe place to live in exchange for fighting on our side. Costumes were worn to protect the superhumans from Tories, and the tradition stuck. Over the years superhumans have operated technically as bounty hunters. No one complains when disasters are prevented, and vigilantes (those who kill) are hunted by superheroes as well.

[wick]

Re: Special Report: The End of Superheroes!

 

I am surprised that more than a few nations are not ruled by superheros. Civilization, prosperity, and peace has softened or world outlook but the world has been a pretty cruel place (still is in many places in the world today even if we don't realise it.) how many ancient civilizations would use a nuke responsibly, some supers are the equivalent and all they have to do is be born. if humans were around they would be servants and pretty powerless too. not to mention tech would be lower, since the supers would not need some things and humans would not in a position to strive for tech.

[Cygnia]

Re: Special Report: The End of Superheroes!

 

How is the rest of the (democratic) world handling their supers when this is happening? Are they too swept up in an anti-meta furor or are they offering any sort of asylum/protection/sanctions against the US to those getting persecuted?

 

(I specify "democratic" as opposed to tyrannies/dictatorships/warlords)

[Nuclear Fridge]

Re: Special Report: The End of Superheroes!

 

I am surprised that more than a few nations are not ruled by superheros. Civilization' date=' prosperity, and peace has softened or world outlook but the world has been a pretty cruel place (still is in many places in the world today even if we don't realise it.) how many ancient civilizations would use a nuke responsibly, some supers are the equivalent and all they have to do is be born. if humans were around they would be servants and pretty powerless too. not to mention tech would be lower, since the supers would not need some things and humans would not in a position to strive for tech.[/quote']

GURPS I.S.T. looks at this topic. Several non-UN nations are "metarchies", ruled by a super, or a cabal of supers. The book does point out that it's an unstable setup, unless the ruler has piles of Mind Control or is indestructible...

[wick]

Re: Special Report: The End of Superheroes!

 

Supers are beings definitely capable of changing the world solely by themselves even at low power levels they can dramatically affect their local area. But certain other powers can change history greatly. With Teleportation or a significant amount of flight do you think the existence of the Americas would be a secret to say ...the ancient Egyptians? Controlling large empires would be easier with these powers plus long range telepathy/mind link or a speedster. Any nation without supers would be at a severe disadvantage economically and militarily. Imagine the Economic advantage a weather controller would be for an ancient Athens. Some supers are pretty much unstoppable against modern technology, how would the ancient Spartans fair against even one such opponent?

 

With that kind of initial set up why would Governments like Democracies, Republics, or Communism even develop?

 

Religion: Polytheism would rule. You have living beings with god like powers running around. I am sure the pantheon of gods would change over time as older ones are forgotten after a few hundred years and new ones are constantly added.

 

Powerful supers will likely recruit lesser supers that have certain powers to have those powers at their disposal.

[Chimera 12]

Re: Special Report: The End of Superheroes!

 

GURPS I.S.T. looks at this topic. Several non-UN nations are "metarchies"' date=' ruled by a super, or a cabal of supers. The book does point out that it's an unstable setup, unless the ruler has piles of Mind Control or is indestructible... [/quote']

 

Is that a comment aimed at the instability of these systems in general, though (which would be debatable, anyway -- autocratic systems of government of some stripe or other have been with us throughout human history), or is there some factor at work in that setting that specifically jinxes that kind of approach for supers in particular? I mean, how would El Jefe Magnifico's reign in La Republica de las Bananas suffer from his having superpowers instead of being just another guy with a moustache, exactly?

[assault]

Re: Special Report: The End of Superheroes!

 

Is that a comment aimed at the instability of these systems in general' date=' though (which would be debatable, anyway -- autocratic systems of government of some stripe or other have been with us throughout human history), or is there some factor at work in that setting that specifically jinxes that kind of approach for supers in particular? I mean, how would El Jefe Magnifico's reign in La Republica de las Bananas [i']suffer[/i] from his having superpowers instead of being just another guy with a moustache, exactly?

 

The main problem is that these governments lack social roots. Most Real World autocratic governments are based on the support, or at least tolerance, of ruling elites. This does not necessarily apply to metarchies, which are based on the individual abilities of the ruler or rulers, and subject only to their whims.

 

Once those rulers leave the scene for whatever reason their policies are likely to be completely reversed, leading to a situation of perpetual social and political flux.

[assault]

Re: Special Report: The End of Superheroes!

 

With that kind of initial set up why would Governments like Democracies' date=' Republics, or Communism even develop?[/quote']

 

Because the supers aren't necessarily the day to day rulers.

