A Weapon that creates wounds that can only be healed by a particular method.

[BhelliomRahl]

Good day.

 

Am currently running a fantasy game in which the fantasy creatures have the ability to magically regenerate their wounds. Their is an order which hunts these monsters with special weapons which negate their regenerative and natural healing abilities, also always cause injury (Penetrating).

 

How to build these:

My thought was to link a Drain regeneration to a Hand Killing Attack with a long fade rate. But how to reduce the rate of natural healing. If I Drain REC this will effect stun as well, could I apply a limitation; effects REC of Body only.

 

What are peoples thoughts?

[Christopher]

Re: A Weapon that creates wounds that can only be healed by a particular method.

 

We had a discussion of similar type some time ago, but I can't find it right now.

 

Imho the best way is to built this not as a feature of the Attack. It is to make it simply a Campaign Rule that certain Monsters have to take Limitations/Complications on thier super-healing powers.

 

There are multiple ways to build superregeneration:

Just "Regeneration". It get's ineffective/overpriced in high amounts hower.

"Resistant Protection, does not stops first body of killing damage" plus a little "Regeneration".

Other defense Powers plus a little regeneration.

 

A Werewolf for example would have to take (by campaign rule) "Not against Silver Weapons" on his Resistant Protection and/or Regeneration. A Fae would propably have to take "not against Cold Iron". A Demon "not agaisnt Holy Weapons". So they regenerate any damage, except those few types you determine.

 

 

To make a weapon use a certain special effect, there are a few ways:

1. A weapon defined that way. Note that it would count as it's normal special effect (a Silver Sword would be a Silver Weapon, not a Sword/Sharp Weapon for purpose of SFX). A Minor Transform can do this on the fly (if you need something like a "Bless" spell).

2. Variable Special Effect from the core books. Usually the +1/4 Advantage should be enough. You can choose with each attack what Special effect to use.

3. APG I 138, Multiple Special Effects:

Between +1/4 and +3/4 per Special effect. No mater your knowledge of the targets weaknesses, the attack counts as the worst possible SFX (from the ones you paid for) after limited Defenses and Vulnerabilities.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: A Weapon that creates wounds that can only be healed by a particular method.

 

Stepping further out on a limb, and assuming it is the attacker who must overcome the rapid healing of the defender, one approach would be Suppression of the target's healing abilities as you suggest. You could make the attack Constant and Uncontrolled , limiting these advantages that additional "attacks" apply only when, and to the extent, damage from the initial attack is healed. So, if the initial attack inflicts 7 BOD, and the Troll regenerates 3, he would take damage again until the 3 BOD has been removed again, but he could not take 4 BOD. Once priced out, handwave the effect that it offsets the creature's healing.

 

Presumably, there is some way to reverse this and allow the creature to eventually heal its wounds, which would be the condition that ends the uncontrolled attacks.

 

That said, if the intent is that this be a common campaign feature, I'm more inclined to limit the creature's healing abilities than to require a complex mechanic to prevent its healing.

[ghost-angel]

Re: A Weapon that creates wounds that can only be healed by a particular method.

 

If it's always the same material, and is a campaign ground rule - then add a Complication to all monsters (or those who are affected by this material) - Physical Complication: Cannot Heal/Regenerate Wounds Made By X-Material Magically.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: A Weapon that creates wounds that can only be healed by a particular method.

 

You design this sort of flaw into the characters that have the flaw.

 

For instance, if building a Werewolf you don't model their vulnerability to silver by making all silver things buy a special ability to harm Werewolves. You encapsulate that concept into the Werewolf build itself.

[Sean Waters]

Re: A Weapon that creates wounds that can only be healed by a particular method.

 

I would definitely set it up when you set up the campaign...but if you did not do that and do not want to make the change now, you could try linking a Transform to the basic attack. The transform transforms the target into a target with lower Body and/or changes the way its regeneration works so that it does not work against attacks from this weapon. You can not kill something with Transform as such, but you can change it into something that is easier to kill.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: A Weapon that creates wounds that can only be healed by a particular method.

 

Actually, what about Transform to simply add the limitation/complication that BOD damage from this type of weapon does not regenerate and/or heal naturally?

[Christopher]

Re: A Weapon that creates wounds that can only be healed by a particular method.

