An inherent Jinx power?

[Chryckan]

Am fairly new to HERO so there are some things I've haven't really gotten the hang of yet.

 

Now I have an idea of a hero that sort of like Longshot in X-men have a single luck based power (Technically IIRC Longshot also have hollow bones making him lighter than normal.)

 

However, were Longshot went around being lucky all the time I want my character to walk around giving other people bad luck all the time.

More specificity the idea is for my hero to have a power that's always on (even when he's unconscious) but that he can't control (it's always there affecting targets whether the hero would want it or not) which jinxes any opponent or enemy he faces tipping any combat or competition slightly in my hero's favour.

 

The thought is that anyone who opposes or tries to harm the hero will suffer a small misfortune regardless of the distance to my hero.

In other words the sniper 1 mile away gets as affected as the guy playing Monopoly with my hero on the other side of the table.

 

But here is the kicker, I also want the power to switch targets if/when my hero starts to lose and/or lose confidence and instead of his enemies becoming unlucky it is his allies who instead suffers misfortunes. (If it so happens that first his enemies gets bad luck and then his allies gets bad luck in the same fight I can live with it. )

 

I've gotten this far on my own before getting flummoxed.

 

Jinxed

Major Transform 9d6 (Targets into people with unluck) (90 points) Limited Target (Enemies/Opponents*) -1/4

 

(*Opponents because I want the power to work against people he play poker or boardgames with too. Not just enemies trying to kill him.)

 

 

Here are some of the things I can't figure out.

 

-Should I add the price for the dice of unluck to the cost of the power?

 

-On page 307 in 6E1 it says that you should treat transforms and complications like you ju do with transforms and abilities/powers. But the rules about granting powers with transform says that you have to offset the granted power with complications. Does that mean I have to give the targets a power/ability to counteract the unluck complication?

Like my foes get 3d6 unluck and 18d6 blast?

 

-How can I make sure that it really has any effect? If I understands the rules correctly the power would need at least 3 dice rolls just to determine if a target is affected. Once to see if the power hit, once to see if the power did enough damage to transform the target and once when the transformed target checks to see if he/she/it becomes unlucky. I mean a target would already need to be unlucky to fail all those rolls in a row and become unlucky.

 

-How can I control the degree of unluck the targets get. I want them to get jinxed, not cursed with bad fortune. I'm after the degree you see when a board game player says "anything but a 1" and then promptly rolls a 1. Not that the board game player has to concede the game because an meteoroid just crashed into his car outside.

But it feels that the more unluck die I grant a target the bigger the chance there is that he become extreemly unlucky but if I don't give the target enough die the odds for it rolling a 1 is too slim for the power to have effect.

 

-And finally as for switching targets and affecting allies when he's losing I have no clue how to do except that it's probably a side effect.

[Kraven Kor]

Re: An inherent Jinx power?

 

Transform is probably not the best way to simulate this.

 

To your first question; You aren't giving the target a power. You are giving them a disadvantage, which transform can do, but may be a bit clunky. I would - and this is not exactly "rules as written" - build it as "Luck (Usable As an Attack)" and just state that it grants unluck rather than luck, with a defined defense against the power - possibly Power Defense, or if target has Luck as a power maybe?

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: An inherent Jinx power?

 

Sounds to me like your PC has lots of abilities to represent other people having bad luck against him; DCV levels, good skill checks representing 'you're not doing well' rather than 'I'm doing well', Missile Deflection ('you missed!'), an Indirect Energy Blast that could represent things falling on them, stuff like that.

[Folded]

Re: An inherent Jinx power?

 

If you want to get into a REALLY weird build, try this one. It is based on the idea (debatable) that everyone has 0d6 Luck and 0d6 Unluck. If your GM is willing to go along with that, then this should work. It's a little broader than what you're looking for, but you can always cut things down.

 

1) Drain Luck - 3d6 - This will give the target roughly 2d6 Unluck per use. 30 Active Points

2) Aid Luck - 3d6 - This will give the target roughly 2d6 Luck per use. 30 Active Points

 

One of the advantages of using Drain/Aid is that these powers naturally fade over time. With Transform, they're stuck with whatever you do to them until you change them back or the cure is applied. It also works immeditately, doesn't have to be compared to the total BODY the target has (meaning that NPC's with high BODY will be as easily affected as normals). All in all, an interesting idea (that means I'm going to steal it for my own games).

