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How did the lost Champions die?


OddHat

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Originally posted by Monolith

I know the Champions are the "icons" of the CU, but they really seem to come off, at least to me, as junior grade. Besides, the Champions will not last long. They are being hunted by 95% of all the villains in the Champions Universe. :)

 

The Champions have always been examples of beginning characters, and their membership has changed repeatedly. They've lost many heroes over the years, they're hunted by everyone, and (judging from CKC and older enemies books) they foolishly hunt much more powerful individuals and teams. So, the question is simple:

 

How did the missing Champions die? ;)

 

How will the current team go?

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Re: How did the lost Champions die?

 

Originally posted by OddHat

 

How did the missing Champions die? ;)

 

Well, you have to recall, in this universe, they didn't. Officially, Defender is the one who's formed the Champions (as per 5th Edition CU), with Sapphire, Nighthawk, Ironclad, and later Witchcraft. Solitaire, Obsidian and so forth just don't exist in 5th Edition history. Heck, Seeker is only a comic book character there.

 

Perhaps a better question then, is how did reality get rearanged?

 

I blame (okay, use as an excuse in my games) the "Secret Crisis". That's right, the one sentence homage to DC's "Crisis of Infinite Earths" and Marvel's "The Secret Wars". What was the prize?

 

Reality.... en masse.

 

The fourth edition heroes saved it, but at a cost. Their own realities, indeed, their very essences were altered. Some you won't recognize, others you might, but they're still changed. A few may have even been erased from the time line totally.

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I can predict that any GM who doesn't coddle the Champions and actually has them hunt those characters they are supposedly hunting will find them dying very quickly. I am annoyed by the schizophrenic take that the ownership, regardless of changes in ownership, have taken toward the Champions. They present them as examples of starting characters but then feel the need to build a great deal of their universe around them as if they rated it. If they are going to support the Champions and link so much to the Champions it sure would have been nice for them to have provided them as an example of both a starting team and what they look like with 100 points of experience or more. The way they have done it is lame.

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Originally posted by Agent X

They present them as examples of starting characters but then feel the need to build a great deal of their universe around them as if they rated it. If they are going to support the Champions and link so much to the Champions it sure would have been nice for them to have provided them as an example of both a starting team and what they look like with 100 points of experience or more. The way they have done it is lame.

I can agree with that, to some extent. When I see that most of the villains are Hunted by the Champions it sort of gives me the impression that the other 11 superhero teams in the US do not really matter. I suppose you can look at all those Hunted villain examples as trying to show that the Champions are very proactive in destroying evil, far more proactive that other superhero teams, and thus the reason everyone is Hunted by them, but I do not really think the Champions have the resources to hunt everyone.

 

It does not bother me that the Champions are only starting-level characters though. If you think about it, 350 points is not weak. We used to start characters at 250 points not so long ago, and we considered our heroes to be extremely powerful when they reached 350 points. :) I do not think a hero needs to be 500 points to be considered tough in the new CU.

 

I think I would rather see villains broken out into rogues galleries though, where the Sentinels have their villains, and the Justice Squadron has their villains, and so on. When you see villains like that you get a feeling that there is a complete universe being used, and not just the Champions and Millennium City.

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Originally posted by Monolith

I can agree with that, to some extent. When I see that most of the villains are Hunted by the Champions it sort of gives me the impression that the other 11 superhero teams in the US do not really matter. I suppose you can look at all those Hunted villain examples as trying to show that the Champions are very proactive in destroying evil, far more proactive that other superhero teams, and thus the reason everyone is Hunted by them, but I do not really think the Champions have the resources to hunt everyone.

 

It does not bother me that the Champions are only starting-level characters though. If you think about it, 350 points is not weak. We used to start characters at 250 points not so long ago, and we considered our heroes to be extremely powerful when they reached 350 points. :) I do not think a hero needs to be 500 points to be considered tough in the new CU.

 

I think I would rather see villains broken out into rogues galleries though, where the Sentinels have their villains, and the Justice Squadron has their villains, and so on. When you see villains like that you get a feeling that there is a complete universe being used, and not just the Champions and Millennium City.

