How do you feel about House Rules?

[psyber624]

Re: How do you feel about House Rules?

 

It is not actually ambiguous in their setting I would imagine. In their group lexicon "CON Stunned" would probably be defined as something akin to "Momentarily disoriented by the amount of damage taken by an attack". The fact that it likely originated from HERO system is irrelevant. In their group it is understood what it is meant and calling it CON Stunned could easily help to distinguish it from other uses of the word Stunned that come up in gaming (such as being Stunned from a Sci-Fi Stunner type weapon, or as mentioned the "momentarily taken aback" definition alluded to in the "You're stunned to see your dead father alive" example.) In their particular group it has simply evolved into a term that adequately expresses a specific definition that exceeds the boundaries of its literal definition and so, at least among them, has seen extended use.

[Kirby]

Re: How do you feel about House Rules?

 

It just seems really weird that a term specifically coined to avoid ambiguity would then be intentionally made ambiguous itself by applying it to other things for no apparent reason.

See, here's your problem: you're assuming the exact opposite of what has been stated to have happened. I've explained multiple times on this thread about my previous gaming groups using a term across multiple RPGs. It's not only clear to us, but we're also doing it for a reason.

 

What's illogical to me is people's obsession with a gaming group's jargon on a thread about House Rules. But hey, we all have our quirks.

 

YMMV.

[Kirby]

Re: How do you feel about House Rules?

 

It is not actually ambiguous in their setting I would imagine. In their group lexicon "CON Stunned" would probably be defined as something akin to "Momentarily disoriented by the amount of damage taken by an attack". The fact that it likely originated from HERO system is irrelevant. In their group it is understood what it is meant and calling it CON Stunned could easily help to distinguish it from other uses of the word Stunned that come up in gaming (such as being Stunned from a Sci-Fi Stunner type weapon' date=' or as mentioned the "momentarily taken aback" definition alluded to in the "You're stunned to see your dead father alive" example.) In their particular group it has simply evolved into a term that adequately expresses a specific definition that exceeds the boundaries of its literal definition and so, at least among them, has seen extended use.[/quote']You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to psyber624 again.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: How do you feel about House Rules?

 

I didn't encounter it till around 2002 or so IRL. I had seen it and commented on it on the boards (different screen name in those days) but till I started playing with a new group I hadn't heard it.

 

I never have played with George, Steve P or Ray. Though I have met them at cons.

 

The first group I played Champions/Hero with back in 1990 did not use the term "Con Stunned", they just said "stunned". The second group I played with around 1992 did use the term Con Stunned. Not sure where they got it from but I know at least 1 of the players was a regular member of the Red October forums back then.

[Kirby]

Re: How do you feel about House Rules?

 

Back on the actual topic:

 

Anyone have a problem with or use a house rule about VPPs? They can tend to be very abusive in many players' hands. I had a GM allow me to use it once, but I had to have any powers I wanted to use written down before the gaming session (which was fine for me). Any ideas for powers that came up during that session couldn't be used until the next session (and with GM's approval, of course).

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: How do you feel about House Rules?

 

I like and dislike house rules at the same time. In general, I want the game that I am playing to be able to handle all of the situations that my character will find themselves in within the core mechanics of the system at hand. If the game cannot do that on a basic level it is essentially useless to me.

 

That being said, I also don't have a problem activating optional rules or deactivating core rules or mechanics to get the feel of the genre or setting I am attempting to simulate correct. For example, if I want to run a gritty and somewhat realistic fantasy game, I will likely start using hit locations, impairing/disabling rules and critical hit rules, all of which are official, but optional. In addition to this, I would probably remove or revise the rules for knockback to reflect the more realistic feel that I want for the game.

