Ghouls that are not undead creatures

[TheNaga]

How would I go about making my version of ghouls less like a gnoll? I would like to keep feature such as deeply shadowed sunken eyes are red orbs that burn like hot coals, skeletal faces and the lower half of their legs are a bit thin. I thought of them being bipedal hyenas beause I have found that favorite form among ghouls to assume is the hyena. Also what abilities and powers should they have?

 

Abilities and Powers: They can labor continuously for a number of hours equal to the P.E. score. After that they will need a 1D4 hour rest (minimum). They can if the rolls are right get the ability to run at 28 mph. Their sense of smell is equal to a polar bear (A polar bear can most likely smell a seal from more than 1 km (0.6 mi.) away and 1 m (3 ft.) under the snow range of). Their split tongue like that of a snake, is capable of injecting neural toxins that paralyze victims for 2d4 melee rounds. Nightvision.

 

Description: These vile creatures appear to be six to seven feet tall bipedal hyenas. Their mangy fur is mottled ash-gray in color and the legs have dark horizontal stripes. Their face is skeletal. Their deeply shadowed sunken eyes are red orbs that burn like hot coals. Lining their large massive jaws are yellow teeth designed for tearing and crushing. Their long prehensile tongue is black in color and ends in a razor sharp claw. Their hands are wide and monstrous looking. A wicked barbed bony claw that is black in color comes out of each of their hand’s fingers and thumb. The upper half of both legs is powerfully built while the lower half of both legs is a bit thin.

[Christopher]

Re: Ghouls that are not undead creatures

 

> They can labor continuously for a number of hours equal to the P.E. score. After that they will need a 1D4 hour rest (minimum).

Reduced Endurance (0 END level) for part of their STR, working on a recoverable fuel charge.

 

>They can if the rolls are right get the ability to run at 28 mph.

Don't know what you mean by roll. How to they compare to humans in that area? Does anybody has to make rolls for running, or only they?

You could buy extra running, requires a roll. Maybe even first buy back some of it, then replace it with "+x m Running, requires a roll".

 

>Their sense of smell is equal to a polar bear (A polar bear can most likely smell a seal from more than 1 km (0.6 mi.) away and 1 m (3 ft.) under the snow range of).

Telescopic Sense Adder for smell.

 

>Their split tongue like that of a snake

same effect as that of a snake? Isn't that kind of redundant with their smell?

 

>is capable of injecting neural toxins that paralyze victims for 2d4 melee rounds.

There are more ways to build a paralyszing toxin, then a gun. To name a few:

Transform with fast helaing (REC/Turn or phase); Drain DEX or uncontrolled Supress; Entangle based; Mind Controll, works agaisnt CON; All this either with, or without NND (depending on the question, if a simple 5 point LS power should be able to counter it).

 

>Nightvision.

6E1 211

[TheNaga]

Re: Ghouls that are not undead creatures

 

I mean in Heroes Unlimited if done right a Ghoul could run at 28 mph. Their tongue will always end in a razor sharp claw. Does Champions have a version of a ghouls that is not an undead? I do not want my ghouls to not be comfused with Gnolls. So what do i do to make the less like a Gnoll in looks?

[RexMundi]

Re: Ghouls that are not undead creatures

 

You could always go for something different. Say, Ghouls that are basically just humans. Then, give them something fun, like the Movie Ravenous.

 

~Rex

[Christopher]

Re: Ghouls that are not undead creatures

 

I don't even know how your version of a Gnoll looks like. I only know the ones from D&D 3.0 and later. If that is the measure, to only real tip I can give: no hair.

 

Building a undead is done by using the automaton rules and buying automaton powers (does not bleed, not hit locations, etc...). So just don't do that and they are as living as anybody else.

 

Again, the question with the speed is: How does that relate to a average humans speed in Heroes Unlimited.

 

Has the tongue range? How good can it manipulate. Generally, having a hand in your mouth could require extra limbs. If it can only attack, should the STR add to the damage?

[TheNaga]

Re: Ghouls that are not undead creatures

 

At the best a normal human with out picking any Physical Skill which can increase it running speed could run at about 20 mph. I was refering to the Gnolls from D&D. I would see a Gnoll as a gnome crossed with a troll (my trolls are a race of giants who do not regenerate heath and limbs)

[Christopher]

Re: Ghouls that are not undead creatures

 

Okay, then I think 16m Running should be okay. They run about 1.4 times the normal human speed and that is the closest we get (since running comes in 2m steps).

[TheNaga]

Re: Ghouls that are not undead creatures

 

Would you see my ghouls as they are right now as being better as npcs and/or pcs?