Yeah, rogues galleries like Mutants and Masterminds would work much better.
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How are they GOING to die? My take

 

As for how the 5th Edition crew is going to die?

 

Geez o petes, let's hope it's not too soon... BUT... if I were going to arrange it this far in advance...

 

Defender: James Harmon IV will end up locked in mortal combat with Mechanon. Aware the robot is just going to get more and more powerful everytime it loses, Defender will (with Nighthawk's help) devise a computer virus meant to take out the machine once and for all. It will require getting up close and 'interfacing'. Mechanon will start to take over the suit, causing it's power to turn inward and fry James within. James will use this link to upload the virus, which will spread to each Mechanon as it's activated by the signal which spreads it. No sooner will the other units arise, than they'll destruct... never having time to adapt.

 

James won't live to see his victory.

 

Ironclad: Drogen Lar will live a long full life. Eventually his people, who have their own super heroes and villains, will need his help. Despite being considered a 'traitor' by his people, Ironclad will rush to save his fellow Dorlavians from conquest (either without, or within...imagine a Perseid Dr. Destroyer). The Champions will help him, but when it comes time to leave, he'll choose to stay.

 

Later, when the H'zeel invade Earth, he'll be among the Perseid leaders who suggests retalitory strikes against the H'zeel while they're weak. Much to his horror, it will get out of his influence, and turn to a genocidal purge. By the time of the Terran Empire, his statues will be everywhere, and visiting humans will wonder why THIS Perseid leader's image is always presented in metal?

 

Nighthawk: Nighthawk will be betrayed by Julie Morgan (More unintentionally, or at least without forethought rather than Malice). They'll break up, with Nighthaw more bitter and distrustful than ever. Nighthawk will end up being quite the hunted man as old enemies call debts due. He'll get his chance for revenge on the VIPER nest leader who helped direct the accident that scarred his face. In the mean time, Julie, realizing she loved him, and cursing herself for a fool, will try to track him down. She'll end up captured and her life threatened. Nighthawk will have a choice, take out the VIPER Nest and finally have justice... or save her.

 

With a wrenching sensation, (And buying off or down his obssession with Crimefighting limitation) Nighthawk will choose saving an innocent over punishing the guilty. She'll get out thanks to him, he won't. Irony of Ironies, the Nest Leader's desire to 'get Nighthawk' will take his own life.

 

 

 

Sapphire: A growing activist for many causes, Sapphire will eventually fade from the music scene, only to dominate the Political one. A future Mayor for Millennium City, she'll eventually have to drop her super hero activities for her career and family. 20 years from now, she'll run for President... and be assassinated by those that fear she just might win.

 

She'll leave behind at least one son or daughter who seeks to find the killers.

 

Witchcraft: After being put through an emotional wringer and nearly losing her sanity and her soul, Witchcraft will come out stronger and brighter for it. She will defeat her sister Talisman, perhaps, ironically, by merging with her, and overcoming the evil of her twin. This new Witchcraft will accept her destiny as the new Archmage of the Champions Universe, but those duties will force her to leave her friends.

She'll still appear to them once in awhile, but as her powers grow, so do the restraints on how and when she may use them.

 

Kinetik: Brendon will join the Champions with many lingering doubts about the wisdom of that choice. He'll do his best to keep the team grounded and helping folks 'on the streets'. His attempts to do so will have him more and more acting in a leadership role. After Defender dies, Kinetik will marry Cory, and they'll have some children. While she focuses on politics, he'll end up being the leader of the very team he was once unsure of joining.

 

He'll run it wisely and well, before he's forced to retire as his powers fade somewhat. He won't be a liability to the team. His autobiography, Feet on the Road, Eyes on the Prize will be a best seller.

...........

Of course, it won't end there...

Kinetik's youngest brother, Philip, who went into science and was working for Harmon Ind will stumble onto notes convincing him that James was Defender. He'll use the specs his investigations uncover, keep it from falling into the wrong hands, and make his own armor... Dubbing himself "Scarlet Shield II". He'll try to live up to the legacy of BOTH heroes.

 

Ironclad's tales will inspire some super powered Persieds to visit Earth, at least one of them will try to join the Champions.