 

Actually' date=' what about Transform to simply add the limitation/complication that BOD damage from this type of weapon does not regenerate and/or heal naturally?[/quote']

I would work, propably with a Major Transform.

While Minor can give a -1/2, this should never lead to totally disablign the power (wich it would in effect, when you hit him with the kind of attack you just took out).

 

The real problem with most builts is, that you have to affect multiple game elements:

Resistant Protection

Regeneration

maybe Damage reduction and Negation.

Posibly RECovery.

 

Those all could be power used to write up "superhealing".

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: A Weapon that creates wounds that can only be healed by a particular method.

 

That makes Transform an even better option - "to same being with limitation on all Superhealing abilities that they don't work against damage caused by X".

 

Minor Transform would only cover 10 points of Complications, in addition to the Limitations issue,so Major (which can handle 20 points) would seem the most appropriate level. That's 10 points per 1d6. It would be linked to the normal power, likely 0 END and maybe a good candidate for Damage over Time to quickly build up the full Transform. Say 1d6 Transform, DoT 12 increments, 1 per segment - that would be +4 1/2, 0 END makes it +5 so 60 AP, but it should shut down the healing factor over the course of a turn (12d6). Seems pretty expensive for the utility, but it will be Linked to another attack and could have some extra limitations. Assuming the healing it shuts down is common in the game, it may not be overpriced in the circumstances.

[Lucius]

Re: A Weapon that creates wounds that can only be healed by a particular method.

 

Monster Hunter's Sword: (Total: 97 Active Cost, 25 Real Cost)

Killing Attack - Hand-To-Hand 2d6-1, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Affects Desolidified Any form of Desolidification (+1/2) (50 Active Points); OAF (-1), STR Minimum 9-13 (-1/2), -2 Decreased STUN Multiplier (-1/2), Required Hands One-And-A-Half-Handed (-1/4) (Real Cost: 15)

plus

Drain BODY 1d6, Attack Versus Alternate Defense (See Notes; All Or Nothing; +0), Affects Desolidified Any form of Desolidification (+1/2), Expanded Effect (x2 Characteristics or Powers simultaneously) (BOD + Regen or Heal, only to prevent target from regaining Drained points of BOD; +1/2), Delayed Return Rate (points return at the rate of 5 per Month; +2 3/4) (47 Active Points); OAF (-1), Linked (Killing Attack - Hand-To-Hand; Lesser Power can only be used when character uses greater Power at full value; -3/4), No Range (-1/2), STR Minimum 9-13 (-1/2), Conditional Power Only effects "monsters" (-1/2), Required Hands One-And-A-Half-Handed (-1/4), Limited Power Can be undone by "a particular method" (-1/4) (Real Cost: 10)

 

In addition to regular damage, this sword Drains 1d3 BOD (note: BOD is a Defensive Characteristic so Drains are halved, thus 1d3 rather than 1d6) and the same in Active Points from any Power that has the capacity to replace those points any faster than the rate of 5/month. Unfortunately it costs an extra 5 END over the STR used, but no one said hunting monsters was easy.

 

What the defense is, what constitues a "monster" and what the "particular method" is are up to the Game Operations Director.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary says that if Draining those BOD points for a month isn't long enough, and it's taking you longer than that to track the beast down and finish it, you should turn in your monster hunter's license.

[Brother Jim]

Re: A Weapon that creates wounds that can only be healed by a particular method.

 

It just seems easier to build the weakness into the monster. This also allows for special monsters that don't have that weakness. Most Fae are effected by Cold Iron, but in the lore there were types that were not. Most spirits are barred from Holy Ground, but some can enter without being damaged (most of those aren't Evil though).

[BhelliomRahl]

Re: A Weapon that creates wounds that can only be healed by a particular method.

 

In the game I have used Vulnerabilities for apporopiate creatures; Werefolk - Silver, Vampires - Direct Sunlight, etc.

The key thing about the weapons is thats its a magic enchantment placed upon the weapons during Forging, the material is not so important. The key aspect that the players might learn to their detriment is that the magical enchantment on the weapons is not selective, it effects any being hit with the weapons (Secret of the Order). It bypasses if only a little all defensives (Penetrating - No creature/item grants the advantage inpenetrable). The most serious effect is that the wounds caused by it do not heal through natural or innate regeneration abilities(Werefolk have Vulnerability, Susceptibility and Regeneration Prevented by Silver), only certain magical healing can heal the injury or a significant amount of time for natural healing (Decades)

As every being can be effected by this ability its not a vulnerability.

