EDM as 'Total Invulnerability'

[Naanomi]

Partially because of the Suspended Animation thread that has come up, but also because it was on my mind last week...

 

How do people feel about using Extra Dimensional Movement to represent total invulnerability? I had an old character from another system that could freeze herself in time, leaving a 100% indestructible statue of which she had (limited) sensory awareness about what was happening around it... as long as she could hold her breath. She could also be 'broken out of it' with sufficient force.

 

A Multiform of hugenormous defenses was the old write up I did when converting her but... would a 1x1x1 (no range, etc etc) Barrier (in the shape of a statue-like me), and an EDM 'linked' to the Barrier work for that?

 

How about the inverse? Would a UAA EDM linked to an Entangle work to freeze someone in a completely unaffected state until 'broken out' of the Entangle?

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: EDM as 'Total Invulnerability'

 

Under the rules, it could be do-able. EDM to the "Invulnerability Zone". Buy Transdimensional on your Strength and your Senses (maybe need Clairsentience for the latter). A Transdimensional Images so you're visible there. Mobile Barrier if you want to be able to interpose yourself in between others.

 

It's very definitely spray cheese in a can, though.

 

Another way to do invulnerability would be using Damage Negation in conjunction with the Absolute Effect Rule, assuming the GM allows the latter.

[Matt the Bruins]

Re: EDM as 'Total Invulnerability'

 

I don't have a problem with effective invulnerability being applied to a frozen body that's essentially the SFX of using XDM to Time Travel to a future point, but a power that allows one to take actions while in such a state seems abusive to me. If you want to be more or less invulnerable yet able to take actions, buy Desolidification and Affects Physical World on STR and any powers you'd want to use while invulnerable.

[Naanomi]

Re: EDM as 'Total Invulnerability'

 

In this case, there was no 'affecting the world' except as a immobile barrier... hence linking it to Barrier Stand in front of speeding train, prop up collapsing sealing, spread arms in front of gunfire directed at civilians, that sort of thing. Guess I'd have to be wary of arch-nemeses inventing Transdimensional Attacks that affect my 'invulnerability zone' at a measly +1/4

[prestidigitator]

Re: EDM as 'Total Invulnerability'

 

Sounds good to me, with the provisions Matt mentions about still affecting the "real/physical" world.

 

But it might not be appropriate in all games and settings. I've always played EDM as being pretty dependent upon the dimensional geometry/cosmology of the game setting. Some settings may allow for an infinitely diverse set of dimensions, so you can basically "carve out your own" for whatever the power of the moment needs to do, whereas some might have a pretty rigid structure of dimensions that powers need to fit into and obey the structure of. For example, in the Old World of Darkness you couldn't just pop into whatever realm you wanted; you had to go from the real world to some layer of the Near Umbra, and from there possibly into particular pocket realms, other layers, and/or the Far Umbra. Similarly in most D&D cosmologies you have to go from "the Prime Material" plane to the Astral or Ethereal planes, and from there to different major and minor planes, BUT D&D often also leaves a lot of room open to things like, "pocket dimensions."

 

The time travel aspect of it is also going to be highly dependent upon the rules of the game universe: how it handles timelines, paradoxes, and objective vs. subjective time. Jumping purely into the future and skipping periods of time is probably the safest and least controversial application though, so you're probably pretty "portable" if you stick to that alone.

[Fireg0lem]

Re: EDM as 'Total Invulnerability'

 

I think it's fine, and would allow it as a GM.

[dmjalund]

Re: EDM as 'Total Invulnerability'

 

to remain active whilte "Invulnerable" you'd need

Extradimensional senses to see the real world

and

Extradimensional (or Desolid's Affects Physical World) on all powers

 

also I'd have the player be required to describe a spcial effect that affects the character normally

(like a substitute for the Transdimensional advantage of others)

[Sean Waters]

Re: EDM as 'Total Invulnerability'

 

I've no problem with travelling to a dimension where 'damage' is irrelevant - call it the Invulnerability Zone if absolutely necessary - but the point is you have traveled there - you are not also here.

 

Leaving something behind that is VULNERABLE, allowing you to be affected wherever you currently are would work as a limitation: leaving behind an indestructible statue isn't a limitation and, given how it is bound to be played (You need that runaway train stopping before it hits the nuclear power station? No problem...) would be not just an advantage, but a completely different power.

 

In 6e no problem with EDM linked to creating a barrier that is incredibly tough - but if broken 'summons' you back - but then you are paying for exactly what you are buying. This is one of the options Naanomi suggests in the original post. Coupled with a a trans-dimensional sense or two, you are good to go.

[Naanomi]

Re: EDM as 'Total Invulnerability'

 

Just for reference, this is sort of what I came with...

 

Temporal Shell: Barrier 5 PD/5 ED/1 Mental Defense/1 Power Defense/1 Flash Defense: Sight Group, 40 BODY (up to 1m long, 1m tall, and 1m thick), Non-Anchored (75 Active Points); No Range (-1/2), Restricted Shape (-1/4), Unified Power (-1/4)

 

Temporal Invulnerability: Extra-Dimensional Movement (Single Dimension) (20 Active Points); Linked (Temporal Shell; -1/2), Costs Endurance to Maintain (-1/2), Unified Power (-1/4)

 

Aware of Surroundings: Perceive into a single other dimension with Sight Group and Hearing Group (20 Active Points); Unclear Perceptions (-1/2), Unified Power (-1/4)

 

OR An attack 'temporal banishment' version of this power might look like...