 

To get the 'always affecting targets regardless', there are a few ways to go. One is to put No Conscious Control on them, which means the GM decides when they happen and to whom. Another option is to limit the Drain to Opponents Only(or Always On, not both) and No Range, then take Area Effect(Radius), Reduced Endurance (0END), Persistent, and Personal Immunity. With the field, since it will be continually draining the Luck of the people around you, I'd cut it down to no more than 1d6 (2 if its a powerful campaign), which means you'll be handing out about one level of Unluck per two successful attacks. Opponents Only I'd call a -0 Limitation.

 

With a Radius of up to 4m, each die of Drain/Aid will be 27 AP and 11 RC. At 5-8m, its 30/12. 9-16=32/13, and so on.

 

Note that this is not necessarily the best way to build this power, but it's what occurred to me when I started thinking about it. Enraged/Berserk might be a good model for determining whether or not your character is in a particular mood. A custom Complication could change the Opponents Only to Friends Only as the equivalent of the Enraged effect. Also, consider playing with the Fade rate to make the effect last longer. That can be a good way to tweak how deeply into Luck or Unluck the target gets. Normal Fade is 5 AP per turn, which is exactly the AP of one level of Luck/Unluck.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: An inherent Jinx power?

 

Even if that did work, you can't Drain powers below zero, and Unluck is not 'negative Luck'. One is a power, the other is a Disadvantage.

[Kraven Kor]

Re: An inherent Jinx power?

 

Sounds to me like your PC has lots of abilities to represent other people having bad luck against him; DCV levels' date=' good skill checks representing 'you're not doing well' rather than 'I'm doing well', Missile Deflection ('you missed!'), an Indirect Energy Blast that could represent things falling on them, stuff like that.[/quote']

 

And I would agree with this assessment as well.

[Folded]

Re: An inherent Jinx power?

 

Even if that did work' date=' you can't Drain powers below zero, and Unluck is not 'negative Luck'. One is a power, the other is a Disadvantage.[/quote']

 

Depends on the GM. I had one once who allowed powers Drained below 0 to extend the recovery time. And if Luck(Usable as Attack) can be redefined as being Unluck, instead, then it seems to me that defining the whole thing as a spectrum works logically, if not strictly RAW. The only reason that Luck and Unluck are different categories is because there is no allowance for a Power that you pay points for that causes you 'damage'.

 

Besides, I said it was a REALLY weird build.

[Christopher]

Re: An inherent Jinx power?

 

Sounds to me like your PC has lots of abilities to represent other people having bad luck against him; DCV levels' date=' good skill checks representing 'you're not doing well' rather than 'I'm doing well', Missile Deflection ('you missed!'), an Indirect Energy Blast that could represent things falling on them, stuff like that.[/quote']

Totally agree. I an only advise agaisnt Luck, to undefined and subject to GM-interpretation.

Consider a VPP for this. Would buy of the Roll and maybe the switching time, add Trigger (so it works on it's own) and the limitation to affect freinds/being uncontrolled. Of course the Active Points could jump really high that way...

And there is the problem that things like attacks cost endurance...

 

Another idea to affect allies:

Side Effect

It's designed to work with some kind of activation roll, so perhaps a ego Roll would be the right thing here?

 

Depends on the GM. I had one once who allowed powers Drained below 0 to extend the recovery time.

That is actually Raw. But that is the only effect, no "get's the opoosite power".

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: An inherent Jinx power?

 

Decide what you want the unlucky things to do to targets.

 

For instance, if someone attacking you suddenly has their vision disrupted by getting something in their eye at a critical time, you could represent this with additional DCV, or Skill Levels that add to DCV, or work out a Flash build with Damage Shield.

 

If someone chasing you "coincidentally" gets hit by a car, build this as a Physical Blast, with the Indirect and possibly Triggered Advantages. If they instead lose you in the crowd, you could build this as Invisibility (in crowds).

 

Combat Luck is a way to represent you being lucky compared to your enemies, but it could as easily represent your enemies being unlucky compared to you. For variants you could rebuild it using Damage Reduction or Damage Negation.

[Folded]

Re: An inherent Jinx power?

 

That is actually Raw. But that is the only effect' date=' no "get's the opoosite power".[/quote']

 

I have never really considered Luck to be a Power in the sense that others are. It's more like a property of the character, somewhere between a characteristic, a power and a talent. And I recognize that Unluck can be present on a character that also has Luck. They don't cancel out. But I think that a Luck Drain could reasonably be said to work the way I intend in the build above. That's a matter of interpretation, though, dependent entirely on that particular model of Luck/Unluck.

