Guest dan2448 Posted May 8, 2012 Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 Re: Champions Villains 3: Solo Villains Kickstarter is LIVE There were a number of folks on the CO forums who felt that the kickstarter wasn't clear enough about being a print version of a product that's already available in PDF. I'm all for clarity, but this seems like a 'bizarre' concern in this instance, to me anyway. For anyone who doesn't already own the PDF, the concern about whether it had already been released is presumably irrelevant, because they can now get the PDF via the Kickstarter for less ($25) than is currently being charged in the online store ($28.46). And for anyone who already owns that PDF, I would find it really 'weird' that they would need to rely on the Kickstarter to refresh their recollection that a PDF they already own was, indeed, previously released. This may be an observation made more for the sake of 'online conversation' in the CO fourms than one made to address a 'real' problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GestaltBennie Posted May 9, 2012 Report Share Posted May 9, 2012 Re: Champions Villains 3: Solo Villains Kickstarter is LIVE I'm all for clarity, but this seems like a 'bizarre' concern in this instance, to me anyway. For anyone who doesn't already own the PDF, the concern about whether it had already been released is presumably irrelevant, because they can now get the PDF via the Kickstarter for less ($25) than is currently being charged in the online store ($28.46). And for anyone who already owns that PDF, I would find it really 'weird' that they would need to rely on the Kickstarter to refresh their recollection that a PDF they already own was, indeed, previously released. This may be an observation made more for the sake of 'online conversation' in the CO fourms than one made to address a 'real' problem. One person having that interpretation I can probably push aside on that basis. It's a little less easy when three people report it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbywolfe Posted May 9, 2012 Report Share Posted May 9, 2012 Re: Champions Villains 3: Solo Villains Kickstarter is LIVE I think the KS page is pretty darn clear, but even if it isn't, what difference des it make whether the PDF was released already or not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dan2448 Posted May 9, 2012 Report Share Posted May 9, 2012 Re: Champions Villains 3: Solo Villains Kickstarter is LIVE One person having that interpretation I can probably push aside on that basis. It's a little less easy when three people report it. I wouldn't question at all whether a few (or many) people might 'interpret' the Kickstarter as being insufficiently clear on this point. (Watching the Kickstarter video again, I would not have known the PDF was published previously unless I'd already known that independently.) But my view is that, even if it is insufficently explicit, that's a non-issue as a practical matter. It's really a mere 'conversational gripe.' (And there's nothing wrong with that. I do that myself from time-to-time.) For anyone who hasn't already bought the PDF, whether the PDF was previously released is irrelevant, I think. Either you're interested in the topic (and may therefore want to buy the book) or you're not. And if you already own the PDF, I can't see complaining with a straight face that Kickstarter doesn't make it clear enough to you that the PDF you previously bought was, indeed, previously made available for sale. I can understand entirely if someone found the disclosure less clear than they'd prefer on this point. But the 'real' issue, I think, is whether, in fact, that's really a problem even if it's so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbywolfe Posted May 9, 2012 Report Share Posted May 9, 2012 Re: Champions Villains 3: Solo Villains Kickstarter is LIVE I've never seen a single Kickstarter where ALL the information was in the video. If you can read, it is clear. Hell, one of the reward levels is specifically for people who already purchased the PDF, how could it possibly be any clearer? Pointless complaints is one of the reasons I quit frequenting the CO forum long before I stopped playing the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawnmower Boy Posted May 9, 2012 Report Share Posted May 9, 2012 Re: Champions Villains 3: Solo Villains Kickstarter is LIVE I've never seen a single Kickstarter where ALL the information was in the video. If you can read' date=' it is clear. Hell, one of the reward levels is specifically for people who already purchased the PDF, how could it possibly be any clearer? Pointless complaints is one of the reasons I quit frequenting the CO forum long before I stopped playing the game.[/quote'] Your pathetic defence is avoiding the real issue, which I just made up in my head. .... Well, no, I'm not going to tell you what it is. Why should I do all the work? Guess. I'll tell you if you're wrong. (Possibly with Nazi-comparing.) Anyway, the point is that this Kickstarter sucks, Hero sucks, everything sucks, and It's up to you to defend the indefensible against the criticisms that I have right here in my head. .... C'mon! Guess! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted May 10, 2012 Report Share Posted May 10, 2012 Re: Champions Villains 3: Solo Villains Kickstarter is LIVE Well' date=' no, I'm not going to tell you what it is. Why should I do all the work? Guess. I'll tell you if you're wrong. (Possibly with Nazi-comparing.) Anyway, the point is that this Kickstarter sucks, Hero sucks, everything sucks, and It's up to you to defend the indefensible against the criticisms that I have right here in my head.[/quote'] Yes, the CO crowd (and STO crowd) REALLY tends to complain. The less relevant the problem and the easier to explain why it isn't, the better. They are almost as good at complaining about nothing as the average 21st milenium German. But only almost Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gojira Posted May 10, 2012 Report Share Posted May 10, 2012 Re: Champions Villains 3: Solo Villains Kickstarter is LIVE Two weeks to go, and 60% of the way towards being funded. Not bad, but would be nicer to have a bit more in the till at this point. Time for a bit of advertising? Like posting more on forums or giving an interview; free advertising. I'm sure HG would have a hard time justifying the pay-for kind. Anyone want to toss some ideas out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesG Posted May 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2012 Re: Champions Villains 3: Solo Villains Kickstarter is LIVE I can understand entirely if someone found the disclosure less clear than they'd prefer on this point. But the 'real' issue, I think, is whether, in fact, that's really a problem even if it's so. Personally I found the Kickstarter page clear enough, but I'm not a good judge since I knew what this Kickstarter was beforehand. I think the "problem" those CO posters are seeing is they were confused as to whether this was new content or merely a publication of something they already had (the PDF). Once it was made clear what the Kickstarter was for, I was sure to point out that there is a reward tier for buyers of the PDF to get the book at a discount. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesG Posted May 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2012 Re: Champions Villains 3: Solo Villains Kickstarter is LIVE Two weeks to go, and 60% of the way towards being funded. Not bad, but would be nicer to have a bit more in the till at this point. Time for a bit of advertising? Like posting more on forums or giving an interview; free advertising. I'm sure HG would have a hard time justifying the pay-for kind. Anyone want to toss some ideas out? I would suggest an email to everyone who purchased the PDF letting them know about the discount tier they are entitled to and a more general email to everyone with a Hero Games forum account letting them know about the Kickstarter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted May 10, 2012 Report Share Posted May 10, 2012 Re: Champions Villains 3: Solo Villains Kickstarter is LIVE I would suggest an email to everyone who purchased the PDF letting them know about the discount tier they are entitled to and a more general email to everyone with a Hero Games forum account letting them know about the Kickstarter. The first one get's pretty close to spam, but could be understandable. The later idea would propably be spam. Afaik I never gave my consent to be informed about Herogames Prodcuts during registration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesG Posted May 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2012 Re: Champions Villains 3: Solo Villains Kickstarter is LIVE I've been a forum member so long I have no recollection about consent or not. But my definition of spam is different than yours (or perhaps my tolerance of it is higher). To me spam is unsolicited email from an entity I have no relation to. As a member of the Hero Games forums I think it is safe to assume I have some interest in Hero Games products so I would not think twice about getting an email from them from time to time. Now if if they started sending something every week and I had not signed up for a weekly newsletter I can see that as getting spam-like. YMMV of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted May 10, 2012 Report Share Posted May 10, 2012 Re: Champions Villains 3: Solo Villains Kickstarter is LIVE I've been a forum member so long I have no recollection about consent or not. But my definition of spam is different than yours (or perhaps my tolerance of it is higher). To me spam is unsolicited email from an entity I have no relation to. As a member of the Hero Games forums I think it is safe to assume I have some interest in Hero Games products so I would not think twice about getting an email from them from time to time. Now if if they started sending something every week and I had not signed up for a weekly newsletter I can see that as getting spam-like. YMMV of course. I am a application developer, so I have to keep the law side in mind. The E-mail was given primarily for the purpose of of passwort recovery and there is no option to allow you to send me information about Hero Products. But there is the option to recieve E-Mail's in case Notification and Private Messages arrive. So dropping a Notification to everyone and hoping that not many have disabeled the default settings might work. Maybe it is an issue, maybe it isn't. I merely pointed out that there might be an issue with just using the E-Mail that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesG Posted May 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2012 Re: Champions Villains 3: Solo Villains Kickstarter is LIVE Yeah, I'm not a lawyer so I have no idea if a forum owner could get in trouble for sending an email to the forum members. I agree Jason should look into the legality before trying it (if he even wants to try it). Even if it is "legal" it might not be worth the trouble since some people are very pissy about anything that might possibly be considered spam. I still think it might be a great way to reach former Hero gamers who may have drifted a away from the game but might be willing to throw a few bucks at the Kickstarter due to fond memories. But yeah, maybe it is more trouble than it is worth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gojira Posted May 17, 2012 Report Share Posted May 17, 2012 Re: Champions Villains 3: Solo Villains Kickstarter is LIVE One week and almost $3000 to go. It's going to be a nail biter methinks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dan2448 Posted May 18, 2012 Report Share Posted May 18, 2012 Re: Champions Villains 3: Solo Villains Kickstarter is LIVE I made a pledge early on and am an enthusiastic backer of this project (in significant part because I already own the other two volumes and because I am a recalcitrant luddite who simply won't buy PDFs). That being said, I am surprised that it has been a little bit of a struggle to raise the $14K to fund this project. Maybe that's because the PDF was previously released. Or maybe it's because there isn't a $2K option offered in this kickstarter, where Steve Long will fly out and run a game for someone. But I'm starting to fear it's really because there simply aren't 200-250 people out there right now who want to fund ongoing Champions publications in this way. And the implications of that, if true, do not bode well for the future.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Archer Posted May 18, 2012 Report Share Posted May 18, 2012 Re: Champions Villains 3: Solo Villains Kickstarter is LIVE One week and almost $3000 to go. It's going to be a nail biter methinks. I posted similar on another thread. I think it will be. 6 days to go and a bit under $2500 needed. 142 pledges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GestaltBennie Posted May 18, 2012 Report Share Posted May 18, 2012 Re: Champions Villains 3: Solo Villains Kickstarter is LIVE Yes, the CO crowd (and STO crowd) REALLY tends to complain. The less relevant the problem and the easier to explain why it isn't, the better. They are almost as good at complaining about nothing as the average 21st milenium German. But only almost I've been involved with HERO on the Internet for over twenty years. We have no right to be pointing fingers at *anyone*. In any case, if we can keep the momentum and have a good surge in the last couple of days, the kickstarter should be fine. Keeping my fingers crossed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gojira Posted May 19, 2012 Report Share Posted May 19, 2012 Re: Champions Villains 3: Solo Villains Kickstarter is LIVE $1,900 remaining. Cross all fingers and toes now. (There's two $250 dollar pledges now; I don't recall if those are new, but I think they are. Muchas gras to whoever is being very generous.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted May 21, 2012 Report Share Posted May 21, 2012 Re: Champions Villains 3: Solo Villains Kickstarter is LIVE Finnaly got my Amazon to work for me, placed a $25, come on everyone, do what you can, just a little more than a grand to go... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gojira Posted May 22, 2012 Report Share Posted May 22, 2012 Re: Champions Villains 3: Solo Villains Kickstarter is LIVE Someone pledged at the $800 level. It's funded! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted May 22, 2012 Report Share Posted May 22, 2012 Re: Champions Villains 3: Solo Villains Kickstarter is LIVE Someone pledged at the $800 level. It's funded! God bless whoever did that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dan2448 Posted May 22, 2012 Report Share Posted May 22, 2012 Re: Champions Villains 3: Solo Villains Kickstarter is LIVE I've been asking myself for the last few minutes why I am so happy that this Kickstarter has now succeeded. Is it because I already bought the first two volumes and want to complete the three volume set? Maybe that's part of it. But I suspect the real reason goes back to my original purchase of the 2e boxed set from a game store in the early 1980s as a teenager. It's the same reason I get a twinge of excitement when I buy Silly Putty for my 5 year old daughter in the grocery store at Easter every year, and when I stand in line to buy a ticket for the newest James Bond movie. Nothing validates nostalgia like continued life..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheQuestionMan Posted May 22, 2012 Report Share Posted May 22, 2012 Re: Champions Villains 3: Solo Villains Kickstarter is LIVE Booyah! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted May 22, 2012 Report Share Posted May 22, 2012 Re: Champions Villains 3: Solo Villains Kickstarter is LIVE Somebody should make a "it's over 14 thousand" poster. It's nice that it worked out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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