 

For my own gaming efforts, houe rules are usually not created to cover for a percieved deficiency with the system, but are usually minor adjustments or additions to the RAW in order to promote a specific feel to my game. I think the vast majority of house ruling in the Hero community is of this type and are usually by those players and gms who emulate genres other than super heroes. I find that regular champions players run with fewer house rules (and optional rules) than those who regularly play in other genres. This has a tendancy to color ones perception of not only how the game should be run, but of what the game is capable of doing. There have been many discussions in the past on how tough it is to kill characters in Hero and it usually boiled down to two sides..champions players who claimed that characters were incredibly difficult to kill in the systeem and Fantasy Hero players who claimed that characters were incredibly easy to kill. Why the disconnect? One reason is the disparity in the defense characteristics used in the different genres, but IMOo the main reason was the regular use of optional rules that significantly increased lethality in the system and thus, completely altering the "feel" of the game. Most Champions players I have encountered use few, if any optional rules (normally sticking with the core RAW) which gives the game a four color, superheoic slugfest feeling, which is great for Champions, but not so much for Shadow World, Lord of the Rings or Babylon 5. Minor adjustments to the RAW, activation of optionals and the deactivation of Core mechanics are what is needed to remove the game from its superheroic origins in order to better emulate the genre at hand. There is nothing wrong with this, in fact, Hero Games creators themselves did this regularly pre-4th edition when it published Champions, Fantasy Hero, Star Hero and Justice Incorporated all as seperate games with minor variations to the RAW to change the feel for the genre at hand. Players who house rule now are simply following the example created by the games originators.

[Ndreare]

Re: How do you feel about House Rules?

 

I like and dislike house rules at the same time. In general, I want the game that I am playing to be able to handle all of the situations that my character will find themselves in within the core mechanics of the system at hand. If the game cannot do that on a basic level it is essentially useless to me.

 

That being said, I also don't have a problem activating optional rules or deactivating core rules or mechanics to get the feel of the genre or setting I am attempting to simulate correct. For example, if I want to run a gritty and somewhat realistic fantasy game, I will likely start using hit locations, impairing/disabling rules and critical hit rules, all of which are official, but optional. In addition to this, I would probably remove or revise the rules for knockback to reflect the more realistic feel that I want for the game.

 

For my own gaming efforts, houe rules are usually not created to cover for a percieved deficiency with the system, but are usually minor adjustments or additions to the RAW in order to promote a specific feel to my game. I think the vast majority of house ruling in the Hero community is of this type and are usually by those players and gms who emulate genres other than super heroes. I find that regular champions players run with fewer house rules (and optional rules) than those who regularly play in other genres. This has a tendancy to color ones perception of not only how the game should be run, but of what the game is capable of doing. There have been many discussions in the past on how tough it is to kill characters in Hero and it usually boiled down to two sides..champions players who claimed that characters were incredibly difficult to kill in the systeem and Fantasy Hero players who claimed that characters were incredibly easy to kill. Why the disconnect? One reason is the disparity in the defense characteristics used in the different genres, but IMOo the main reason was the regular use of optional rules that significantly increased lethality in the system and thus, completely altering the "feel" of the game. Most Champions players I have encountered use few, if any optional rules (normally sticking with the core RAW) which gives the game a four color, superheoic slugfest feeling, which is great for Champions, but not so much for Shadow World, Lord of the Rings or Babylon 5. Minor adjustments to the RAW, activation of optionals and the deactivation of Core mechanics are what is needed to remove the game from its superheroic origins in order to better emulate the genre at hand. There is nothing wrong with this, in fact, Hero Games creators themselves did this regularly pre-4th edition when it published Champions, Fantasy Hero, Star Hero and Justice Incorporated all as seperate games with minor variations to the RAW to change the feel for the genre at hand. Players who house rule now are simply following the example created by the games originators.

Well said. And repped.

[JmOz]

Re: How do you feel about House Rules?

 

I suspect most people use house rules to some extent or another.

 

Using things like Growth, Shrinking and Density Increase as Persistant and Always On is an example of one I'd have no problem with and often use myself.

 

I probably ought to house rule a change to the Extra Limb rules (specifically to close the loophole that lets you save more points on Characteristics "Not with Extra Limbs" than the Extra Limbs themselves cost) because yes, that one IS broken but I guess I'm enough of a munchkin at heart that I don't want to close up one of the last true loopholes the rules have.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

I can almost fit a palindromedary through that loophole

 

I fixed the extra limb problem easily, I have them apply a limitation to the extra limb power "can only use XX strength with limb(s)" -1/4 for each halving or partial of. I also make it default to inherent

[JmOz]

Re: How do you feel about House Rules?