 

Supers have families, and it isn't necessarily the case that the most personally powerful member of the family is going to be the political leader.

 

Furthermore, just because there is a god-king sitting in the temple/palace doesn't mean that the priesthood aren't really running things, or even that there isn't a secular government that keeps the tribute flowing in in exchange for "protection".

 

All of those allow republican governments. The latter would even allow an ancient Greek style democracy.

 

The main problem would be that such systems would only last for as long as the supers permitted them to, but then super-autocracies aren't particularly stable either.

[assault]

Re: Special Report: The End of Superheroes!

 

That is the reason why having a history of Super powered beings should not result in a modern world that closely resembles the real life modern world. Sort of like time traveling' date=' the farther you go back in time and change things, the greater the divergence from our own time line. Throw in powerful and/or influential people, and they cannot help to change things.[/quote']

 

It's easy enough to turn this on its head: the modern world wouldn't be like it is without the presence of superbeings. Or, if you prefer, without the specific superbeings that were present, and what they actually did.

 

Let's face it, without superscience, we'd stuck with bicycles and steam engines. We wouldn't have the Internet, or even the telephone, but instead would be stuck with the telegraph, at best. And where would modern medicine be without the groundbreaking research of Dr Frankenstein?

 

The same kind of arguments can apply to politics, religion... you name it.

 

In other words, you don't need to assume that superbeings would make the world different - you can instead assume that they made the world the same.

 

Details will vary, of course.

[Nuclear Fridge]

Re: Special Report: The End of Superheroes!

 

Is that a comment aimed at the instability of these systems in general' date=' though (which would be debatable, anyway -- autocratic systems of government of some stripe or other have been with us throughout human history), or is there some factor at work in that setting that specifically jinxes that kind of approach for supers in particular? I mean, how would El Jefe Magnifico's reign in La Republica de las Bananas [i']suffer[/i] from his having superpowers instead of being just another guy with a moustache, exactly?

 

I'm not sure, really - nice nod to the Junta boardgame, there - but the I.S.T. sidebar seems to suggest that a super 'presidente' would sabotage his own rulership because he's got more psychiatric issues than the combined inmates of Arkham Asylum, and that his nation would not long stand for his raving egomania.

[Chimera 12]

Re: Special Report: The End of Superheroes!

 

The main problem is that these governments lack social roots. Most Real World autocratic governments are based on the support, or at least tolerance, of ruling elites. This does not necessarily apply to metarchies, which are based on the individual abilities of the ruler or rulers, and subject only to their whims.

 

Once those rulers leave the scene for whatever reason their policies are likely to be completely reversed, leading to a situation of perpetual social and political flux.

 

Well, yes, most successful autocratic governments are based on the support of ruling elites. We rarely hear about the failed attempts for long for some reason.

 

That said, nothing specifically prevents a superpowered individual or group from gaining that support just like "baseline" autocrats manage to do from time to time; there is no mandatory correlation between the presence or absence of superpowers and political skill...

 

...Of course, the downside of that is that they probably also won't find the job significantly easier. Most of us couldn't pull off a political coup if our lives depended on it, after all; how many supers will be any more qualified just because they got bitten by a radioactive suit of power armor from another dimension?

[Doctor Agenda]

Re: Special Report: The End of Superheroes!

 

I am stealing the bounty hunter framework for superhero operations for my just-started Secret History campaign, as well as assault's 'supers are the reason why the world is the way it is' reasoning. Of course in Secret History, the familiar modern world is largely a facade constructed to conceal the activities of Reptoids, Grays, and an Inhuman-like hidden race.

 

The useful thing about conspiracy theories, is that you start at the end and work your way back. The same can be done with a superhero setting (which tend to be at least partly conspiratorial anyway), to explain why your setting is the way it is, both in its differences and its similarities to the real world.

[Doctor Agenda]

Re: Special Report: The End of Superheroes!

 

This storyline takes place in the same universe as My Superhero Universe. The basic premise is that superhumans have always existed' date=' and were originally worshiped as gods. Later as human technology advanced they were persecuted as witches and demons. During the American Revolution King George III attempted to use superhumans against the colonist, and George Washington offered the world's superhumans a safe place to live in exchange for fighting on our side. Costumes were worn to protect the superhumans from Tories, and the tradition stuck. Over the years superhumans have operated technically as bounty hunters. No one complains when disasters are prevented, and vigilantes (those who kill) are hunted by superheroes as well.[/quote']

 

Supers can be very useful to the powers-that-be, a super-favor in return for a political favor could help keep the laws favorable to costumed crimefighters. DAs who go after superheroes may find that supercriminals like communities where heroes are as hampered by the law as they are. Most places may well have an understanding that you don't turn the full force of the law on superheroes who act in good faith if you don't want the villains to get out of hand.

