Stunning Power

[MistWing]

I was reading though one of the 'Powers' books (either V5 or V6, don't recall) and I came across a Killing Attack power defined at 'Teleporting organs out of your target' and I thought of a variant. The basic idea was that it would be an ‘all or nothing’ Killing Attack, either you kill the target or nothing happens. However, if you don’t kill the target, then the target is Stunned. The basic idea is, imagine someone just tried to teleport an organ out of your body and failed… but you felt it. Failing to teleport the heart might feel like an almost heart attack; the lungs… can’t breath for a second; etc.

 

Anyway, what I was wondering is how would I make a Stunning attack. My immediate thought was to make a second attack with a limitation. The drawbacks to that are; first, I don’t know what the limitation would be; and second, keeping the cost reasonable (I figure the overall cost should be close to a similar Killing Attack but without the ‘all or nothing’ limitation)

 

I would appreciate any suggestions

MistWing SilverTail

[Ockham's Spoon]

Re: Stunning Power

 

To kill someone outright, you are going to need at least a 6d6 RKA to do the average 20 BDY it would take to instantly kill a normal person. Now just make the "all-or-nothing" apply only to the BDY damage, not the STN. Even on a poor roll of 15 BDY and 15 STN, that is enough to stun a normal person.

 

If you want it to work against higher powered foes, add +1 STN Multiplier. Now you should be able to stun an average person even if you roll almost all 1's, and on an average roll you will do 63 STN which will KO a lot of opponents outright.

 

The other question in my mind is should resistant PD or ED work against this attack? I don't really think so, but it depends on how you want to define the sfx of the teleport. Anyway, you might need to add Attack Vs. Alternate Defense to the power too, which means you also need AVAD attack Does Body (+1).

 

Even without AVAD and Does BDY, this is still expensive; the base power costs 90 points, so there is no way this will have a "reasonable" cost unless you stack on the limitations (or the GM somehow lets you have a big enough Multipower to pull this off).

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Stunning Power

 

re: when stunning is the primary goal

 

see this old 5e specific post:

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php/24529-A-stunning-attack?p=521268#post521268

 

Assuming 60 active points:

Suppress 12d6 vs. Stun, As soon as you stop paying END the target recovers ALL Suppressed Stun as well as END lost due to being Knocked Out (-0) [6 End]

 

This is not abusive IMO and it is functionally just like an AVLD vs. Power Defense that averages 42 Stun. A Stun only attack would cost the same but has to overcome the normaly higher PD/ED defenses without application of NND or ALVD.

 

here is the FAQ information:

 

Q: What happens to a character who is Drained/Suppressed/Transferred to 0 STUN?

 

A: A character Drained/Transferred/Suppressed to 0 STUN or below is Knocked Out. His non-Persistent Powers stop working at the end of the Segment, and his END drops to 0.

 

He only regains Drained/Transferred STUN at the rate bought for the power (he doesn’t take Recoveries or apply his REC, in other words). He regains END at the same rate.

He only regains Suppressed STUN when the attacker stops maintaining the Suppress, but at that point regains all of it, and all of his END, instantly.

[Xavier Onassiss]

Re: Stunning Power

 

In 6E there's a Stunning option on Change Environment. So you could link a CE power to the attack for the Stunning effect.

[tombrown803]

Re: Stunning Power

 

How about just build a Killing Attack with a limitation that the BODY only applies if it is enough to kill the target? If the attack is not an instant kill the target will still suffer the STUN damage of the attack.

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Stunning Power

 

In 6E there's a Stunning option on Change Environment. So you could link a CE power to the attack for the Stunning effect.

What does that cost? I don't remember that off hand and all I have at work is a PDF of Champions Complete, and that does not list a "Stunning option" unless you are referring to the 1 point of damage per 5 points spent.

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Stunning Power

 

How about just build a Killing Attack with a limitation that the BODY only applies if it is enough to kill the target? If the attack is not an instant kill the target will still suffer the STUN damage of the attack.

Simple and sounds about right. Repped. Now, what do you think the Limitation should be worth?

[Armitage]

Re: Stunning Power

 

Simple and sounds about right. Repped. Now' date=' what do you think the Limitation should be worth?[/quote']

 

I always considered using the All or Nothing (-1/2) Limitation from Transform.

