quozaxx Posted August 8, 2012 Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 Quick question: I looked over the book and I don't see anything preventing a dodge to a mental power. Am I overlooking it, or can you use a simple Dodge maneuver to dodge a mental power? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Hiemforth Posted August 8, 2012 Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 Re: Dodging a Mental Power You can Dodge, but since it only increases your DCV (not your DMCV), it doesn't really do anything useful against a Mental Power. HERO System Advanced Players Guide II contains expanded rules on Mental Combat, including Mental Power versions of various Combat Maneuvers and such... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted August 8, 2012 Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 Re: Dodging a Mental Power Accordign to APG II 71, the following Maneuvers work with Mental powers: Coordianted Attacks - can even be combined with non-mental attacks. Multiple attack bonus may not apply, or seperately for mental and non-mental powers. Use ego instead of dex if no teamwork skill present. Spreading - at GM-option Brace - at GM Option - if the Mental Power suffers Range modifiers in the first place Cover - but the target might not be able to "see" it is being covered Haymaker Multiple Attack - might negatively affect both kinds of CV, see 6E2 Set - provides OMCV in this case Snap Shot - GM-option Strafe - but penalties affect normal and mental CV's full. APG I 73 has a complete set of "Mental Combat Maneuvers". Nothing really similar to the default dodge there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beazulbob Posted August 9, 2012 Report Share Posted August 9, 2012 Re: Dodging a Mental Power While the rules don't come out and say you can, I'd allow it. Mental powers are powerful enough without some sort of ability to defend yourself. You can haymaker with mind control, so why not dodge. Dodge specifies that it works for DCV, but I think that is more of a legacy issue - the concept wasn't there yet. EB wasn't able to by haymakered originally, either. While this interpretation works against us in the Sentries game, I'd allow him to mental dodge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted August 9, 2012 Report Share Posted August 9, 2012 Re: Dodging a Mental Power While the rules don't come out and say you can' date=' I'd allow it. Mental powers are powerful enough without some sort of ability to defend yourself. You can haymaker with mind control, so why not dodge. Dodge specifies that it works for DCV, but I think that is more of a legacy issue - the concept wasn't there yet. EB wasn't able to by haymakered originally, either. While this interpretation works against us in the Sentries game, I'd allow him to mental dodge.[/quote'] A general Rule about all combat modifiers - negative as well as positive - is: "Unless specifically noted, these modifiers do not affect MCV's". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Hiemforth Posted August 9, 2012 Report Share Posted August 9, 2012 Re: Dodging a Mental Power Dodge specifies that it works for DCV' date=' but I think that is more of a legacy issue - the concept wasn't there yet.[/quote'] Sure it was. There have been Mental Powers and mental Combat Values going all the way back to first edition; they just calculated them differently then and called them something different. And the standard Dodge Combat Maneuver has never affected those Combat Values (formerly (D)ECV, now DMCV). By all means, you can allow it if you want. Just commenting on the RAW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
massey Posted August 9, 2012 Report Share Posted August 9, 2012 Re: Dodging a Mental Power You can Dodge, but since it only increases your DCV (not your DMCV), it doesn't really do anything useful against a Mental Power. Sure it does. It aborts your action. Oh wait... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozymandias Posted August 9, 2012 Report Share Posted August 9, 2012 Re: Dodging a Mental Power Though this makes me wonder if you could dive for cover against a mental power. It would probably have to be an obvious mental power, which would be rather uncommon, but I could see someone notice an someone's activating a mental power (eyes go white/aura/whatever), and tumble behind something that blocks line of sight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Hiemforth Posted August 9, 2012 Report Share Posted August 9, 2012 Re: Dodging a Mental Power Though this makes me wonder if you could dive for cover against a mental power. It would probably have to be an obvious mental power' date=' which would be rather uncommon, but I could see someone notice an someone's activating a mental power (eyes go white/aura/whatever), and tumble behind something that blocks line of sight.[/quote'] As a GM, I'd personally allow it if, as you say, the target could get behind actual cover that would prevent Line of Sight. But I wouldn't have just physically moving cause the attack to automatically miss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. MID-Nite Posted August 9, 2012 Report Share Posted August 9, 2012 Re: Dodging a Mental Power Generally...I wouldn't allow it...as it doesn't happen in the comics. I might let someone with some kind of mental training...make an attempt at "blocking" the attack perhaps(through willpower, meditation, whatever) but that's probably as far as I would go. Most characters are supposed to be vulnerable to those types of powers....for those who aren't..we have Mental Defense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BNakagawa Posted August 10, 2012 Report Share Posted August 10, 2012 Re: Dodging a Mental Power I've seen people dodge when attacked by mind control, just to deny their action to the controller... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Hiemforth Posted August 10, 2012 Report Share Posted August 10, 2012 Re: Dodging a Mental Power I've seen people dodge when attacked by mind control' date=' just to deny their action to the controller...[/quote'] As a GM, while I'd of course allow that if they had a saved Action, I don't think I'd allow them to Abort to it. If they're doing it for that purpose, it's no longer intended as a "defensive action." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phydaux Posted August 16, 2012 Report Share Posted August 16, 2012 Re: Dodging a Mental Power Quick question: I looked over the book and I don't see anything preventing a dodge to a mental power. Am I overlooking it' date=' or can you use a simple Dodge maneuver to dodge a mental power?[/quote'] As a GM I think I'd allow it in the case of Ego Blast. The character is aborting his next action phase in order to "martial and focus his prodigious mental defenses." It's very "in genera." And it plays out very similar to a successful Ego Attack that maxes the character's Con. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esampson Posted August 16, 2012 Report Share Posted August 16, 2012 Re: Dodging a Mental Power My personal feeling is that I probably wouldn't allow a normal person to dodge a mental power. I might be convinced to allow a normal person to try a block to simulate marshaling will to resist a mental power but dodges have always felt to me that they are a bit more about getting out of the way and I can't see a normal person knowing how to do that. Now that said, I keep tossing out the word 'normal'. My feeling is that if you want a world in which people can be trained in more active psychic defenses than the Mental Defense power then simply make up a set of 'Psychic Arts' maneuvers (Psychic Block, Psychic Evade, Psychic Strike, etc.) that function similarly to the standard Martial Arts maneuvers but which are for mental combat (with the exception that while standard Martial Arts moves do damage based on Strength a Psychic Arts move doesn't get any dice for Ego, only for whatever powers are purchased). Would your campaign be 'Rules As Written'? Definitely not, but I think you would definitely be operating in a 'Rules As Intended' world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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