[starblaze]

Re: Special Report: The End of Superheroes!

 

First Clash!

 

SuperTechCon 2010 was an annual convetion showcasing advanced technology. It drew a crowd of billoinaires, high tech fans, and superheroes. This year it was being held in Angel City, a large West Coast city. The main attraction was the Clark Enterprises Omega Generator, a zero point module that offered the possibility of unlimited cheap energy.

 

Ten powered armor mercenaries that crashed the convention in order to steal it.

 

Cost Char Val

0 STR 10

0 DEX 10

0 CON 10

0 BODY 10

0 INT 10

0 EGO 10

0 PRE 10

0 COM 10

0 PD 2

0 ED 2

0 SPD 2

0 REC 4

0 END 20

0 STUN 20

Total Characteristics Cost: 0 Points

 

Cost Skills

2 CSL: EB +1

3 Teamwork 11-

Total Skills Cost: 5 Points

 

Cost Powers

16 Armor +8 rPD +8 rED, OIF: Powered Armor (-1/2)

20 EB 8d6, [16c] (-0), OAF: Assault Cannon (-1/2)

7 ES: Radio Perception and Transmit, OIF: Powered Armor (-1/2)

20 Flight 10", No END (+1/2), OIF: Powered Armor (-1/2)

15 STR +15, No Figured Characteristics (-1/2), No END (+1/2), OIF: Powered Armor (-1/2)

12 DEX +4, SPD +1, OIF: Powered Armor (-1/2)

3 PRE +5, OIF: Powered Armor (-1/2)

Total Powers Cost: 95 Points

 

Total Cost: 100 Points

 

50+ Disadvantages

20 Hunted: Superheroes (More Powerful/NCI) 8-

15 Hunted: Supervillains (More Powerful) 8-

15 PsyL: Mercenary (Common/Strong)

Total Disadvantages Cost: 100 Points

 

And they shall call it Turtle Armor!

[starblaze]

Re: Special Report: The End of Superheroes!

 

It is illegal to physically assault some or to bind them and take them somewhere against their will. Prevention of crime is what is known as an affirmative defense against these charges. That means that if the accused (the superhero) can prove that he was preventing a serious crime he would be found not guilty of battery and kidnapping, but the burden of proof that a serious crime was being committed lies with him. If the district attorney believes that the superhero will be able to meet that burden of proof, the DA can choose not to prosecute the case against the superhero. Then again the DA would also be in his rights to pursue the case and force the superhero prove his defense. If it seems unlikely that the superhero will be able to prove his defense then the DA is ethically bound prosecute the superhero.

 

So, say a Doctor Wonderful forcefully stops a mugging in an alley, and leaves the muggers tied up in front of the police station. If the Doctor Wonderful, the muggers and the victim are the only witnesses and victim refused to testify then the muggers could claim whatever they liked. They could say that they were just playing dice in the alley when Doctor Wonder, showed up spewing racial epitaphs and attacked them. In this situation the district attorney would be pretty much obligated to pursue assault and battery and kidnapping charges against Doctor Wonderful, even though all that he did was the sort of thing that both Marvel and DC heroes do all the time.

 

This reminds me of Superman Returns when Lex Luthor goes free because Superman wasn't around to testify at his trial.

[Cassandra]

Re: Special Report: The End of Superheroes!

 

A Private Conversation

 

"Sukune Sakai?"

 

"The name on the door says Sam Smith, Private Investigator"

 

"Clever disguise. One would never thing that you were once the greatest assassin in the Imperial Japanese Navy."

 

"My mother was American. You haven't changed much, Ilsa."

 

"It's Lisa now. And my powers give me a natural form of cryogenics. Besides, I was in the cooler for a long, long time."

 

"So how did you get out?"

 

"I've made new friends. They call themselves the CABAL, and they have a lot of pull. Even got me a position in the new Administration."

 

"Why are you here?"

 

"To do you a favor."

 

"I don't need anything from you."

 

"No strings attatched. In fact, I'm not even here. Remember a certain Naval Intelligence Officer who made it her business to keep you from ever returning to Japan after the war."

 

"I don't know what you're talking about."

