frogboy7 Posted December 27, 2011 Report Share Posted December 27, 2011 hi im working on a conversion of a fantasy game that shall remain nameless the problem i have is i need a skill (or ability) that would allow a PC to estimate the monetary value of goods/loot/ect. like an appraisal if you will. looking over the skills in 6E1 i cant find a "preset" skill that does that. would it be a Knowledge Skill, a Power or have i just missed something? any and all help/ideas/input would be greatly appreciated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Posted December 27, 2011 Report Share Posted December 27, 2011 Re: A skill to estimate value? The closest thing in the system is Trading - being able to bargain implies you have some idea of the value of goods. I personally use Analyze:Value for this. You could use a Professional Skill, perhaps something like PS: Evaluate Treasure or PS: Appraiser. This would be cheaper than Analyze and perhaps appropriate if the Skill will be of lesser importance. PS: Merchant should definitely include an idea of the values of many goods, and PS: Thief can help guess what a fence would pay for it. PS: Adventurer could work, probably at a penalty. Lots of Skills, especially Knowledge and Professional, will give an idea of value in specialized fields. Lucius Alexander Evaluate Palindromedary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted December 27, 2011 Report Share Posted December 27, 2011 Re: A skill to estimate value? Analyse (relevant thing) is good. KS is a good complimentary skill. Trading is...yes, well, what the Palindromedary said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbywolfe Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 Re: A skill to estimate value? Alternately you could go the complicated route and build it as a power. Detect: value of object. Maybe with a RSR. Honestly, a Background or Professional Skill should cover this just fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NuSoardGraphite Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 Re: A skill to estimate value? A combination of Analyze (goods/value/treasure) and Trading should do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 Re: A skill to estimate value? It seems like a KS of the appropriate items would serve the purpose. Why does that greedy Barbarian Dwarf know the value of rare books and folios and magical artifacts, as well as gemstones and jewellery? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 Re: A skill to estimate value? It seems like a KS of the appropriate items would serve the purpose. Why does that greedy Barbarian Dwarf know the value of rare books and folios and magical artifacts' date=' as well as gemstones and jewellery?[/quote'] Who says it's a greedy barbarian Dwarf? It's true something like PS: Evaluate Treasure isn't appropriate for all characters, but it may be for some. Lucius Alexander Evaluate Palindromedary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 Re: A skill to estimate value? Who says it's a greedy barbarian Dwarf? I did, in that post you quoted. It's true something like PS: Evaluate Treasure isn't appropriate for all characters' date=' but it may be for some.[/quote'] Sure - or maybe such a character should have to purchase an array of skills to reflect his expertise in a variety of areas (maybe similar to handling animals and Survival in various environments). It depends largely on the game specifics, of course. Some may want a single skill to evaluate gems, jewellery, ceremonial armor, weapons and clothing, rare coins, historical artifacts, artwork of various kinds, tools, monster parts and dozens of other types of treasure. Others may want to focus on the character's area(s) knowledge, with a knowledge of value being part and parcel of knowledge of the objects themselves. Perhaps our PS: Treasure Evaluator knows that, if that is a genuine Grug Slugbelly painting, it's worth a small fortune, but lacks the artistic knowledge to evaluate its authenticity. Or perhaps that's all subsumed in a single skill, because we want to get past the valuation and get on with the game. Make it worth the points paid in game and all's well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 Re: A skill to estimate value? I did, in that post you quoted. Sure - or maybe such a character should have to purchase an array of skills to reflect his expertise in a variety of areas (maybe similar to handling animals and Survival in various environments). It depends largely on the game specifics, of course. Some may want a single skill to evaluate gems, jewellery, ceremonial armor, weapons and clothing, rare coins, historical artifacts, artwork of various kinds, tools, monster parts and dozens of other types of treasure. Others may want to focus on the character's area(s) knowledge, with a knowledge of value being part and parcel of knowledge of the objects themselves. Perhaps our PS: Treasure Evaluator knows that, if that is a genuine Grug Slugbelly painting, it's worth a small