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Ghouls that are not undead creatures

 

As a tip for the future, Meadyaon, when asking for help converting your characters from another system to HERO, try to describe what their abilities would look like and do if they existed in the real world, not according to the conventions of their original game system, which we may not be familiar with. That will make it easier for us to render your ideas in HERO form.

 

Also keep in mind that a creature under a particular name in one game system/setting may not be comparable to a creature from another game using the same name.

[Lucius]

Re: Ghouls that are not undead creatures

 

Wow. Weren't you just asking about Wendigo and here you are interested in Ghouls?

 

As a break from role playing, if you like board games at all, may I suggest The Poliics of Cannibals:

 

http://stracticalconcepts.com/

 

Now, as for your questions:

 

Meadyaon, I get the distinct impression that you're not just playing in a game, you're the one running it.

 

That being the case, the most important thing you need to learn is, it's YOUR game.

 

If you've got a copy of the Hero Sytem Bestiary or some other product that has a version of a ghoul in it, you can use that. Or NOT. You can change it, or you can write up something completely different that meets your own conception of what a ghoul is.

 

This is really true in any game, but we're especially emphatic about it in Hero.

 

 

Now, what I want to know is, what exactly IS your conception of ghouls? Not undead, I get that. So what are they? People affected by some magical disease or transmissible disease like curse as vampires are often presented as? A seperate biological humanoid species? People who became accursed for resorting to cannibalism, as the wendigo was often said to be?

 

 

You do at least seem to know what you want them to look like and some of their abillities, like how fast you want them to run. Speaking of which.....

 

 

Okay' date=' then I think 16m Running should be okay. They run about 1.4 times the normal human speed and that is the closest we get (since running comes in 2m steps).[/quote']

 

A lot of what Christopher says in this thread is right on target, but this needs to be addressed.

 

How fast something or someone moves in Hero is a product of TWO factors: The amount of movement they have (for example, a normal basic Human starts with 12 meters of Running) AND their SPD Characteristic (for a normal Human, 2.)

 

This seems to confuse a lot of people especially when they're new to Hero. But if you take a normal human and, for example, raise their SPD to 4, then even though it still says "Running: 12 meters" on the sheet, they are now covering ground TWICE as fast as a "normal Human" who has not had points spent on their abilities. In a Turn (12 seconds) this person will be able to move that 12 meter rate FOUR times rather than just TWO.

 

So the questions you want to ask yourself about your ghouls are, how fast do you want them to be relative to an ordinary person? And, how fast do you want them to be relative to an average player character?

 

In a heroic level game (which is what most Fantasy Hero games seem to be) I find that player characters overwhelmingly choose a SPD of 3 and leave their Running unchanged, which makes them a lot faster than your regular, not-heroic peasant or damsel in distress or other "normal" NPC. I think most monsters work well at SPD 3 too. If you give the ghoul SPD 3 and the 16" of Running then if they players run, they will find themselves getting caught - if that's what you want. Similarly, if the ghouls run away, they will likely be able to escape.

 

Then again, if you give the ghouls SPD 3 and buy DOWN their Running to, say, 10 meters, they can still easily catch their normal prey, but can't keep up with the player characters.

 

 

How would I go about making my version of ghouls less like a gnoll?

 

I was going to say this is simple, but then I realized I may not even understand the question. Let me know if I'm reading this right:

 

You have a vision of ghouls - possibly influenced by Lovecraft, possibly by the original folklore - in which they resemble bipedal hyenas, a form that reflects their outsanding characteristic of preying upon the dead. Becaue D&D already has a monster described as a bipedal hyena, namely the gnoll, you want to distinguish your monster from that monster. Have I got it?

 

First, may I suggest using jackals for ghouls instead of hyenas? Beyond that, making them furless or having a dramatically different color or pattern of fur may help.

 

But I think it's possible you simply don't need to worry much. People don't usually confuse Humans, Elves, and Dwarves with one another despite the fact that they could all be described as naked (furless) apes. Especially if your game just doesn't HAVE gnolls I am sure your ghouls will not get confused with them.

 

I would like to keep feature such as deeply shadowed sunken eyes are red orbs that burn like hot coals, skeletal faces and the lower half of their legs are a bit thin.

 

Two game elements you want to look at: the Complication Distinctive Features, and Striking Appearance. Lots of people think Striking Appearance is only for the beautiful, but it can also apply to a frightening appearance.

 

I thought of them being bipedal hyenas beause I have found that favorite form among ghouls to assume is the hyena. Also what abilities and powers should they have?

 

I see you go on to answer your own question.

 

Abilities and Powers: They can labor continuously for a number of hours equal to the P.E. score. After that they will need a 1D4 hour rest (minimum).

 

Christopher already gave one good answer.