 

Temporal Banishment: Extra-Dimensional Movement (Single Dimension), Usable As Attack (+1 1/4) (45 Active Points); Linked (Temporal Prison; -1/2), Unified Power (-1/4)

 

Temporal Prison: Entangle 8d6, 7 PD/7 ED (75 Active Points); Unified Power (-1/4)

[Sean Waters]

Re: EDM as 'Total Invulnerability'

 

Looks good!

[Ockham's Spoon]

Re: EDM as 'Total Invulnerability'

 

For the limited invulnerability you describe I would allow it, but if I had thought to build a similar "invulnerability" power I think I would have gone with Desolid with limitations on it to reflect lack of mobility and then just handwave the sfx to say the form is indestructible instead of intangible.

[Naanomi]

Re: EDM as 'Total Invulnerability'

 

The problem with Desolid is it leaves you... so vulnerable Ironically. Not to powers particularly, but to various environmental effects. EDM invulnerability helps against suffocation, drowning, sleep deprivation, ongoing poison damage, crushing gravitational forces, mental powers, Presence Attacks, and a host of other things that most desolid builds just don't hold up against.

 

Also, more random villains seem to be built with an 'affects any form of desolid' power than an 'affects any dimension' power, although specific villains would probably develop the latter if a hero like this were running around.

[Egyptoid]

Re: EDM as 'Total Invulnerability'

 

Looks good!

 

like flies to honey, so is Waters to EDM...

 

 

but seriously, doesnt the EDM defense suffer the same drawback as the

Desolid defense: anything that the user wants to do must affect real world & cost extra ?

[Sean Waters]

Re: EDM as 'Total Invulnerability'

 

And, if you are desolid, stuff passes through you...

 

 

**Mutter mutter you are NOT getting into this one again, Sean**

[Ockham's Spoon]

Re: EDM as 'Total Invulnerability'

 

Good point Naanomi; you could add Life Support to cover a lot of that, but with EDM you aren't there at all to be affected by anything, unless someone has a Transdimensional attack, which are certainly less common than Affects Desolid. Of course you have to add Transdimensional Clairsentience if you want to know what is going on with your indestructible body, but that is easier than buying extraneous defenses for everything under the sun.

[megaplayboy]

Re: EDM as 'Total Invulnerability'

 

Well, the APG version of invulnerability, 100% damage reduction, costs 120 points per defense type(physical, energy, mental), or 360 total(320 if you don't require the mental part to be resistant). Something where the character is immobile and can't affect the real world should probably cost 20-30% of that amount, or in the range of 70-100 points, or 50-75 if the character can still be affected by mental powers. IMHO, YMMV, IANARL(I Am Not A Rules Lawyer), etc.

[Naanomi]

Re: EDM as 'Total Invulnerability'

 

and still wouldn't stop attacks based on Power Defense, NND, and probably still a few arbitrary environmental effects that I am not thinking of at the moment. While a bunch of extradimensional powers with a build like this would reek of cheese, I don't think the immobile statue would break too many games.

[Sean Waters]

Re: EDM as 'Total Invulnerability'

 

Let us look at this sectionally. First EDM. You EDM and you are elsewhere. No one who can't travel there too can have a go at you unless they have extradimensional attacks. I'm against an 'invulnerability zone' - a dimension where you can not take damage: too convenient and arbitrary. Anyway. You are not HERE - you are elsewhere, and safe.

 

Buying Extardimensional for your sight and hearing will cost about 27 points (I think).

 

Now you are elsewhere but can SEE here. And hear HERE.

 

Finally you want something here that is indestructible. Barrier is the obvious choice for creating something that is very tough and inanimate. 60 points gets you a human sized opaque barrier that has 10 Body and 12/12 defence, and is anchored to the ground. Not indestructibe, by any means, but interestingly tough.

 

I'd be happy enough to allow that. Even if the statue is destroyed, and you are recalled from the other dimension, you are undamaged as you were not there when the damage happened.

[Naanomi]

Re: EDM as 'Total Invulnerability'

 

I agree that calling it the 'Invulnerability Zone' is not really what I am after... just trying to mirror the existing 'Mental Zone' and 'Speed Zone' and the like.

 

Really, this does work best for the SFX of people being actually elsewhere, either spatially, temporally, or dimensionally. The original character was, at it's heart, temporally displacing itself to achieve the invulnerable state. This same power write up, with some adjustments on the 'barrier' aspect, seems to also work for a friend's undead character that could 'abandon' the host body and return to the afterlife with no care about what happened to the shell while she didn't occupy it... again, actual displacement as the SFX for the invulnerability model.

[prestidigitator]

Re: EDM as 'Total Invulnerability'

 

Finally you want something here that is indestructible. Barrier is the obvious choice for creating something that is very tough and inanimate. 60 points gets you a human sized opaque barrier that has 10 Body and 12/12 defence' date=' and is anchored to the ground. Not indestructibe, by any means, but interestingly tough.[/quote']

I'd use Images (including the Touch Group). Indestructible. Yes, with a Perception Roll someone would be able to tell it's not, "real," but that'd just give them a clue that you are, "invulnerable/extradimentionalized," so who cares.

[Sean Waters]

Re: EDM as 'Total Invulnerability'

 

I'd use Images (including the Touch Group). Indestructible. Yes' date=' with a Perception Roll someone would be able to tell it's not, "real," but that'd just give them a clue that you are, "invulnerable/extradimentionalized," so who cares.[/quote']

 

That works nicely, but you still have the problem that it is not an actual object, even with touch group: you can't stop a runaway train with an Image (of course you'd be hard pressed to stop it with a 12 DEF 12 Body Barrier, but you'd slow it down some).

[Lucius]

Re: EDM as 'Total Invulnerability'

 

In before the lock!

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary wonders if it's just that Lucius isn't allowed to use the "I" word.