fortune, but lacks the artistic knowledge to evaluate its authenticity. Or perhaps that's all subsumed in a single skill, because we want to get past the valuation and get on with the game. Make it worth the points paid in game and all's well. I didn't even think of that distinction - a character may know the value of a Slugbelly but not how to identify one, or vice versa (although if he knows a Slugbelly when he sees it, he probably knows its value....) But the original poster seems to be concerned not with an individual character, but translating a Skill from another system. I'd say the simple and best answer is either Analyze: Value or PS: Appraiser or PS: Evaluate Treasure, depending on how important the Skill is likely to be. Lucius Alexander Analyze: Palindromedary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 Re: A skill to estimate value? hi im working on a conversion of a fantasy game that shall remain nameless the problem i have is i need a skill (or ability) that would allow a PC to estimate the monetary value of goods/loot/ect. like an appraisal if you will. looking over the skills in 6E1 i cant find a "preset" skill that does that. would it be a Knowledge Skill' date=' a Power or have i just missed something? any and all help/ideas/input would be greatly appreciated [/quote'] It seems like a KS of the appropriate items would serve the purpose. Why does that greedy Barbarian Dwarf know the value of rare books and folios and magical artifacts' date=' as well as gemstones and jewellery?[/quote'] I'd say Trading. PS works complimentary. I no other skill helps/would work complimentary there might be a negative modifier (for example, the inversion of the "Character has extensive knowledge of the object of the Skill Roll" Bonus from 6E1 58).That would still allow a Dwarf to evaluate smithed weapons, ore and the like without penalty or need for PS: Miner/Weaponsmith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodstone Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 Re: A skill to estimate value? Trading, with various skills related to the goods acting as complimentary skills. See Ultimate Skill p339 Not sure if it's been reprinted/updated in a source for 6E yet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsalwayssunny Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 Re: A skill to estimate value? hi im working on a conversion of a fantasy game that shall remain nameless the problem i have is i need a skill (or ability) that would allow a PC to estimate the monetary value of goods/loot/ect. like an appraisal if you will. looking over the skills in 6E1 i cant find a "preset" skill that does that. would it be a Knowledge Skill' date=' a Power or have i just missed something? any and all help/ideas/input would be greatly appreciated [/quote'] If you want realism, you'd have to have separate Knowledge Skills for each of the types of things you want to appraise. Knowing the value of a gem would do nothing to help you determine the value of a vase or a painting or a manuscript or a found sword or livestock. If you want fantasy, how about just an "Appraisal" or "Valuation" skill that works for everything? --Kap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister E Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 Re: A skill to estimate value? Lucius, I'll give you 3 magic beans for your palindromedary, right now. These beans cost me an arm & leg, each, but I'll let you have all 3 for only 1 palindromedary. Sharing makes you feel good, Lucius. With 3 magic beans, over night, you could grow enough beanstalks to feed 10,000 palindromedaries. Before you decide, hold these 3 magic beans for me while I go collect myself in another room for being so crazy as to let my fantastically valuable magic beans go for so much less than 3 good arms & 3 good legs... which I have lost forever & will never enjoy, ever again. Oh, woe is Mr. E. Only owning a palindromedary can cure my tremendous phantom limb pain. The memory of my 6 presently absent members doth torment me so. If only I knew where a little patch of earth was so that I could plant the 3 magic beans, then they would be of such wondrous use to me. Alas, I am ignorant & must sell them. Lucius, if you know where a little patch of earth is, so that you can plant the 3 magic beans, it is a miracle, & it is your destiny to sell me your palindromedary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 Re: A skill to estimate value? Trading, with various skills related to the goods acting as complimentary skills. See Ultimate Skill p339 Not sure if it's been reprinted/updated in a source for 6E yet I liked that idea, but Mr. E talked me out of it. Lucius, I'll give you 3 magic beans for your palindromedary, right now. These beans cost me an arm & leg, each, but I'll let you have all 3 for only 1 palindromedary. Sharing makes you feel good, Lucius. With 3 magic beans, over night, you could grow enough beanstalks to feed 10,000 palindromedaries. Before you decide, hold these 3 magic beans