I like the idea of using Transform - Major - Targets Body is reduced by an ammount equal to damage, healed by Magic or 1yrs time. Or might be better to use Drain with a fade rate of 1 year, although this would cause addition damage, using transform may still be the better option.

 

The Swords are part of the campaign, the group has been hired by the Order to recover 20 swords which have been stolen.

 

All the ideas are interesting, would be interested in what you have with this additional information.

[Christopher]

Re: A Weapon that creates wounds that can only be healed by a particular method.

 

In the game I have used Vulnerabilities for apporopiate creatures; Werefolk - Silver, Vampires - Direct Sunlight, etc.

The key thing about the weapons is thats its a magic enchantment placed upon the weapons during Forging, the material is not so important. The key aspect that the players might learn to their detriment is that the magical enchantment on the weapons is not selective, it effects any being hit with the weapons (Secret of the Order). It bypasses if only a little all defensives (Penetrating - No creature/item grants the advantage inpenetrable). The most serious effect is that the wounds caused by it do not heal through natural or innate regeneration abilities(Werefolk have Vulnerability, Susceptibility and Regeneration Prevented by Silver), only certain magical healing can heal the injury or a significant amount of time for natural healing (Decades)

As every being can be effected by this ability its not a vulnerability.

I like the idea of using Transform - Major - Targets Body is reduced by an ammount equal to damage, healed by Magic or 1yrs time. Or might be better to use Drain with a fade rate of 1 year, although this would cause addition damage, using transform may still be the better option.

 

The Swords are part of the campaign, the group has been hired by the Order to recover 20 swords which have been stolen.

Then I still think it is easier to just declare that every being in the campaign has that weakness/limits on his healign powers as campaign rule, and just add a +1/4 "Additional SFX" to the weapon so it can use that Everyman Complication.

[Ninja-Bear]

Re: A Weapon that creates wounds that can only be healed by a particular method.

 

Juat a quick thought. While I do like the idea of just making it a campaign modifier, how many ghost cutting swords are there with affects desolid adavantage? I've never seen a ghost written up as complication takes damage from x. Interesting.

[Christopher]

Re: A Weapon that creates wounds that can only be healed by a particular method.

 

Juat a quick thought. While I do like the idea of just making it a campaign modifier' date=' how many ghost cutting swords are there with affects desolid adavantage? I've never seen a ghost written up as complication takes damage from x. Interesting.[/quote']

Affects Desolid is seperate.

Of course you can just say that the Limitation also applies to every desolid in the campaign.

And vulnerabilities/Succeptibilities are never covered by Desolid anyway.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: A Weapon that creates wounds that can only be healed by a particular method.

 

Affects Desolid is seperate.

Of course you can just say that the Limitation also applies to every desolid in the campaign.

And vulnerabilities/Succeptibilities are never covered by Desolid anyway.

 

6e V1 refers to dependencies and susceptibilities not being mitigated by Desolidification. It says nothing about Vulnerabilities. While it would seem reasonable to reassess how common the Vulnerability is for a character who is often Desolid, the attack to which he is vulnerable needs to hit before it can inflict damage.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: A Weapon that creates wounds that can only be healed by a particular method.

 

In the game I have used Vulnerabilities for apporopiate creatures; Werefolk - Silver, Vampires - Direct Sunlight, etc.

The key thing about the weapons is thats its a magic enchantment placed upon the weapons during Forging, the material is not so important. The key aspect that the players might learn to their detriment is that the magical enchantment on the weapons is not selective, it effects any being hit with the weapons (Secret of the Order). It bypasses if only a little all defensives (Penetrating - No creature/item grants the advantage inpenetrable). The most serious effect is that the wounds caused by it do not heal through natural or innate regeneration abilities(Werefolk have Vulnerability, Susceptibility and Regeneration Prevented by Silver), only certain magical healing can heal the injury or a significant amount of time for natural healing (Decades)

As every being can be effected by this ability its not a vulnerability.

 

Does "every being" include mundane humans?

 

In any case, while you could certainly make this a campaign standard, especially as it appears this is not an ability any character would purchase directly, you clearly want to define a mechanic, so saying "just make it a campaign standard" doesn't really resolve the issue.