 

Julie Morgan, disgusted and guilt ridden for her part in Mark's death, will hone her own self defense skills over the course of the next year, adjust his costume and gear to suit her... and use her investigative powers to redeem herself and carry on his work fighting crime. She'll become "Nighthawk II" but some in the press will prefer to dub her the "Lady Hawk".

 

One, perhaps two, of Sapphire and Kinetiks' children will have similar powers to their parents. They'll step forward to join, fighting for both acceptance, and yet a way to step out of their parent's shadows. They'll also hunt Mom's killers on the side. At least one of them may cross 'the line'. Let's hope not.

 

Witchcraft, growing serene and wise as well as powerful, will take a young adept under her wing as an apprentice. Eventually, it will occur to her that while her pupil is learning magic, lessons on how magic should be used are not quite being grasped. She'll therefore assign her student to the Champions as both resident mystic, and a way to learn things that just can't be taught in books.

 

Say hello to the Champions: Generation Next

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My own 5E campaign differs from official continuity on a few points. In my campaign, both groups of Champions have existed, more or less. The original Champions were the bunch from the 4E books - Seeker, Solitaire, Ocelot, etc. In this timeline, they took part in the Battle of Detroit and were all killed - other than Defender, who was disabled and knocked far from the battle early on, in a fight with Grond. After falling out of the spotlight for a time, during which he mourned the death of his teammates/friends, he eventually moved to Millennium City and reformed a new team of Champions. Thus, in this campaign Defender is fairly experienced and has drawn the other 5E Champions - all relative neophytes - together into a team. This provides the Champions with a bit more history, acknowledges the former Champions and even sets up some plot possibilities - who knows, the son of Seeker could eventually show up. ;)

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Originally posted by Agent X

I can predict that any GM who doesn't coddle the Champions and actually has them hunt those characters they are supposedly hunting will find them dying very quickly. I am annoyed by the schizophrenic take that the ownership, regardless of changes in ownership, have taken toward the Champions. They present them as examples of starting characters but then feel the need to build a great deal of their universe around them as if they rated it. If they are going to support the Champions and link so much to the Champions it sure would have been nice for them to have provided them as an example of both a starting team and what they look like with 100 points of experience or more. The way they have done it is lame.

 

Agreed, if you're running the Champions Universe "by the numbers." The Champions would indeed by over their heads if (a) you use them in your campaign at all, (B) you use them as written, at their current power level and/or with no additional members, © you use most or all of the published villains that are supposed to be Hunted by them, (d) you're unwilling to substitute other heroes in the Champions Universe for some of those Hunteds. This last part will become easier as more NPC hero teams are published.

 

I don't think Hero Games is operating on the assumption that most Champions gamers will use the CU precisely as written, without at least some modifications to suit their campaigns. (I mean, surely there are some Champions players in real-world Detroit. ;) ) They've tried to create a coherent framework that anyone can insert their own player characters into, but that very action is going to start a divergence from the "official" universe.

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Not speaking in my "official voice," because Hero isn't declaring any sort of official policy here, but I've always sort of assumed that "Hunted by the Champions" was a placeholder for "Hunted by (Your Heroes Here)" as soon as you introduced that specific bad guy into your campaign. Yeah, for beginning heroes the Champions seem to have a lot of enemies, but if that bothers you do what Mono suggests and parcel the baddies out to other teams- the Sentinels, Justice Squadron, Nova, UNITY, etc., etc.

 

If you look at the CU from the point of view of a fake comic publishing line, rather than an actual universe (an interesting alternative lens to use some times if you haven't tried it), you could think of the Champions as similar to the Teen Titans for DC in the early '80s: a young, somewhat inexperienced team that has a really good writer/artist team working on it and is currently more popular (and therefore appearing much more often) than the more powerful, older teams like the Justice League.

 

A third option is to accept the Champions as written as beginning heroes, but start adding more experience (after all, they've been together for a couple of years now, and they've clearly been keeping pretty busy with all these hunteds.) That's what the old gang did with the 4th-ed Champions Universe book, and though I recall several debates about the "improvements" to the old team, it's still certainly a valid idea. dw

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After a good deal of internal debate, I had the Champions (including Kinetik) just go missing right around the time I started my Millennium City campaign. The were seen departing the city at high speed and have not yet returned. Their PR rep isnt providing any details when pressed, and even Dr. Silverback's lips are sealed on the subject.