 

The archetype I look to is Talisman (I think that's his name) from Justice Machine. That was his whole schtick, to be lucky or unlucky, depending on the morality of his recent actions. There was a sliding scale to his karma that appeals to me. Do a little bad, be a little unlucky. Do a lot of good, be really lucky. Of course, he had Plot Luck, but it makes more sense to me to think of things that way than as it is presented.

 

As a contribution to the continuing suggestions, how about Transferring between opponents and teammates? Lots of Good/Bad Luck opportunities there. Bad guy gets a slight muscle pull just as Good guy is setting up for his Martial Strike. Reduce the Fade rate to 5/phase and it becomes a little series of events, rather than a lasting advantage. Extend the Fade rate and the Bad guys are going to have some really bad days. Bookkeeping issues are a possible problem, though.

[Kraven Kor]

Re: An inherent Jinx power?

 

That's it, the next time I get to actually play HERO... I'm building a probability manipulator

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: An inherent Jinx power?

 

*checks book*

 

Luck is most definitely a Power.

[Tasha]

Re: An inherent Jinx power?

 

Also, bringing your foes unluck is like your hero has luck of his own. I would write up the Powers like Chris Goodwin suggested, then I would make sure that the character has dice of luck. Yeah it's unreliable and open to GM interpretation, but for a character who is a jinx it can save their tail.

[dmjalund]

Re: An inherent Jinx power?

 

the thing that annoys me about Luck, is that the player has to hacve some luck, before the PC benefits from the powe (no "Standard Effect" version of the power)

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: An inherent Jinx power?

 

That's it' date=' the next time I get to actually [i']play[/i] HERO... I'm building a probability manipulator

 

I actually did build a lucky character once. Besides the things I mentioned, he had obscenely high Lockpicking ("Wow, it sure was lucky for me that door was unlocked!") and some Wealth (because if he needed some money he'd go buy a lottery ticket).

[Folded]

Re: An inherent Jinx power?

 

I explored a related possibility in a story, once. The character appeared to have great luck, everything always worked out just right. But he really had a limited precognitive ability. He didn't know the future, he would just get gut feelings that THIS was the right action to take. And in his case, it was very sophisticated. He played the casinos, of course, but part of what the power did was to tell him when to lose, as well as when to win. Getting noticed by the house for being too lucky would obviate his ability, so it protected him and itself by making sure that nobody put together that he was really doing quite well. He'd spend several weeks going to different places, and at the end, would walk away with a nice chunk of change (a quarter mil or so).

 

That might be an interesting way to describe a jinx. It's not that probability is being affected, but people's ability to make decisions. Good luck represents better hunches, intuition, and guesses, the character acting upon information they are not aware they have access to. Bad luck is the opposite, maybe even denying them access to information they do have. Make it powerful enough and it starts stretching backward through time, so that the (un)lucky character is at the receiving end of a long series of decisions that he or she indirectly influenced.

[Lucius]

Re: An inherent Jinx power?

 

Oh For tuna's sake.

 

Keep it simple.

 

 

Jinx: Luck 12d6, Manifests as Unluck for Opponents (+0), Uncontrolled (Shut down condition: Loss of confidence; +1/2) (90 Active Points); Limited Power Regardless of roll, never more than 3 levels of Unluck to any one person (-1), Side Effects: Effects allies instead (Side Effect occurs when character stops using power; -3/4), Extra Time (Full Phase, Only to Activate, -1/4) Real Cost 30

 

 

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary gets Luck 2d6 (10 Active Points); Increased Endurance Cost (x10 END; -4), Costs Endurance (Only Costs END to Activate; -1/4), Side Effects (Equal Unluck if Luck roll fails; -1/4) Real Cost 2 End cost 10 because it's pushing its Luck

[Sean Waters]

Re: An inherent Jinx power?

 

Depends on the GM. I had one once who allowed powers Drained below 0 to extend the recovery time. And if Luck(Usable as Attack) can be redefined as being Unluck, instead, then it seems to me that defining the whole thing as a spectrum works logically, if not strictly RAW. The only reason that Luck and Unluck are different categories is because there is no allowance for a Power that you pay points for that causes you 'damage'.

 

Besides, I said it was a REALLY weird build.

 

Pretty sure that you can not use adjustment powers to add a power the target has not got. Aside from that the Luck/Unluck mechanic is messy and arbitrary.