 

I like the idea of using Transform - Major - Targets Body is reduced by an ammount equal to damage' date=' healed by Magic or 1yrs time. Or might be better to use Drain with a fade rate of 1 year, although this would cause addition damage, using transform may still be the better option.[/quote']

 

I think Transform is the most viable approach. No matter how long the fade rate on a Drain, Healing and Regeneration still restore the lost BOD. The problem with Transform is that it is either quite expensive or quite slow. Expensive may not be a big deal, if the only way this ability can be accessed is through the campaign-specific artifacts you mention. Even if it can be purchased, it may be a good thing that it's very expensive - it's very powerful!

[LegionZero]

Re: A Weapon that creates wounds that can only be healed by a particular method.

 

First, let me say I've never even seen a 6th Ed book, so I'm speaking from the 5th Ed perspective: Since it is a property of the weapon, and not the Regen's inability, I fall on the side of it being an addition to the weapon itself, not the Regen (unless it's because the weapon is made of a certain substance - like silver, cold iron, some rare mineral, etc.).

 

That being said, Transform seems a bit clunky and like we're trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. Why not just create a campaign-specific Advantage to add the weapon (value dependent on the prevalence of Regen and how difficult it is to get it healed) that states, "Damage Cannot be Healed by Regeneration" or a statement of what exact method must be used to heal it? I'd say look at "Cannot Be Dispelled" as an example.

 

Just my two cents.

[Ninja-Bear]

Re: A Weapon that creates wounds that can only be healed by a particular method.

 

Back to the original question, can you just build a drain on REC that only affects the damage done by the weapon? Would this be easier?

[bigbywolfe]

Re: A Weapon that creates wounds that can only be healed by a particular method.

 

Back to the original question' date=' can you just build a drain on REC that only affects the damage done by the weapon? Would this be easier?[/quote']

The Drained REC could still be Healed. The Transform route requires another Transform or a lot of time to undo it.

[Christopher]

Re: A Weapon that creates wounds that can only be healed by a particular method.

 

Back to the original question' date=' can you just build a drain on REC that only affects the damage done by the weapon? Would this be easier?[/quote']

The problem with anything but a Campaign rule is, there will always be somethign uncovered.

 

Draining Rec, leves Healign Uncovered.

Draining Body can still be healed by Healing/Regeneration

A Transform can be negated with a "counter transform".

 

Both Drain and Transform will have problems with Power Defense.

[Lucius]

Re: A Weapon that creates wounds that can only be healed by a particular method.

 

6e V1 refers to dependencies and susceptibilities not being mitigated by Desolidification. It says nothing about Vulnerabilities. While it would seem reasonable to reassess how common the Vulnerability is for a character who is often Desolid' date=' the attack to which he is vulnerable needs to hit before it can inflict damage.[/quote']

 

I concede your point but question the reasoning. Desolidification doesn't make a character impossible to hit, it makes the character impossible to damage or effect.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary questions my nitpicking

[Lucius]

Re: A Weapon that creates wounds that can only be healed by a particular method.

 

In the game I have used Vulnerabilities for apporopiate creatures; Werefolk - Silver, Vampires - Direct Sunlight, etc.

The key thing about the weapons is thats its a magic enchantment placed upon the weapons during Forging, the material is not so important. The key aspect that the players might learn to their detriment is that the magical enchantment on the weapons is not selective, it effects any being hit with the weapons (Secret of the Order). It bypasses if only a little all defensives (Penetrating - No creature/item grants the advantage inpenetrable). The most serious effect is that the wounds caused by it do not heal through natural or innate regeneration abilities(Werefolk have Vulnerability, Susceptibility and Regeneration Prevented by Silver), only certain magical healing can heal the injury or a significant amount of time for natural healing (Decades)

As every being can be effected by this ability its not a vulnerability.

I like the idea of using Transform - Major - Targets Body is reduced by an ammount equal to damage, healed by Magic or 1yrs time. Or might be better to use Drain with a fade rate of 1 year, although this would cause addition damage, using transform may still be the better option.

 

The Swords are part of the campaign, the group has been hired by the Order to recover 20 swords which have been stolen.

 

All the ideas are interesting, would be interested in what you have with this additional information.