 

To answer the root question: I have a few house rules, depending on setting

 

My biggest house rule tends to be that I do not use everyman skills. Each character gets an extra 25 points, and there is a list of skills I highly recomend that they take. Multiform/duplication/followers/etc...get an additional 25 build points for free. This allows for a bit of custimization of the "everyman" skills, and gives characters a small bonus in points for being good at everyman type skills

 

For my street level champions game I also have merged Followers/Vehicles/Bases into one ability, this has ramifications for the use of the +5/x2 rule. It was to encourage the Batman type of character.

[Kirby]

Re: How do you feel about House Rules?

 

To answer the root question: I have a few house rules, depending on setting

 

My biggest house rule tends to be that I do not use everyman skills. Each character gets an extra 25 points, and there is a list of skills I highly recomend that they take. Multiform/duplication/followers/etc...get an additional 25 build points for free. This allows for a bit of custimization of the "everyman" skills, and gives characters a small bonus in points for being good at everyman type skills

 

For my street level champions game I also have merged Followers/Vehicles/Bases into one ability, this has ramifications for the use of the +5/x2 rule. It was to encourage the Batman type of character.

I had a GM once who would allow up to 25 non-combat skills, perks, and talents if you gave him at least a one page background on your character's history. He started this because many players didn't do backgrounds for their characters (I'm included in that) and he felt this would flesh them out more (and probably give him potential story lines later). The other Champions GM eventually started doing this and when I started to GM Champions in face-to-face games, I did so as well.

 

My personal preference is to develop my character in-game, so this helped me learn a different method.

[psyber624]

Re: How do you feel about House Rules?

 

Definitely like that idea Kirby (you must spread rep yadda yadda yadda).

[Lucius]

Re: How do you feel about House Rules?

 

I fixed the extra limb problem easily' date=' I have them apply a limitation to the extra limb power "can only use XX strength with limb(s)" -1/4 for each halving or partial of. I also make it default to inherent[/quote']

 

Exactly the kind of house rule I had in mind.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary looks to the Ultimate Base for house rules

[bigbywolfe]

Re: How do you feel about House Rules?

 

I know I asked when Lucius brought it up before but I am still unable to find that "loophole" of a Limitation in any 5E or 6E book. Does anyone have a reference to it? I'm not sure it actually exists beyond GMs unthinkingly allowing it in the first place.

[Lucius]

Re: How do you feel about House Rules?

 

I know I asked when Lucius brought it up before but I am still unable to find that "loophole" of a Limitation in any 5E or 6E book. Does anyone have a reference to it? I'm not sure it actually exists beyond GMs unthinkingly allowing it in the first place.

 

6E1, Page 224, description of the Extra Limbs Power, right hand side of the page.

 

If the Extra Limbs cannot exercise the character’s

full STR or DEX, the character may take a -¼

Limitation on those Characteristics to reflect that

fact. If the Extra Limbs are stronger than the character’s

normal limbs, the character may buy STR

with the -½ Limitation Only With Extra Limbs.

 

I don't know where you were looking for it, but if you have the 6th Edition Character Creation book you should be able to find it easily enough. I'm pretty sure it's in the 5th edition book too.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary buys Extra Limbs, Invisible Power Effects, Inherent, Limited Manipulation, No Conscious Control, and refuses to answer character design or philosophy questions

[Greywind]

Re: How do you feel about House Rules?

 

5th R p173

 

Limited Manipulation (-¼): Extra Limbs with this

Limitation are not as functional as human hands.

Th e character can use them to hit targets, and perhaps

to pick up large or easily-grasped objects, but

not to pick up more delicate objects or perform

other types of relatively fi ne manipulation.

If the Extra Limbs cannot exercise the character’s

full STR or DEX, the character may take a -¼

Limitation on those Characteristics to refl ect that

fact. If the Extra Limbs are stronger than the character’s

normal limbs, the character may buy STR

with the -½ Limitation Only With Extra Limbs.

[Kirby]

Re: How do you feel about House Rules?

 

6E1' date=' Page 224, description of the Extra Limbs Power, right hand side of the page.[/quote']

5th R p173

Fifth Edition, p.112.