 

"Of course not. Anyway, this woman got a certain captured assassin to talk. I can't imagine how. Disgraced him. Humilitated him. Too bad her name was classified."

 

The blonde woman puts a sealed envelope onto the P.I.'s desk, smiles, and walks out.

[Cassandra]

Re: Special Report: The End of Superheroes!

 

National News Company Nightly News with Nikki Forrest

 

"Good Evening. The White House annouced that the Crisis Response, Intelligence, Security, & Investigation Service will be decommisioned pending a review in the wake of the disappearance of it's Director, Navy Captain Cassidy J. Young. Young, a former Naval Intelligence Officer, advisor to Presidents Maxwell and Clark, and Ambassador to England and Atlantism, vanished from her Georgetown apartment complex one week ago. So far an investigation has found no clues to her whereabouts. General Alexander Clifford's Operation STOPGAP will become the primary U.S. Government reaction force to any superhuman threat.

 

Meanwhile, Atlantian King Poseidon has announced that he will retire after nearly one thousand years on the throne. Most analyst believe that current Atlantian Ambassador to the United Nations. Prince Neptune II, Poseidon's son will become the next King of the Hidden Ancient Mid-Atlantic Kingdom. Neptune is currently acting as a superhero in conjunction with the United Nations Law Enforcement & Security Service.

 

A new NNC/Washington Mail poll indicates growing support for President Lee's proposed Superhuman Registration Act. Currently 40 Percent support the act, with 40 percent opposed, and 20 percent undecided. That's up from 35 percent support one month ago.

 

Coming up, do the current generation of superheroes messure up? NNC investigates.

 

More after this . . ."

[New Hero]

Re: Special Report: The End of Superheroes!

 

I love this thread!

 

Wish I had something more substantial to add, but consider this thread bookmarked! I can't wait to read what happens next.

 

I was going to ask a question about how the McCarthy-era Justice Society disbanded and vanished instead of unmasking before the Committee, but considering how many times the DCU has been rebooted and retconned, I figure 'What's the point?'.

 

I will now return to lurking in the shadows and reading this wonderful thread.

 

Is President Lee based on Dub-ya, by chance?

[Cassandra]

Re: Special Report: The End of Superheroes!

 

Eagle Network News

 

"The Justice Department announced an unexpected increase in supervillain crime last month. Despite the creation of the government approved team called The Enforcers, and the organization known as Operation STOPGAP, there has been a twenty-five percent increase in crimes involving superpowered individuals. The recent attempted take over of the Justice City Medical Center by the Crime Doctor, stopped only by the Siren and Nemesis, is just one example."

 

"General Alexander Clifford, director of Operation STOPGAP, stated that while the Enforcers were dispatched to the Medical Center the matter had already been resolved by the pair of heroines. When questioned on whether the Siren or Nemesis would be charged with costumed vigilantism, Clifford replied with a no comment. The Justice City Police Department stated that the Siren had local police powers, and Nemesis, a new crimefighter from Libety City, had been deputized for the duration of the emergency."

 

"Senator Bradford Ashley, who is currently pushing a superhuman registration act through congress, stated that the proposed law was needed to deal with the increase of supervillainism. Senator Brooke Taylor Steven, who opposes the law, offered a different point of view."

 

"The United Superheroes of America have been stripped of their federal police powers and all cooperation with the U.S. Government. CRISIS, an organization that has had more experience with dealing with supervillains, has been shut down. It's no wonder that local authorities are recruiting superheroes to deal with the situation."

 

"In other news, the White House announced that Cassidy Young, former director of CRISIS, was fired by President Lee for opposing the superhuman registration act. This came as both the United Superheroes of America, and the Kingdom of Atlantis demanded an explaination into her disappearance. Secretary of State Daniel Arlington testified before congress that the Atlantian government has broken off relations since the revealation of Young's firing. Young, a former U.S. Ambassador to Atlantis, and indeed the only foreign representative ever allowed to live on the hidden Atlantic Island Kingdom's soil, had been missing for two weeks without any comment from the White House. Prince Neptune, Atlantian Ambassador to the United Nations, and member of the Enforcers, had no comment on the matter."

[Doctor Agenda]

Re: Special Report: The End of Superheroes!

 

Great dilemma for heroes: let crime run rampant or break the law by fighting it. Trying to stop criminals they might have to fight cops.

 

It would be interesting if a city declared itself a 'hero haven' taking a stand against enforcing the SRA.

[kahuna's bro]

Re: Special Report: The End of Superheroes!

 

yes it would at that