Long tours-of-duty on industrial/mining ships

[Ragitsu]

I was thinking about the video game Dead Space the other day, and how the Ishimura would take three to five years to crack and harvest the contents of an entire planet.

 

Asides from the possibility of those signing on getting very wealthy from such a contract (though this doesn't HAVE to be true), I thought of another issue.

 

Boredom.

 

Assuming there is no "holodeck" or similar entertainment technology, what would the crew do? Would the crew also be there for the entire three to five years, or would they get shore leave / get cycled out for new people that aren't as fatigued?

[Pizza Man]

Re: Long tours-of-duty on industrial/mining ships

 

Sounds to me like 3-5 years of work. 7 days a week. You're out in space, no place for a vacation.

 

Probably need to pass a psych evaluation just to get the job. Workers get their first break only after they return to earth. I would take a year long vacation, save the other 4 years pay and sign up again. I could retire in 20 years this way.

[Ragitsu]

Re: Long tours-of-duty on industrial/mining ships

 

You're out in space' date=' no place for a vacation.[/quote']

 

Consider that the ship may be relatively close to another populated planet, or even a space station/O'Neill cylinder/etc.

 

Man...three to five years on a stationary ship would drive many people crazy.

[Christopher]

Re: Long tours-of-duty on industrial/mining ships

 

I was thinking about the video game Dead Space the other day' date=' and how the [i']Ishimura[/i] would take three to five years to crack and harvest the contents of an entire planet.

 

Asides from the possibility of those signing on getting very wealthy from such a contract (though this doesn't HAVE to be true), I thought of another issue.

 

Boredom.

 

Assuming there is no "holodeck" or similar entertainment technology, what would the crew do? Would the crew also be there for the entire three to five years, or would they get shore leave / get cycled out for new people that aren't as fatigued?

I think this is one of the Reasons the Enterprise D was designed to house the families too. I think 400 Man crew, 600 cilvilians was the official acounting. It was effectively a fully equipped city with warp drive.

 

Even with psychological screening I think the crew needs some leisure time or goes feral. In Warhammer 40k RPG there are things like "pleasure servitors" for trade ships or mining outposts (se the "Quote of the Week"-thread and the Rogue Trader Campaign). And we had Lucius Thread regarding "FemBots".

So some type of recreation had to exist on this ship, even if it was never shown in the game.

 

How good where Robotics/Androids/Virtual Reality in the Dead Space series?

[McCoy]

Re: Long tours-of-duty on industrial/mining ships

 

What do people do on a six month tour of duty on a nuclear sub? What do they do when they Winter Over in Antarctica? Extrapolate.

[Ragitsu]

Re: Long tours-of-duty on industrial/mining ships

 

How good where Robotics/Androids/Virtual Reality in the Dead Space series?

 

Robots are fairly simple, and appear obviously non-human.

There are no androids, far as I can tell.

No VR has been shown.

 

Now, it's possible there ARE androids and virtual reality as part of Dead Space canon, but they haven't been made apparent in either game yet.

 

It is noted that there are movie advertisements...possibly hinting at a theatre onboard? In any case, I read that it is indeed stated that the crew gets cycled out, so there is that.

[Shadow Hawk]

Re: Long tours-of-duty on industrial/mining ships

 

What do people do on a six month tour of duty on a nuclear sub? What do they do when they Winter Over in Antarctica? Extrapolate.

 

"Boomers" (Ballistic Missile Submarines) do only three month tours underwater, and have had major problems. Thier cycle is three months training 'on the boat', three months underwater, one month off, five months training in classrooms.

 

Fast Attack subs do longer deployments, but come up occassionally and pull into a liberty port.

[Ragitsu]

Re: Long tours-of-duty on industrial/mining ships

 

Besides which, that comparison is a bit of a stretch: at least submarines can/do put into port...right? And, at least you're on a planet.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: Long tours-of-duty on industrial/mining ships

 

Lots of boardgames, videogames, movies, roleplaying (yes, the pen and paper type) and more reading than you could possibly imagine. However for the vast majority of their time they will be working and sleeping. If the ship has extensive exercise facilities, many of the workers will spend their off hours working out (like prisoners do).

 

Such a vessel would be a prime stop for travelling entertainers of both the legitimate and the intimate types. Especially if the crew is large (over 1000) and well-paid (which is likely). As far as the crew getting rich off the haul, that is unlikely because such an endeavor as dismantling a planet for its primary resources is likely being spearheaded by a wealthy corporation, and they are not known for their willingness to profitshare.

[McCoy]

Re: Long tours-of-duty on industrial/mining ships

 

"Boomers" (Ballistic Missile Submarines) do only three month tours underwater, and have had major problems. Thier cycle is three months training 'on the boat', three months underwater, one month off, five months training in classrooms.