It's been stated in the past that Transform is priced similarly to Killing Attack because functionally, there's not much difference between rolling twice someone's BODY and killing them and rolling twice someone's BODY and turning them into a potted plant.

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Stunning Power

 

I always considered using the All or Nothing (-1/2) Limitation from Transform.

It's been stated in the past that Transform is priced similarly to Killing Attack because functionally, there's not much difference between rolling twice someone's BODY and killing them and rolling twice someone's BODY and turning them into a potted plant.

True, but the All or Nothing aspect of the Limitation only applies to the Body, not the Stun of the attack. Maybe drop the Lim to -1/4?

[psyber624]

Re: Stunning Power

 

What does that cost? I don't remember that off hand and all I have at work is a PDF of Champions Complete' date=' and that does not list a "Stunning option" unless you are referring to the 1 point of damage per 5 points spent.[/quote']

 

Its from APG1, it costs 30 pts, and the target gets a CON roll every phase (starting at +0 and gaining +1 to the roll every phase after the first he is subjected to a constant CE:Stun attack) Note that it does NOT actually reduce his STUN total at all, it just makes him suffer the effects of being Stunned

[psyber624]

Re: Stunning Power

 

True' date=' but the All or Nothing aspect of the Limitation only applies to the Body, not the Stun of the attack. Maybe drop the Lim to -1/4?[/quote'] I'd say 1/4 is about right, as long as the attack is strong enough to kill outright at least an unarmored human (ie 4-6 dice, depending on how generous the GM is). If it is less than that it may be worth more (as it will likely never do any body unless the target is already severely wounded.) If it is more than that it may not be worth more than -0 (if its some type of uber attack, 10d6 RKA will kill all but the toughest Bricks out there, and thats if its not some form of AVAD. At this level its not really a limitation at all since it will almost ALWAYS manage to kill its target).

[Lucius]

Re: Stunning Power

 

I'd say 1/4 is about right' date=' as long as the attack is strong enough to kill outright at least an unarmored human (ie 4-6 dice, depending on how generous the GM is). If it is less than that it may be worth more (as it will likely never do any body unless the target is already severely wounded.) If it is more than that it may not be worth more than -0 (if its some type of uber attack, 10d6 RKA will kill all but the toughest Bricks out there, and thats if its not some form of AVAD. At this level its not really a limitation at all since it will almost ALWAYS manage to kill its target).[/quote']

 

Doesn't the same logic apply to Transform?

 

Lucius Alexander

 

All or Nothing Palindromedary

[psyber624]

Re: Stunning Power

 

Yup, and as a GM i would apply the same logic to the cost of the limitation for Transform as well. IMHO some limitation values presented in the book are based upon some assumptions about the power build, so there are cases where they are not an accurate adjustment of the overall price (there are a number that RAW it even says you may need to adjust). This is just a perfect example of such a limitation. Please note that rarely would I say its worth less than -1/4 (most campaigns defenses should scale with attacks, so unless you are playing a game with NO cap concepts it is unlikely you will be able to afford a Transform/RKA capable of killing pretty much anyone in one shot. )

 

I will admit that I didn't explain what I meant very well. -1/4 on a 10d6 RKA in a cosmic powered campaign might be appropriate. In a Standard Campaign its not much of a limitation at all (exactly who wont it one shot??) so I don't feel its appropriate to that level of play. Of course neither is a 10d6 RKA, but you get the drift.

 

 

Now, if you were saying it should be -1/2 instead of -1/4, the attack still does normal STUN damage, so its not as limiting as it would be on a Transform (where All or Nothing means the attack does basically nothing if it fails to fully transform). Add to that the concept that the RKA mentioned above only has to be enough to Kill them from their current body (which may already be significantly lower than the starting value due to other attacks) compared to Transform where it will ALWAYS have to do double starting BODY its also worth less.

[Steve]

Re: Stunning Power

 

Could the Change Environment Stunning power take the "Long Lasting" adder on it? I wouldn't think so, but being able to stun someone for longer would certainly be quite a potent ability.

[psyber624]

Re: Stunning Power

 

Well, with the breakout roll it would likely not be much use as eventually the adders would make it nearly impossible to fail.