Thrown weapons that return

[Zane_Marlowe]

Thought I'd ask people's opinions about this. I'm building a paladin who's abilities include power auras that he can use to give his blessed longsword various effects. These effects are naked advantages (e.g., armor piercing, alternate CV, etc.), and I thought it'd be relatively easy to create a Thor-style aura that lets him throw the weapon and have it return to him automatically. Here's what I came up with.

 

 

Blessed Recall

Naked Advantage: Range Based On STR, for up to 32 Active Points of Blessed Weapons. Constant (+1/2) (12 Active Points); Requires A Roll (Divine Authority; -1/2), (Real Cost: 8).

 

The other auras get limitation points for a focus, but I removed that from this aura so that the ranged effect wouldn't be "take away-able." The key thing I want to avoid is a "dagger turns into throwing knife" situation where an HKA gains ranged, but you still have to hike to go get it once it's gone.

[Greywind]

Re: Thrown weapons that return

 

Blast...

[Christopher]

Re: Thrown weapons that return

 

Blast...

Okay, when I get this right: You Bless the weapon, so it returns after throw.

 

On 6E1 231, it is said: "A character may not apply the Advantage 'Ranged' to an HA (except possibly when building throwable HTH Combat weapons in Heroic campaigns).

On 6E2 201 the Rules on how "trowable HTH Weapons" are build repeat that.

I actually think, that it doesn't return is part of the genre conventions to not give Heroic PC's Blasts without Endurance Cost, Charges or a -0 "must fetch focus after use" (some limitation on re-usability).

So I think as long as it is a separate power (that costs an action and maybe endurance to use), you should get "returns to hand" for free.

[Escafarc]

Re: Thrown weapons that return

 

I'd go with Blast/RKA with a FOI(Weapon of Opportunity) Limitation.

[Martin2]

Re: Thrown weapons that return

 

I'd go with Blast/RKA with a FOI(Weapon of Opportunity) Limitation.

 

FOI should be the sword in question.

 

Possibly with penetration / armour piercing. But I would have -3 to hit as long swords are not designed to be thrown (apart from in the movies and comic books ).

[Lucius]

Re: Thrown weapons that return

 

Why "Constant"?

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary buys Range Based on Prairie, and feels right at home, home on it, playing with deer and antelope.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Thrown weapons that return

 

You can apply Ranged to Hand to Hand Killing Attacks, which is what swords normally are.

 

Also, traditionally these are Obvious Inaccessable Focus, but you can also use Physical Manifestation to represent someone being able to wrestle it from you, attack it directly, deflect it or otherwise interact with it as if it were a normal object.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Thrown weapons that return

 

Why "Constant"?

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary buys Range Based on Prairie, and feels right at home, home on it, playing with deer and antelope.

 

I have the same question, does the sword continue to damage ranged targets?

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Thrown weapons that return

 

The key thing I want to avoid is a "dagger turns into throwing knife" situation where an HKA gains ranged, but you still have to hike to go get it once it's gone.

 

Just don't give the power either Lockout or Recoverable Charges, and you're golden.

[Christopher]

Re: Thrown weapons that return

 

I have the same question' date=' does the sword continue to damage ranged targets?[/quote']

No. This Power grants a Sword Ranged (UOO Naked Advantage). The granting is constant. At least that is what I think, otherweise the Costs don't seem right.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Thrown weapons that return

 

You don't need Constant to create a Ranged Naked Advantage for a sword, and Constant doesn't do what you've described.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Thrown weapons that return

 

Thought I'd ask people's opinions about this. I'm building a paladin who's abilities include power auras that he can use to give his blessed longsword various effects. These effects are naked advantages (e.g., armor piercing, alternate CV, etc.), and I thought it'd be relatively easy to create a Thor-style aura that lets him throw the weapon and have it return to him automatically. Here's what I came up with.

 

 

Blessed Recall

Naked Advantage: Range Based On STR, for up to 32 Active Points of Blessed Weapons. Constant (+1/2) (12 Active Points); Requires A Roll (Divine Authority; -1/2), (Real Cost: 8).

 

The other auras get limitation points for a focus, but I removed that from this aura so that the ranged effect wouldn't be "take away-able." The key thing I want to avoid is a "dagger turns into throwing knife" situation where an HKA gains ranged, but you still have to hike to go get it once it's gone.