 

Fast Attack subs do longer deployments, but come up occassionally and pull into a liberty port.

Ex Air Force myself, but I had heard that at one time the Navy tried to alternate as much as possible six months on shore and six months on ship duty. And that for some subs, this meant six months without making port. Maybe I was told wrong.

 

 

 

When I was young, my father worked fifty, sometimes sixty hours a week. I use to feel sorry for him. Then I found out that a typical day's work for him was about an hour and a half of set-up, then hang around for seven or eight or even nine hours in case something went wrong. The men on the shift could read, watch TV, play cards, even catch a nap as long as they didn't all go to sleep at the same time. About one a month something would go wrong, and twouldwyld have to stop, then go through the setup again in the middle of a shift.

 

Kind of think high tech automated mining might be like that. Long shifts of being available if needed.

[Folded]

Re: Long tours-of-duty on industrial/mining ships

 

Buddy of mine used to work as an actual, honest-to-god nuclear engineer on a boomer. I never asked him how long the deployments were, but he said that most waking hours were spent in maintenance of one kind or another, running drills or just ship's operation. The difference between the space station and a sub, however, is size. Subs have zero extra space, and hot-bunking is (or was) the norm for most. On a station big enough to crack a planet open and suck it dry, there'd be more than enough space to avoid such things. Even adding a few million extra cubic meters to keep the crew happy would be defensible as a long-term investment and insurance reduction. Depending on the number of crew, providing a small internal economy (restaurants, bars, prostitutes, gambling, gyms, etc) would be worth it, if only to drain the crew's pay back towards the company. For a thousand labor-crew, add 75-100 'support' crew and things'd work out just fine. See 'Outland' with Sean Connery and remove the overcrowding. And psychosis-inducing drugs, of course (unless you're a GM).

[McCoy]

Re: Long tours-of-duty on industrial/mining ships

 

Buddy of mine used to work as an actual' date=' honest-to-god nuclear engineer on a boomer. I never asked him how long the deployments were, but he said that most waking hours were spent in maintenance of one kind or another, running drills or just ship's operation. The difference between the space station and a sub, however, is size. Subs have zero extra space, and hot-bunking is (or was) the norm for most. On a station big enough to crack a planet open and suck it dry, there'd be more than enough space to avoid such things. Even adding a few million extra cubic meters to keep the crew happy would be defensible as a long-term investment and insurance reduction. Depending on the number of crew, providing a small internal economy (restaurants, bars, prostitutes, gambling, gyms, etc) would be worth it, if only to drain the crew's pay back towards the company. For a thousand labor-crew, add 75-100 'support' crew and things'd work out just fine. See 'Outland' with Sean Connery and remove the overcrowding. And psychosis-inducing drugs, of course (unless you're a GM).[/quote']

And the fricken SIDES of beef! Seriously, what kind of idiot would ship BONES that far? By the time you factor in freight, you could have had an equal mass of filet mignon for almost the same price!

[Ranxerox]

Re: Long tours-of-duty on industrial/mining ships

 

I was thinking about the video game Dead Space the other day' date=' and how the [i']Ishimura[/i] would take three to five years to crack and harvest the contents of an entire planet.

 

Asides from the possibility of those signing on getting very wealthy from such a contract (though this doesn't HAVE to be true), I thought of another issue.

 

Boredom.

 

Assuming there is no "holodeck" or similar entertainment technology, what would the crew do? Would the crew also be there for the entire three to five years, or would they get shore leave / get cycled out for new people that aren't as fatigued?

 

I'm working my way through Dead Space right now and I think that I'm most of the way through it. Based on the things that I haven't seen - living quarters, gyms, recreation areas, etc - I'm pretty sure that the game only shows a fraction of the Ishimura. Since Isaac is always rushing to advert dome and to go parts of the ship that aren't required by the mission would just give him more opportunities to get killed by the space zombies it makes sense that he only goes places required by the mission. So the Ishimura might be the size of a small city for all we know.

[Ragitsu]

Re: Long tours-of-duty on industrial/mining ships

 

I'm working my way through Dead Space right now and I think that I'm most of the way through it. Based on the things that I haven't seen - living quarters' date=' gyms, recreation areas, etc - I'm pretty sure that the game only shows a fraction of the Ishimura. Since Isaac is always rushing to advert dome and to go parts of the ship that aren't required by the mission would just give him more opportunities to get killed by the space zombies it makes sense that he only goes places required by the mission. So the Ishimura might be the size of a small city for all we know.[/quote']

 

According to the Dead Space Wiki,

 

"According to the the artbook that came with the special edition release of the first Dead Space, the length of the ship is roughly a little over 5,300 feet which would convert to a little over a mile(1.6 km) long from stern to bow. The width remains unknown with a height of roughly 1,550 feet."