 

I originally just intended it to be a short absence to give the PCs a motivation to team up to fill the void left by the Champions. However, as time went on it was a convenient dodge so they stayed gone. Then after they had been gone long enough to be noteworthy, I decided it would make an interesting story hook to find out where they went, but due to the summer playing havok with regular attendance, I couldnt run several successive sessions without them being in MC itself where there was the possibility to handle players coming and going and their PC's following suit (I avoid having another player or myself puppet someone elses PC unless there is no way to avoid it, and handle a stage left exit (or a GM's discretion STUN coma) whenever gracefully convenient even then).

 

So the end result is that they've been gone for a few months GT now, the PC group, the Millennial Men (http://www.killershrike.com/MillennialMen/MillennialMen.htm), have become the most powerful and news worthy supers team in MC in the interim, and all the other supers in the city have had to scramble a bit to cover the bases as a lot of villains took the news of the Champion's disappearance as a carte blanche invitation.

 

However, the Millennial Men recently chased off Holocaust, narrowly preventing him from destroying a major new developement project which will eventually contain IHA offices (among other legitimate concerns), and immediately turned around though battered and broken to prevent Black Harlequinn's take over of Omegaworld (Im running bits of Champions Battlegrounds, out of sequence).

 

Half of MC-8 arrived to assist them at the end, with Maegara and Commando Rubberbando accidentilly killing Black Harlequinn after he was sorely wounded by El Aguijon and attempted to escape with his rickety rocket boots. (The PCs were beat to a bloody pulp by the Harlequinn's death traps (juiced a tad by yours truly to threaten the party), and reached the point that they couldnt really press on effectively, so each of the 4 players chose a member of MC8 and we continued play with them).

 

Now one of the players (Dr. Lucky) has taken over as the GM to run a story arc, and I dont know what he'll do with the Champions thread in the meantime, but if he doesnt run with it, Ill pick it back up again when I resume as GM.

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Original Champions

 

I'll probably do with the 4E Champions what I did with the original Champions (Marksman, Rose, Gargoyle, etc.). Keep the character names, re-name the team, and move them to another city.

 

The only problem this time is that Defender is still with the 5E team, and the 5E team is just the 4E team with new names.

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Re: How are they GOING to die? My take

 

Originally posted by Hermit

As for how the 5th Edition crew is going to die?

 

Geez o petes, let's hope it's not too soon... BUT... if I were going to arrange it this far in advance...

 

Hermit's list was, of course, superb, but for a different take;

 

Defender - Finally pays the cost of that OIF armor when facing the Saw-C Wenches (Chainsaw, Buzzsaw and Hacksaw) au natural. If only he had learned how to use all of that charm...

 

Ironclad - Few foes can destroy Ironclad, but low self esteem caused by decades of failure to integrate himself fully into human society will finally lead the iron man to come down with a paralyzing case of rust. Amnesia and dementia will follow, and the last we see of our Persied hero will involve him standing in the middle of a forest glade clutching an axe and an oil can.

 

Nighthawk - Missed acrobatics roll. Tall skyscraper. St.Patricks day parade, complete with marching bands and elephants. Messy.

 

Sapphire - Her epitath shall read: Never perform a pushed move through on a giant robot without turning on your force field first.

 

Witchcraft - Her power growing, Witchcraft determines to reform her sister once and for all. A carefully researched "Emotional Realignment" spell should do the trick. One botched activation roll and set of side effects later, and Witchcraft learns that sometimes it feels good to be bad.

Soon afterwards, she learns never to refer to Takofanes as "My funny little skellie-poo" in public.

 

Kinetik - Banana peel. St. Patrics day parade. Falling guy.

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Re: Re: How are they GOING to die? My take

 

Originally posted by OddHat

Hermit's list was, of course, superb, but for a different take;

 

Defender - Finally pays the cost of that OIF armor when facing the Saw-C Wenches (Chainsaw, Buzzsaw and Hacksaw) au natural. If only he had learned how to use all of that charm...