[Sean Waters]

Re: An inherent Jinx power?

 

I GM at least as much as I play (neither of which is often enough) but as a GM I do not like 'Luck' because it basically requires me to work harder to make something happen in the story that makes sense and accurately reflects the point investment that the character has made. The very way it is calculate makes working out how effective it should be nigh impossible.

 

1d6 luck = 1 in 6 chance of one six

2d6 luck = 1 in 3 chance of one six, 1 in 36 chance of two sixes

3d6 luck = 1 in 2 chance of one six, 1 in 14.4 chance of two sixes, one in 216 chance of three sixes.

 

12d6, which is 60 points worth, gives an even chance of two sixes and a very good chance of three sixes (my maths is not up to it, but about 30 to 40 % chance.

 

So for a 60 point power, one time in 3 you can stumble across the campaign major villain accidentally or be saved from certain death?

How does that usefully compare to the same investment in (say) a variable power pool?

 

Even how often it is used is completely arbitrary.

 

Luck is broken, as it is written.

[Christopher]

Re: An inherent Jinx power?

 

the thing that annoys me about Luck' date=' is that the player has to hacve some luck, before the PC benefits from the powe (no "Standard Effect" version of the power)[/quote']

There is a GM option to aply cumulative (APG II 30). When you use it you add the dice togehter and every full 6 points get's you 1 Luck effect.

And from there it is only one Step to standart effect

 

I explored a related possibility in a story' date=' once. The character appeared to have great luck, everything always worked out just right. But he really had a limited precognitive ability. He didn't know the future, he would just get gut feelings that THIS was the right action to take. And in his case, it was very sophisticated. He played the casinos, of course, but part of what the power did was to tell him when to lose, as well as when to win. Getting noticed by the house for being too lucky would obviate his ability, so it protected him and itself by making sure that nobody put together that he was really doing quite well. [/quote']

Overall Skill levels (5 for 60 AP, but they add to every skill and even some non-skill rolls like Contact availibility). Maybe coupeled with Danger Sense and Defense Maneuver if he is a fighter.

 

To get to the original concept:

How do fights work in your mind? How would a fight with say, Ogre, turn out if both are on the same powerlevel? Where are the limits of his power? How obvious is it that he causes this effects to a casual onlooker? Are there any special sense that can detect teh workings of his luck?

[Chryckan]

Re: An inherent Jinx power?

 

First off, I agree that a lot of powers and abilities etc. could represent this power such as DCV and so on.

In fact if it wasn't for the twist of affecting allies when things turns sour for the character then the Luck power would work fine. The fact that it's the enemies that is unlucky in fights and not the character that's lucky would simply be a special effect.

 

It's the twist I having trouble with. How do I switch from foes to allies? How do I measure confidence/moral?

 

Oh For tuna's sake.

 

Keep it simple.

 

 

Jinx: Luck 12d6, Manifests as Unluck for Opponents (+0), Uncontrolled (Shut down condition: Loss of confidence; +1/2) (90 Active Points); Limited Power Regardless of roll, never more than 3 levels of Unluck to any one person (-1), Side Effects: Effects allies instead (Side Effect occurs when character stops using power; -3/4), Extra Time (Full Phase, Only to Activate, -1/4) Real Cost 30

 

 

 

Lucius Alexander

 

This is sort of what I'm after. But what variable does loss of confidence count as?

 

 

To get to the original concept:

How do fights work in your mind? How would a fight with say, Ogre, turn out if both are on the same powerlevel? Where are the limits of his power? How obvious is it that he causes this effects to a casual onlooker? Are there any special sense that can detect teh workings of his luck?

 

Basically, I picture him to have a Batmanesque fighting style. Elite human, martial arts with a utility belt with toys like flash-bangs, batarangs and bat-shark repellents.

 

Then the jinx power comes in and tips the balance slightly over in my guy's favour.

Things like a stack of boxes falls down in front to the bad guy when he's running and slowing him down. A clip jams when a bad guy reloads forcing him to unjam the gun and givin my hero a little extra time to act. A curtain blows in front of my hero temporarily obscuring the snipers view just as he was about to pull the trigger. The bad guy steps on a bottle and loses his footing for a second during a fight.

 

Nothing major like getting hit by trucks or weapons exploding and such.

Small everyday examples of bad luck. Stuff that happens to everyone in RL but we never really notices except for the occasional curse.

 

As for how obvious the power is I'd say it isn't, at all.