for me while I go collect myself in another room for being so crazy as to let my fantastically valuable magic beans go for so much less than 3 good arms & 3 good legs... which I have lost forever & will never enjoy, ever again. Oh, woe is Mr. E. Only owning a palindromedary can cure my tremendous phantom limb pain. The memory of my 6 presently absent members doth torment me so. If only I knew where a little patch of earth was so that I could plant the 3 magic beans, then they would be of such wondrous use to me. Alas, I am ignorant & must sell them. Lucius, if you know where a little patch of earth is, so that you can plant the 3 magic beans, it is a miracle, & it is your destiny to sell me your palindromedary. More Beans Please! If only I had a palindromedary to trade! It seems like KNOWING the value is an intelligence-based skill, but SELLING that value would be the Trading skill. Two very different items indeed. With that in mind, I'm going back to an INT-based skill. Just like KS: History could be the entire history of the world, or the much narrower History of the Egyptian Dynasties,, you can take KS: Values of Items as Values in general, or a much more specific Values of Artwork, Values of Slugbelly Artwork, etc. Or you could take a broader KS: Art (which would include values) or narrower KS: Slugbelly Art (which would also include values). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister E Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 Re: A skill to estimate value? I like Trading. Knowledge is power. I fear that the ultimate assessment skill for traders is probably a version of Inventor (based on SS: Accounting) renamed Market Research. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vondy Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 Re: A skill to estimate value? I generally use Trading as the base skill with relevant KS or PS as complimentary skills. Analyze (Value) might be another avenue. Just call it appraise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsalwayssunny Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 Re: A skill to estimate value? Wouldn't Trading be used to buy/sell/trade and get a good deal? Doesn't seem it would mean you know what something is worth, but rather how to haggle/bargain well. I would argue that you should get a negative modifier to your Trading if you have no knowledge of the merchandise. You might be one of those folks you hear about who sell a Rembrandt for $5.00 at their garage sale and thought they got a good price for it because they didn't know what it was they were selling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbywolfe Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 Re: A skill to estimate value? Wouldn't Trading be used to buy/sell/trade and get a good deal?Doesn't seem it would mean you know what something is worth' date=' but rather how to haggle/bargain well.I would argue that you should get a negative modifier to your Trading if you have no knowledge of the merchandise. You might be one of those folks you hear about who sell a Rembrandt for $5.00 at their garage sale and thought they got a good price for it because they didn't know what it was they were selling.[/quote']It seems to me to "get a good deal", which you say trading is for, would require at least a vague understanding of an item's general worth... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vondy Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 Re: A skill to estimate value? Wouldn't Trading be used to buy/sell/trade and get a good deal? Doesn't seem it would mean you know what something is worth, but rather how to haggle/bargain well. The skill description doesn't make the distinction between negotiation and appraisal. It simply says a successful roll gets you the bargain price. Nor does it say anything about negative modifiers without the requisite knowledge. Besides, its a catch-22: how do you get a good deal if you don't know what its worth? What's more, complimentary skills are supposed to give bonuses to existent skills, not function as prerequisites for their normative (non-penalized) use. You certainly can require associated background skills, but I think that's a question of design style rather than anything implied by the system itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teflon Billy Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 Re: A skill to estimate value? You could always go the route of having a simple Detect (Intrinsic Worth) tied to either sight or touch sense. Simple Detects without Analyze will give you Intensity (read Magnitude) of something, so it may be more fantastic than you might be looking for, but it'd work pretty well in a very high magic campaign. Now, the character is still going to need to haggle if they want to purchase or sell something for it's intrinsic worth, but that isn't what you were asking for originally. TB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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