 

You could also just give them a high RECovery score so they don't really lose END from Turn to Turn unless and until you apply the "Long Term ENDurance rules."

 

Oh, and if you go with Christopher's answer you might also want to consider putting the same Reduced END on Running as on STR.

 

They can if the rolls are right get the ability to run at 28 mph.

 

I think Christopher and I are both still a little uncertain what is meant by "if the rolls are right." In any case, I hope I explained enough about movement already.

 

Their sense of smell is equal to a polar bear (A polar bear can most likely smell a seal from more than 1 km (0.6 mi.) away and 1 m (3 ft.) under the snow range of).

 

Again, Christopher had an excellent suggestion, to put Telescopic on scent. I would also consider adding "Partially Penetrative" (to smell through up to a meter of snow) and Tracking and maybe even Targetting if you want them to be able to attack someone in the dark by sense of smell alone.

 

Their split tongue like that of a snake, is capable of injecting neural toxins that paralyze victims for 2d4 melee rounds. Nightvision.

 

There are a number of ways to do "paralysis" in the Hero system and Christopher suggested several. It's likely to be an expensive ability, but then it's also likely to be devastating.

 

I believe Nightvision is listed under Enhanced Senses.

 

Description: These vile creatures appear to be six to seven feet tall bipedal hyenas. Their mangy fur is mottled ash-gray in color and the legs have dark horizontal stripes. Their face is skeletal.

 

As in human-skull-like or hyena-skull-like?

 

I mean in Heroes Unlimited if done right a Ghoul could run at 28 mph. Their tongue will always end in a razor sharp claw. Does Champions have a version of a ghouls that is not an undead?

 

If it didn't before - it does now. So, this is for a superhero game? That's what I get for not reading thoroughly all the way through before starting to answer. If this is for a villain encounter in Champions, you should among other things give them at least a SPD of 4 unless they come in very large packs. And paralyzing a superhero is even harder than paralyzing a hero or a "normal."

 

Would you see my ghouls as they are right now as being better as npcs and/or pcs?

 

Let me put it this way - if you see these as potential player characters, I'm very interested in hearing just what kind of game you run. I'm not saying it must be "bad wrong fun" as some people around here like to put it, but it would definitely be unusual. In fact, it does sound like at least some games I've been in....

 

 

Lucius Alexander

 

And a ghastly palindromedary

[Greywind]

Re: Ghouls that are not undead creatures

 

Ghouls = Lawyers

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Ghouls that are not undead creatures

 

I mean in Heroes Unlimited if done right a Ghoul could run at 28 mph. Their tongue will always end in a razor sharp claw. Does Champions have a version of a ghouls that is not an undead? I do not want my ghouls to not be comfused with Gnolls. So what do i do to make the less like a Gnoll in looks?

 

Just ... change it. It looks like whatever you want it to look like.

[TheNaga]

Re: Ghouls that are not undead creatures

 

Their head is hyena-skull-like. I was asking about whether or not they would make good PC or NPC becuase I have thought about making a pc of mine a Ghoul. Another reason they are not undead is that they never start out as being undead in such things as myths and legends.

Wikipedia say this about ghouls: The ghul is a devilish type of jinn believed to be sired by Iblis (he is the Arabic verison of the Devil). The Arabian ghoul is a desert-dwelling, shape shifting demon that can assume the guise of an animal, especially a hyena. It lures unwary travellers into the desert wastes to slay and devour them. The creature also preys on young children, robs graves, drinks blood, steals coins and eats the dead,[5] taking on the form of the one they previously ate (IIRC the Ghouls in Supernatural could take the form of the one they previously ate).

[clsage]

Re: Ghouls that are not undead creatures

 

Since i didn't see anyone else mention them, you might want to take a look at:

 

http://surbrook.devermore.net/adaptationsbook/nehwon/kreeshkra.html

 

and

 

http://surbrook.devermore.net/adaptationscreatures/fiction/reh/hyboreanghoul.html

 

and perhaps

 

http://surbrook.devermore.net/adaptationscreatures/games/coc/ghoul.html

 

If you use these as bases and then tweak them/combine them/adapt them (such as modifying INT scores, adding inches of running, etc) you could probably come up with something that would fit your preferences.

 

-Carl-

[Lucius]

Re: Ghouls that are not undead creatures

 

Their head is hyena-skull-like. I was asking about whether or not they would make good PC or NPC becuase I have thought about making a pc of mine a Ghoul.

 

That's up to whoever is running the game.

 

Another reason they are not undead is that they never start out as being undead in such things as myths and legends.