[Ranxerox]

Re: Long tours-of-duty on industrial/mining ships

 

Well, you certainly could house a city in those dimensions (think of a mile high skyscraper). The question is how much of that volume is open to human habitation.

[Ragitsu]

Re: Long tours-of-duty on industrial/mining ships

 

Well' date=' you certainly could house a city in those dimensions (think of a mile high skyscraper). The question is how much of that volume is open to human habitation.[/quote']

 

Probably not much.

 

Considering there are 1,332 people on board, and most of the ship would be devoted to ore collection/extraction/refinement, I don't see too many getting luxury suites. That said, even if you have a city, it's still a pretty isolated one...

[sinanju]

Re: Long tours-of-duty on industrial/mining ships

 

Probably not much.

 

Considering there are 1,332 people on board, and most of the ship would be devoted to ore collection/extraction/refinement, I don't see too many getting luxury suites. That said, even if you have a city, it's still a pretty isolated one...

 

I grew up in a small town of 1,100 people. 1,332 people does not a "city" make. Plus, you're going to have a "city" composed almost entirely of the sort of personalities which are a) attracted to and capable of working long-term, isolated jobs. Not exactly the typical city dweller...or store keeper or entertainer, for that matter.

[Markdoc]

Re: Long tours-of-duty on industrial/mining ships

 

Yeah, but look back a century. Ordinary seamen signed on for 10 years. If they were lucky, that might involve a variety of short trips with liberty in between. If unlucky, that might involve 5+ years without a break except short shore leaves - and damn few of those. People adapt.

 

Given that a mile-long ship like the Ishimura with a crew of 1000+ contains far more possibility for entertainment than a 90 foot long brig with a crew of 65, I'd say it might be rough, but it'd certainly be doable, even if there were no leaves.

 

cheers, Mark

[Steve]

Re: Long tours-of-duty on industrial/mining ships

 

I would imagine some kind of support staff and the equivalent of camp followers are needed to keep the crew from going nuts over a long deployment. I think the space version of a company mining town would be about right.

 

If the company didn't provide such support staff, you could also see enterprising sorts set up an underground economy that might fulfill needs. Prostitution is an ugly concept, but it can happen if the crew is of mixed gender. In dramatic fiction, there also always seems to be at least one guy who can get rare stuff like chocolate and drugs through his connections.

[sinanju]

Re: Long tours-of-duty on industrial/mining ships

 

So, we have Suki Tawdry, who works her regular shifts and then earns a little extra money by "dating" other workers in return for valuable consideration. It provides her with companionship, attention, entertainment, sex, and a steady source of cash and gifts (food, drink, videos--or whatever, clothing, perfume, chocolate, whatever valuables the other miners have or can get, and will barter for her favors).

 

Then we have Rizzo, who "knows people". They might be his family, friends, or pure business acquaintances. He receives regular "care packages" of entertainment media, booze, drugs, snacks, exotic or hard-to-get condiments, foods, etc. which he will gladly part with...for a price. Cash is good, of course. But just as often, he'll trade up to something bigger or better, or just something he doesn't have/can't get but can get big money for from someone else (knowing who wants what and who else has it can be valuable information). There are probably a number of people getting care packages--but only Rizzo has built a network of suppliers who can trade with him so they all profit. He may have to pay a cut to one or more people to assure his supplies get to him, but that's just the cost of doing business.

 

Then there's Scotty, who has no doubt built a vacuum still somewhere and is producing moonshine. There may or may not be alcohol rations available on the ship, but he can supplement that with plenty of high-octane booze of his own making.

[Steve]

Re: Long tours-of-duty on industrial/mining ships

 

So, we have Suki Tawdry, who works her regular shifts and then earns a little extra money by "dating" other workers in return for valuable consideration. It provides her with companionship, attention, entertainment, sex, and a steady source of cash and gifts (food, drink, videos--or whatever, clothing, perfume, chocolate, whatever valuables the other miners have or can get, and will barter for her favors).

 

Then we have Rizzo, who "knows people". They might be his family, friends, or pure business acquaintances. He receives regular "care packages" of entertainment media, booze, drugs, snacks, exotic or hard-to-get condiments, foods, etc. which he will gladly part with...for a price. Cash is good, of course. But just as often, he'll trade up to something bigger or better, or just something he doesn't have/can't get but can get big money for from someone else (knowing who wants what and who else has it can be valuable information). There are probably a number of people getting care packages--but only Rizzo has built a network of suppliers who can trade with him so they all profit. He may have to pay a cut to one or more people to assure his supplies get to him, but that's just the cost of doing business.