 

 

At least 20? And how many of these ultrapowerful artifacts are running around loose in your campaign world?

 

By the way, why does an Order of Fearless Monster Hunters need to hire outside adventurers, as opposed to sending their own members on their own quests? Is it that aside from the swords they're not very effective? That would explain how someone managed to swipe their whole armory.

 

Anyway, take a look at this write up.

 

 

Monster Hunter's Sword: (Total: 201 Active Cost, 52 Real Cost)

Drain BODY 1d6, Affects Desolidified Any form of Desolidification (+1/2), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Attack Versus Alternate Defense (See Notes; All Or Nothing; +1), Delayed Return Rate (points return at the rate of 5 per Year; +3 1/4) (62 Active Points); OAF (-1), No Range (-1/2), STR Minimum 9-13 (-1/2), Required Hands One-And-A-Half-Handed (-1/4), Limited Power Can be undone by "particular method" (-1/4) (Real Cost: 18)

plus

Hand-To-Hand Attack +4d6, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (30 Active Points); OAF (-1), Linked (Monster Hunter's Sword; Lesser Power can only be used when character uses greater Power at full value; -3/4), STR Minimum 9-13 (-1/2), Hand-To-Hand Attack (-1/4), Required Hands One-And-A-Half-Handed (-1/4) (Real Cost: 8)

plus

Change Environment (-10 to CON Roll, Long-Lasting Permanent), Difficult To Dispel (x2 Active Points; +1/4) (57 Active Points); OAF (-1), No Range (-1/2), Linked (Monster Hunter's Sword; -1/2) (Real Cost: 19)

plus

Drain BODY 1d6, Affects Desolidified Any form of Desolidification (+1/2), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Delayed Return Rate (points return at the rate of 5 per Year; +3 1/4) (52 Active Points); Damage Over Time, Target's defenses only apply once, Lock out (cannot be applied multiple times) (65-128 damage increments, damage occurs every 1 Year, -4), OAF (-1), No Range (-1/2), STR Minimum 9-13 (-1/2), Required Hands One-And-A-Half-Handed (-1/4), Limited Power Can be undone by "particular method" (-1/4) (Real Cost: 7)

 

 

Drain BOD: is vs Alternate Defense, so Power Def is no problem. Defense is being an Initiated member of the Order. This is much more expensive than the previous version where I assumed defense would be "not a monster" or something. Still does only 1-3 pts, but there is effectively no defense and the points dont heal.

 

Hand to Hand Attack: seems odd for a sword to not do some STUN, so I threw this in.

 

Change Environment: I was at first thinking of using the Drain to also Drain Regeneration, Healing, etc. but that wouldn't stop some other monster with a healing spell from coming along next week and helping the victim out. This imposes a CON roll at -10 to benefit from any such healing. But I'm starting to think that maybe Transform really is the way to go here.

 

Drain with Continuing Damage: This is already a nasty weapon what with the lingering unhealable wound schtick, and it started to remind me of the weapon the Ringwraiths used on Frodo. If I have a blank check on points to spend, why not give the victim a painful reminder every time the anniversary of the battle rolls around? This one does go against Power Defense, but the defense only counts once; on the other hand, a given victim can only suffer from one of these at a time. So if you want to hit that dragon or vampire with it again, you have to pass down in family lore, along with the sword, instructions for your great grandchild to track the monster down again when a century has passed and the accursed wound finally heals.

 

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Riding a Palindromedary counts as a defense

[Ninja-Bear]

Re: A Weapon that creates wounds that can only be healed by a particular method.

 

The problem with anything but a Campaign rule is, there will always be somethign uncovered.

 

Draining Rec, leves Healign Uncovered.

Draining Body can still be healed by Healing/Regeneration

A Transform can be negated with a "counter transform".

 

Both Drain and Transform will have problems with Power Defense.

 

What do mean by uncovered? And while probably true, remember there's no absolute in Hero system.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: A Weapon that creates wounds that can only be healed by a particular method.

 

I concede your point but question the reasoning. Desolidification doesn't make a character impossible to hit' date=' it makes the character impossible to damage or effect.[/quote']

 

I think it can be interpreted either way. The attack has no effect. An attack that misses has no effect, and an attack that does not get past the target's defenses has no effect. Either way, a Desoloid character Vulnerable to fire powers is unaffected by a flameblast while he is Desolid.