 

As others have pointed out, Constant is not really necessary unless you envision this being used to create "dancing swords" usable at range. For a "Thor's Hammer" effect I would create a Multipower that can be granted to others. Base the reserve on the maximum active points of the base weapon it can be used with (it can be a killing or normal damage HTH weapon) then build one slot = to the current weapon and another as either Blast or RKA (depending on whether the base weapon is edged/pointy or blunt) based on the same active points as the base weapon.

 

Implementing this goes a step or two beyond any current mechanics in the rules (even Differing Modifiers, as that doesn't work with Frameworks) but I think using the basic Naked Advantage approach as a starting point and then tacking on a few more points for the "slots" would still come out with an equitable real cost.

[Christopher]

Re: Thrown weapons that return

 

A naked advantage is instant, but he want this advantage to be granted "for some time".

As I understand it he want's it to enchanch normal Weapons (and those already affected by other enchanments) in a Heroic game. But in the end, only the asker can clarify that.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Thrown weapons that return

 

A naked advantage is instant, but he want this advantage to be granted "for some time".

As I understand it he want's it to enchanch normal Weapons (and those already affected by other enchanments) in a Heroic game. But in the end, only the asker can clarify that.

 

I think it is assumed that the entire contruct is built with some flavor of Usable by Other (which is a constant effect in itself). The ability being granted can still be instant (like having a sword that returns to one's hand each time after being thrown).

[Starcloud]

Re: Thrown weapons that return

 

Look at what the power does. It is damage at range whenever the character wants.

 

RKA, range based on strength, OAF, trigger (when sword thrown, trigger resets in extra phase, representing the time it takes for the sword to return) Requires a Skill Roll.

 

Constant is used for something like a noose or a firebolt, where damage continues after the initial attack succeeds.

 

Incidentally, if I were the game master, either this power/naked advantage gets the focus limitation, or I'd make you pay to remove the focus limitation on all the other parts of the power that depend on having the sword. If you can always call the sword to hand, then a good chunk of the Focus limitation just vanished.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Thrown weapons that return

 

The Attack is Instant too - Constant on an Attack does something completely different from "around for a while", it would, effectively, be useless unless the HKA the sword is built upon is also Constant.

 

SFX wise, a Sword can be drawn and around between phases but the Attack Power it is built upon is still Instant because it only "activates" for that one Phase in which it is used. Constant let's you make Attacks without needing to make an Attack Roll every Phase. It's completely superfluous to our needs here - mechanically.

 

To model an 'thing' that is around all the time, but it only used in a moment (like a sword) you typically attach Focus, Physical Manifestation, or the like. And even that is not, strictly speaking, not required. Claws on a cat are still Instant Attack Powers, but don't suddenly disappear when it's not the cat's Phase - neither will a thrown sword.

 

[Ranged Based On STR for up to X Active Points of Enchanted Sword; OIF, Requires A Divine Authority Roll] is a sufficient build for most campaigns.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Thrown weapons that return

 

...

 

[Ranged Based On STR for up to X Active Points of Enchanted Sword; OIF, Requires A Divine Authority Roll] is a sufficient build for most campaigns.

 

Yes,

 

The application of some form of the Ranged Advantage automatically makes this a repeatable ability (the thrown weapon returns automatically after being thrown). Making a weapon that can be thrown and doesn't automatically return is actually a little more difficult (see Hawkgirl's Mighty Mace "Throw" slot for an example of this).

[casualplayer]

Re: Thrown weapons that return

 

Thought I'd ask people's opinions about this. I'm building a paladin who's abilities include power auras that he can use to give his blessed longsword various effects. These effects are naked advantages (e.g., armor piercing, alternate CV, etc.), and I thought it'd be relatively easy to create a Thor-style aura that lets him throw the weapon and have it return to him automatically. Here's what I came up with.

 

 

Blessed Recall

Naked Advantage: Range Based On STR, for up to 32 Active Points of Blessed Weapons. Constant (+1/2) (12 Active Points); Requires A Roll (Divine Authority; -1/2), (Real Cost: 8).

 

The other auras get limitation points for a focus, but I removed that from this aura so that the ranged effect wouldn't be "take away-able." The key thing I want to avoid is a "dagger turns into throwing knife" situation where an HKA gains ranged, but you still have to hike to go get it once it's gone.