 

Ironclad - Few foes can destroy Ironclad, but low self esteem caused by decades of failure to integrate himself fully into human society will finally lead the iron man to come down with a paralyzing case of rust. Amnesia and dementia will follow, and the last we see of our Persied hero will involve him standing in the middle of a forest glade clutching an axe and an oil can.

 

Nighthawk - Missed acrobatics roll. Tall skyscraper. St.Patricks day parade, complete with marching bands and elephants. Messy.

 

Sapphire - Her epitath shall read: Never perform a pushed move through on a giant robot without turning on your force field first.

 

Witchcraft - Her power growing, Witchcraft determines to reform her sister once and for all. A carefully researched "Emotional Realignment" spell should do the trick. One botched activation roll and set of side effects later, and Witchcraft learns that sometimes it feels good to be bad.

Soon afterwards, she learns never to refer to Takofanes as "My funny little skellie-poo" in public.

 

Kinetik - Banana peel. St. Patrics day parade. Falling guy.

Heh:D
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Thanks

 

Originally posted by Darren Watts

Not speaking in my "official voice," because Hero isn't declaring any sort of official policy here, but I've always sort of assumed that "Hunted by the Champions" was a placeholder for "Hunted by (Your Heroes Here)" as soon as you introduced that specific bad guy into your campaign. Yeah, for beginning heroes the Champions seem to have a lot of enemies, but if that bothers you do what Mono suggests and parcel the baddies out to other teams- the Sentinels, Justice Squadron, Nova, UNITY, etc., etc.

 

Okay, this makes sense to me, 'official' or not ;) And think, the Hunteds your PCs get could be saving the Champions lives. Take a hunted, save a Champion ;)

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Originally posted by OddHat

Yes, but interpretting it as a bunch of beginning characters hunting the master villains of the world is funnier.

 

;)

 

Mmm.. well, yes, it is. It occurs to me that some master villains must get VERY Bored indeed to do such things :)

.......

 

MASTER VILLAIN: Ah, lackey, bring my docket. I'm sure I'm forgetting something today, something enjoyable and EEEVIL.

 

LACKEY: Ah, let's see.... *flipping through pages* 1. Wake up, go to bathroom, shower.... dry...put on 'mantle of majesty power armor' and 'flowing in your face cape'?

 

MASTER VILLAIN: OBVIOUSLY... what else?

 

LACKEY: Watch Jerry Springer reruns to bolster contempt for humanity?

 

MASTER VILLAIN: *A smile* Yes, done. In fact, make a note for me. There's a trailer home park in Nebraska I intend to vaporize. While Evil, I do value good taste.

 

LACKEY: *Scribles it down* Oh, Master, I've found it!

 

MASTER VILLAIN: Found what? Nebraska? It's not that damn hard to find... see that's the problem with most people these days, basic geography is beyond even the ...

 

LACKEY: Oh no master, I mean, the thing on your agenda you didn't do yet for today. *Realizing 'no' is not what he needs to be saying, quickly moves on* This is your yearly 'find a group of rookie heroes to torment day'

 

MASTER VILLAIN: *Powers down his incinerator in surprise* REALLY? Already?? Great! Who do we have?

 

LACKEY: Our best and newest option seems to be "The Champions"

 

MASTER VILLAIN: Champions of what?

 

LACKEY: *Double checks* Just the Champions, Master.

 

MASTER VILLAIN: Well THAT'S vague. Okay, where are they based, and what's the membership?

 

LACKEY: Millennium City. Now, the leader is Defender...

 

MV: Hold it. His name is Defender?

 

LACKEY: Yes Master, Powered Armored type.

 

MV: He took the name AFTER Detroit got nuked? That's kind of guarding the hen house after the fox has left, isn't it?

 

LACKEY: *nods, and goes on* There's Ironclad, an alien brick who...

 

MV: Ah yes, Prince of his planet no doubt.

 

LACKEY: Says here he's just a gladitator.

 

MV: Are you SURE? I mean, is he wrethed in flames or something?

 

LACKEY: Afraid not master.