 

Then there's Scotty, who has no doubt built a vacuum still somewhere and is producing moonshine. There may or may not be alcohol rations available on the ship, but he can supplement that with plenty of high-octane booze of his own making.

 

These are pretty much the sorts of examples that an underground economy could generate, especially in dramatic fiction. Since we are probably not talking about a military vessel with rigorous discipline but the spacer version of "blue collar" workers, things will be somewhat looser.

 

The company could provide things like sex workers and other entertainment for the miners and other crew, but the cost in environmental load might prohibit it. Oxygen and food production cost money and affect the bottom line. A cheaper option is just looking the other way when it comes to people like Suki, Rizzo and Scotty making a little extra on the side.

 

There could also be informal alliances and divisions drawn up, and those could provide plot hooks. Maybe Suki only shares her favors among the environmental crew, since Tammy in power generation could get violent at another woman moving in on her turf there. Rizzo the environmental tech could be one of Suki's favorites, since he always seems to be able to get her silk stockings and Swiss chocolate, so she always treats him extra nice. And Scotty and Rizzo are working together on making and marketing better alcoholic products, since Rizzo knows the company rep on site is a secret drunkard.

[Shadow Hawk]

Re: Long tours-of-duty on industrial/mining ships

 

Even on military vessels, a 'secret economy' can rise up. Porn, alchohol, computer games, dvds, I saw them during deployments... and heard about drugs and (on mixed crew ships) prostitution.

 

(For a WW2 example, look up "Torpedo Juice" and "Tuba"... Alchohol fueled torpedoes sometimes didn't have as much fuel as originally installed. "Tuba" is fermented rice and raisins, usually made by a alliance of cooks who had the raw materials and engineers who had copper tubing and heat sources needed to make a still.)

[Steve]

Re: Long tours-of-duty on industrial/mining ships

 

Even on military vessels, a 'secret economy' can rise up. Porn, alchohol, computer games, dvds, I saw them during deployments... and heard about drugs and (on mixed crew ships) prostitution.

 

(For a WW2 example, look up "Torpedo Juice" and "Tuba"... Alchohol fueled torpedoes sometimes didn't have as much fuel as originally installed. "Tuba" is fermented rice and raisins, usually made by a alliance of cooks who had the raw materials and engineers who had copper tubing and heat sources needed to make a still.)

 

Oh, I didn't mean that such things wouldn't occur on a military vessel, just that it would probably be more secretive in nature and not as open. People need outlets for stress and the relief of boredom, and if nothing official is provided, something unofficial will fill the void.

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Long tours-of-duty on industrial/mining ships

 

This thread keeps bringing up images of the Vegas strip in my head.

 

Ever wander around the "marketplace" at the Aladdin, the canals of the Venetian.... A single Vegas style outfit with a few suitable tweaks (less emphasis on gambling, more variety of activities), combined with what amounts to a typical local community center would probably cover most morale points.

[The Weapon]

Re: Long tours-of-duty on industrial/mining ships

 

Lots of boardgames, videogames, movies, roleplaying (yes, the pen and paper type) and more reading than you could possibly imagine. However for the vast majority of their time they will be working and sleeping. If the ship has extensive exercise facilities, many of the workers will spend their off hours working out (like prisoners do).

 

Such a vessel would be a prime stop for travelling entertainers of both the legitimate and the intimate types. Especially if the crew is large (over 1000) and well-paid (which is likely). As far as the crew getting rich off the haul, that is unlikely because such an endeavor as dismantling a planet for its primary resources is likely being spearheaded by a wealthy corporation, and they are not known for their willingness to profitshare.

 

Actually any competent corporation will pay really well for this sort of work. Consider, if the crew is as small as 1,000 (and for the amount of resources gained that's small) and works for 5 years then then direct labor costs are only 5,000 person-years. This means for a Mars-sized planet there is over 10^15 tonnes per person-year to take. Say only 1/10 is worth extracting and it's 10 smaller than Mars, that's still 10^13 T/py. Even at much lower prices than materials currently get that's still a lot of value for the labor. Paying more for quality labor to get that value more quickly makes a lot of economic sense both in terms of better use of a huge amount of capital and getting a huge payout earlier so it can be reinvested. This and the less than ideal workplace environment, long commitments required etc. make it important and hard to persuade quality crew to sign on. Mucho dinero is the obvious answer, although no doubt there are other inducements that can be offered. For instance if you serve successfully for one trip you can get your entire family off that hellhole you call your home planet.