Wikipedia say this about ghouls: The ghul is a devilish type of jinn believed to be sired by Iblis (he is the Arabic verison of the Devil). The Arabian ghoul is a desert-dwelling, shape shifting demon that can assume the guise of an animal, especially a hyena. It lures unwary travellers into the desert wastes to slay and devour them. The creature also preys on young children, robs graves, drinks blood, steals coins and eats the dead,[5] taking on the form of the one they previously ate (IIRC the Ghouls in Supernatural could take the form of the one they previously ate).

 

So, you want to play a character that lures unwary travellers into the desert wastes to slay and devour them, then takes on their form and steals their coins to surprise and devour their children too before digging up and looting the graves of their ancestors?

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Never travels into the desert waste without a palindromedary

[Christopher]

Re: Ghouls that are not undead creatures

 

How fast something or someone moves in Hero is a product of TWO factors: The amount of movement they have (for example' date=' a normal basic Human starts with 12 meters of Running)[u'] AND[/u] their SPD Characteristic (for a normal Human, 2.)

Right, I always forget that part in the equation. So it's better we talk about meter of running/turn (without NCM):

An average human has 24m/t

Since your Ghouls have 1.4 times of that in the original system, that would be 33.6 m/t in Hero Terms (or simply 34m/t). Of course, it is more intersting how fast you want them to be. Also keep in mind what their Running cost in END/Turn and how much REC they have.

 

Now, depending on their SPD you would have to buy running (SPD 2), keep it on the current level (SPD 3) or could even sell it back (SPD 4 or higher).

 

You must also define what level the player characters have and what level they should have:

Somewhere around normal - not even a anyoance for Supers, mooks for heroic guys.

Standart heroic - Mooks for Supers, real enemys for Heroics; that is where you find the average "Agent" and "Alien Invader"; can be a threath to Supers, in large masses or with advantages in terrain, preparation and/or tactic.

Superheroic - maybe a real chalange for Supers, but when not higher that the PC's they need at least equal number or considreable better tatic. Could wipe out any Heroic group.

[TheNaga]

Re: Ghouls that are not undead creatures

 

I like the Lovecraft Ghoul done for Champions (http://surbrook.devermore.net/adaptationscreatures/games/coc/ghoul.html) is going to help me out the best. What is the best way give them able to physical assume the form of a hyena?

[Christopher]

Re: Ghouls that are not undead creatures

 

I think the Lovecraft Ghoul done fro Champions (http://surbrook.devermore.net/adaptationscreatures/games/coc/ghoul.html) is going to help me out the best. What is the best way give them able to physical assume the form of a hyena?

Best way? Do they really get a hyena, or do they only look like one?

Shapeshift allows look like, but without changing abilites.

Multiform allows becoming somthign totally different. Just make the Hyena form, with all the abilites and complications for that and you are set.

[TheNaga]

Re: Ghouls that are not undead creatures

 

Best way? Do they really get a hyena, or do they only look like one?

Shapeshift allows look like, but without changing abilites.

Multiform allows becoming somthign totally different. Just make the Hyena form, with all the abilites and complications for that and you are set.

Where do i find the info on the hyena for Champions?

[Christopher]

Re: Ghouls that are not undead creatures

 

Where do i find the info on the hyena for Champions?

I can only guess, but my best bet is the HERO System bestiary. Note that the ghuls hyena form could be way more powerfull than the normal, depending on what power level they should have in it.

[Lucius]

Re: Ghouls that are not undead creatures

 

Where do i find the info on the hyena for Champions?

 

The simplest solution is to use Shapeshift and not change any of the ghoul's actual mechanical abilities.

 

Which Hero System books do you actually have?

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary was going to buy Mental Shapeshift, but changed its mind

[TheNaga]

Re: Ghouls that are not undead creatures

 

The Main Book for 6th edition Champions.

[Christopher]

Re: Ghouls that are not undead creatures

 

The Main Book for 6th edition Champions.

Sorry, but there is no Single "Main Book". There are at least the following ones:

Heor System Basic Rulebook (short BR)

Hero System 6th Edition 1 and 2 (short 6E1 and 6E2; full name includes "Character Creation" and "Combat and Adventuring" respectively)

Advanced Player Guide (APG)

Champions 6E (the book for the Superheroic Powerslevel, but not a setting book)

 

Wich one of those do you have?

[TheNaga]

Re: Ghouls that are not undead creatures

 

The Main Book for 6th edition Champions.

[Martin2]

Re: Ghouls that are not undead creatures

 

The Main Book for 6th edition Champions.

 

Thats the one with the picture of the group of super heroes fighting the big monster?

 

If so that explains a lot.

 

You need to buy 6E1 Character Creation and 6E2 Combat and Adventuring first (or the more basic ones).

 

They are the one you need to run the game. The Champions book explains more about the background and you can not run a game without 6E1 and 6E2.