If a bunch of bad guys compared notes they might wonder how come they seem to be more unlucky fighting my hero than otherwise but would still probably dismiss it as a fluke because stranger things have happened.

Don't plan to even let the hero know about the power. Instead he'll just go around thinking he's awesome for winning so easy when he wins and to curse his luck for always having such bungling team mates who keep screwing up and causing him to loose when things go bad.

[Sean Waters]

Re: An inherent Jinx power?

 

Why not just go for +4 overall levels.

 

Not that cheap but it does what you want: remember, this is Hero. When you need them, you get access (subject to any limitations you put on the power) to those four levels.

 

Someone points a gun at you and your levels mean you do not get hit: well that could be because the shot went wide, something distracted the attacker, the bullet failed to go off...

 

You need to diffuse a bomb and have seconds left, you grab some wires and yank...and the four levels cut in.

 

You really need to break out of the cell...and the four levels go into damage.

 

You need to find a file in a computer and have almost no time to search so take a wild guess...and the levels are used to offset a time penalty for coming down the time chart (a favourite of HyperMan, I believe).

 

All those things could be manifestations of luck. All of them can be done with skill levels. The described sfx can make it appear to be luck. The effect is completely quantifiable.

[Lucius]

Re: An inherent Jinx power?

 

This is sort of what I'm after.

 

Thanks! Glad to help.

 

Feels funny though, usually I'm the one brewing up the hypercomplicated Powers.

 

But what variable does loss of confidence count as?

 

A suggestion:

 

Roll for EGO or PRE when any of these occur:

 

-Overcome by a PRE attack

 

-An ally goes down

 

-Take BOD damage

 

-Any major setback

 

-Player and referee agree that the character should face a crisis of confidence

 

Do not even roll (shift is automatic) when

 

-Fall unconscious in battle

 

-Player and referee agree that the character should lose heart

 

 

Note that normally a character with both Luck and Unluck will be Lucky when losing and Unlucky when winning, and you're reversing that. Your character is therefore likely to either win spectacularly or lose spectacularly.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

And a saltatory palindromedary

[Chryckan]

Re: An inherent Jinx power?

 

Okay, using Lucius example as a template I tried to come up with something that I think is as close as I can get to what I'm after...

 

Jinx: Luck 12d6, Manifests as Unluck for Opponents (+0), Inherent (+1/4), Uncontrolled (Switch condition: Loss of confidence; +1/2) (105 Active Points); Limited Power Regardless of roll, never more than 3 levels of Unluck to any one person (-1), Always On (-1/2), Limited Target Opponents (-1/4), Side Effects: Effects allies instead (Side Effect occurs when character loses confidence; -3/4), Real Cost 30

 

Two questions:

 

1. Do I really need the uncontrolled advantage? Is there some way of just putting a condition on to the side effect limitation?

 

2. Since the power is essentially undetectable do I need to by some sort of invisible power advantage?

[Lucius]

Re: An inherent Jinx power?

 

Okay, using Lucius example as a template I tried to come up with something that I think is as close as I can get to what I'm after...

 

Jinx: Luck 12d6, Manifests as Unluck for Opponents (+0), Inherent (+1/4), Uncontrolled (Switch condition: Loss of confidence; +1/2) (105 Active Points); Limited Power Regardless of roll, never more than 3 levels of Unluck to any one person (-1), Always On (-1/2), Limited Target Opponents (-1/4), Side Effects: Effects allies instead (Side Effect occurs when character loses confidence; -3/4), Real Cost 30

 

Two questions:

 

1. Do I really need the uncontrolled advantage? Is there some way of just putting a condition on to the side effect limitation?

 

2. Since the power is essentially undetectable do I need to by some sort of invisible power advantage?

 

Luck is normally a "whenever the guy running the game feels like rolling the dice" phenomenon. I wrote it with the Uncontrolled Advantage because you're wanting an effect that is basically all the time - not necessarily to be rolled every phase, or even every turn, but certainly more constant and reliable than Luck is by default. Therefore, I judged an Advantage was in order, and Uncontrolled seems closest to appropriate.

 

On the other hand, Luck is, if I'm not mistaken, already invisible by default, so I don't see a need for an Advantage for that.

 

I am not sure I understand the meaning of "Limited Target Opponents."

 

Always On is a Limitation only if there is some drawback to having the Power in force at all times. What's the drawback here?

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Uncontrolled Palindromedary Always On