 

MV: Could have sworn..oh well, carry on.

 

LACKEY: Then there's Nighthawk, a dark avenger who uses his many skills and gadgets in conjunction with martial arts to carry on his war for justice...

 

MV: ZZzzzzzzzzzzzz

 

L: Master? *cough* MASTER.

 

MV: *mmf wakes up* Sorry, sorry.. continue.

 

L: Next is Sapphire, no doubt you've heard of her. Not only a mutant, but a super star!

 

MV: I'm not big on music past Wagner. Is she dating Ben Affleck?

 

L: Ah, not to my knowledge master. She is beautiful, perhaps you should make her your bride of the week?

 

MV: mmm ...I'll consider it. Go to those super hero erotica sites you always click on instead of dding your job, and bring me some pics. I'll glance over them.

 

L: *Blush* Right. Lastly is Witchcraft.. raised by an evil organization, she now seeks to redeem herself but psychological analysis shows she maybe someone underconfident.

 

MV: This Witchfire seems familiar...*musing* She wear highboots?

 

LACKEY: Why, no master. And, ah, it's Witchcraft.

 

MV: It is? Hurumph. Witchfire has more panache. Oh, get some pics on her as well.

 

LACKEY: ALready got them master I... *Notes the Master Villain's look at him* Just anticipating your whim, sire.

 

MV: Good one. *He nods* Very well, I shall puruse over Witchfire's picture later. These people DO seem to have some hubris.

 

LACKEY: ANd the best selling comic in the world.

 

MV: WHAT? So soon? Have I even gotten a cameo yet?

 

LACKEY: No sire... and sire? It's still Witchcraft.

 

MV: That tears it! Put them on the list! Let's start slow. Put the severed engine of the team vehicle on Defender's pillow.

 

LACKEY: At once master. *bows and goes*

 

MASTER VILLAIN: EXXXCEELLENT... *steeples fingers* Welcome to the big times 'champions'.

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Originally posted by assault

Please leave him some dignity. It should be "Captain Duck-hat".

 

Alan

He would have to have some dignity first.

 

He's the only super to ever get beaten up on by a pack of rowdy school children (USPDB). Even Seeker didnt suck that bad.

 

 

The problem is he's so damn brooding and antisocial no one wants to be the one to tell him how lame he looks.

 

"Um, excuse me Mr. Serious Unstable Revenger of the Night Dude, but do you realize youre wearing a Duck for a hat?"

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Oh man, you guys are way too harsh (Not that I have room to talk after picking on the Champs myself a bit). :)

 

I really think they're a good team. Nighthawk is okay, as long as you remember his costume is black and silver, and down play the hood a bit.

 

Witchcraft has the potiential to grow in a lot of directions, and brings some cool enemies with her.

 

I actually like Ironclad more than I did Obsidion, but not sure why. Maybe it's I see him as a betrayed soldier and warrior seeking a 'good' fight.

 

And so on.. really, on their own, they're decent concepts that need just a little fleshing out for personal taste.

 

IMO that is. :)

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Originally posted by Hermit

Oh man, you guys are way too harsh (Not that I have room to talk after picking on the Champs myself a bit). :)

 

I really think they're a good team. Nighthawk is okay, as long as you remember his costume is black and silver, and down play the hood a bit.

 

They had to have a non-power suit Super-Normal, and it's a classic character type.

 

In a very silly costume.

 

I did use him in a non-comedy game, with a hood and face mask instead of the duck hat.

 

 

Originally posted by Hermit

Witchcraft has the potiential to grow in a lot of directions, and brings some cool enemies with her.

 

Mostly agreed, but her personality and origin still (imo) need a re-write.

 

Originally posted by Hermit

I actually like Ironclad more than I did Obsidion, but not sure why. Maybe it's I see him as a betrayed soldier and warrior seeking a 'good' fight.

 

As you spotted in your villain's diary, it's nice to see a non-prince / king / lord alien hero. I'd have liked it more if he followed a profession that simply didn't exist on Earth, and had far more trouble fitting in.

 

"I'm a splugurator. In your terms, you could think of it as seeing the shapes of the turlings before the morphate."

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