 

Is it the paladin's ability or the blessed longsword's ability or a partnership of the two?

 

There are a scad of ways to do it. All those suggested plus you could just add the May Be Thrown advantage onto the HKA. Take away the Focus limitation and then it means the weapon mystically returns to the wielder's hand after being flung because you aren't operating under the limitations of Focus. "When is a blade not a blade?" You could establish some TK Only Usable with Sword and then use that TK to retrieve the blade after chucking it at a badguy, a fun twist which also gives you the ability to make the blade "dance." You could make it One Easily Recoverable Charge, and occasionally circumstances are going to make it a wee bit more difficult to easily recover the charge like when the shadowmonk snatches the longsword out of the air right before it strikes and decides to keep it as a souvenir.

[IndianaJoe3]

Re: Thrown weapons that return

 

I'd build this as a Multipower. I went with OAF instead of OIF since the character can only throw what he has in his hands, and it must be something appropriate (it's not the Throwing Master power from HSMA).

 

Throwing Weapons: Multipower, 40-point reserve, (40 Active Points); all slots OAF (suitable ready weapon for throwing; -1), Requires A Roll (Skill roll; Divine Authority; -1/2), Limited to damage character would do with chosen weapon (-1/4)

 

1. Blunt Weapon: Blast 8d6 (40 Active Points); OAF (suitable ready weapon for throwing; -1), Requires A Roll (Skill roll; Divine Authority; -1/2), Limited to damage character would do with chosen weapon (-1/4)
   
2. Sharp Weapon: Killing Attack - Ranged 2 1/2d6 (40 Active Points); OAF (suitable ready weapon for throwing; -1), Requires A Roll (Skill roll; Divine Authority; -1/2), Limited to damage character would do with chosen weapon (-1/4)
   

[Zane_Marlowe]

Re: Thrown weapons that return

 

Wow, you guys went are way helpful! I've been quite busy today, but let me speak to some of the points raised upthread. The basic SFX/Effect concept is that the Paladin has a blessed sword. He endows it with auras that have constant so that the effect granted by the aura can be maintained phase to phase without having to reroll the activation roll (Divine Authority, my version of the "faith" roll in most people's clerical magic). That's why constant isn't applied to the sword, but to the naked advantage itself. (The advantages and limitations of the naked advantage apply to the advantage, not the thing the advantage modifies, so far as I know.) The sword is just an ordinary longsword with a "difficult to replace" modification to the OAF focus. Because this is for a convention rather than a home game, I'm not using frameworks. The multipower route would work fine if that were otherwise, but the solution as proposed seems to do the job elegantly if I'm right about how it's all supposed to work. That said, I kind of like the "recoverable charge" route because it suggests a way of stipulating a roll or condition the character might have to make to return the weapon to his hand.

 

Thanks for this input everyone!

[ghost-angel]

Re: Thrown weapons that return

 

Interesting. OK, I can see where you'll want Constant on the Naked Advantage then. I would definitely still use the OIF to signify that it requires the Sword to be useful - no sword, you can't throw it. Possibly even OAF on it.

[Zane_Marlowe]

Re: Thrown weapons that return

 

I thought the necessity for a weapon was covered by the application of the modifier to blessed weapons. Those will as a matter of fact all have to have foci, but the ranged power doesn't save points from that limitation, which is where the cost of the automatic return shows up. Does that sound right?

[Escafarc]

Re: Thrown weapons that return

 

One other idea I had, would be Summon. But that might be too much?

[ghost-angel]

Re: Thrown weapons that return

 

I thought the necessity for a weapon was covered by the application of the modifier to blessed weapons. Those will as a matter of fact all have to have foci' date=' but the ranged power doesn't save points from that limitation, which is where the cost of the automatic return shows up. Does that sound right?[/quote']

 

It still gets the Limitation, just like two Linked powers all get the same Limitations.

[Christopher]

Re: Thrown weapons that return

 

One other idea I had' date=' would be Summon. But that might be too much?[/quote']

Nope, can't be used that way. It could be the special effect, but not the rules construct (such an idea is specifically covered in the rules).

 

I still think that loosing the Focus after throw is just a special effect, so once it get's the ranged advantage it should be fine to auto-retrive. It's not like 0 END, no Charges energy gun/staff of fireball has to be retrieved after every use, but it only has a Focus limitation (and maybe even real weapon).