How do you feel about House Rules?

[Tasha]

Re: How do you feel about House Rules?

 

3 and 18 are always success and failure by RAW' date=' and max damage is a common critical hit option so I wouldn't call that a "house rule". Same with using options listed in the book for luck.[/quote']

 

Max Damage Crits used to be RAW. They first appeared in FH 1.0. They work pretty well in Heroic games, but can be very nasty if coupled with a lucky Hit Location roll (ie Head and Vitals). In Champions Max Damage is really over powered. I usually go with Raw and give extra DC's for Crits. If I were to House Rule a max damage crit for Champions, I might do something like D20. Where a 3 becomes a "Potential Crit", to become confirmed the Attacker Rolls to hit again, and if they hit the target on that second roll the crit is confirmed. (it decreases the impact that Crits have on PC's because NPC's don't always have the juice to hit a PC a second time).

[Ockham's Spoon]

Re: How do you feel about House Rules?

 

While a lot of house rules are broken, they can be useful for setting the tone of the campaign, and the flexibility of HERO almost encourages that. For example if you want gritty realism, then add Critical Hit rules for good dice rolls. That tends to make for faster, deadlier combat, but that was kind of the point.

 

The house rules I use most often are for streamlining combat. Stuff like making mooks one or two hit foes so I don't have to keep track of their STN totals, or only doing initiative once at the beginning of combat so I don't have to roll it every time two characters with the same DEX and SPD come up. It does rob the game of some of its detail, but it speeds gameplay which I think is a fair trade-off.

[Tasha]

Re: How do you feel about House Rules?

 

While a lot of house rules are broken, they can be useful for setting the tone of the campaign, and the flexibility of HERO almost encourages that. For example if you want gritty realism, then add Critical Hit rules for good dice rolls. That tends to make for faster, deadlier combat, but that was kind of the point.

 

The house rules I use most often are for streamlining combat. Stuff like making mooks one or two hit foes so I don't have to keep track of their STN totals, or only doing initiative once at the beginning of combat so I don't have to roll it every time two characters with the same DEX and SPD come up. It does rob the game of some of its detail, but it speeds gameplay which I think is a fair trade-off.

 

The first is a campaign option.

 

the Second is a suggestion that first appeared in FH 2nd edition IIRC. It's a great suggestion for running large combats with a ton of Mooks. IT's more akin to fudging stun totals to make a combat more exciting.

[Derek Hiemforth]

Re: How do you feel about House Rules?

 

[*]DAZED: What HERO refers to as CON Stunned' date=' I refer to as dazed.[/quote']

 

Just as an aside, HERO doesn't refer to anything as "CON Stunned," and it never has, in any edition of the rules. I've known countless people who use this term, but have always been a bit puzzled at how it got so widespread, considering that it doesn't appear anywhere in the rules... Anyone know?

[Greywind]

Re: How do you feel about House Rules?

 

Because an effective hit that exceeds CON is stunned.

[griffinman01]

Re: How do you feel about House Rules?

 

I only use house rules for situations that are usually too difficult to try and work out normally (or if the situation isn't in the rules as far as I can tell) or if something doesn't seem right to me about the RAW. For an example of both:

 

1) I had a player ask me how knockback works against a grabbed target. His brick wanted to punch a guy being held by my average STR individual and we both agreed that the hit would probably rip the character out of her grasp which would be a benefit to the grabbed character (he gets out without having to spend an action) and for the PCs (he was going to be punched into a wall). The house rule I came up with is that you treat it as a break-out roll where the knockback is the amount of body rolled. So if the punch did 8 body and the grabber rolled 5 on the breakout roll (using the bonuses from the martial grab) then the guy would be broken out of the grab and fly back 3 inches. That was the best way I could come up with at the time for an unusual situation.

 

2) I never liked how throwing an object never gave a damage boost compared to your normal attack because it was always felt like it should be more useful. If you pick up a car and throw it I would think it would do more damage than getting hit by the same guy just by simple velocity rules. To make is simple I made a house rule that you added dice equal to the DEF of the object (the harder it is the more it hurts, and this also tends to correlate with weight) up to the Def+Body as per RAW. Now people have a reason to try and throw a car in combat.

 

House rules don't work in every situation or campaign so results may vary, but I take the stance that sometimes you have to clean things up to make it easier and more fun in the heat of combat. If it takes more than a couple of minutes to try and dig up a specific ruling for an odd situation (another example was how much more damage would you get by grabbing a guy and then doing a jumping piledriver (6 inches of vertical leap) versus a normal piledriver), then it breaks the flow of the game so, as the GM, I'll often rule the best I can on it off the top of my head as a house rule for that day and then find the 'correct' way later on.

[phoenix240]

Re: How do you feel about House Rules?

 

What constitutes a House Rule exactly? HERO is filled to the brim with optional rules, added rules, GM Option abilities, Caution and Stop Sign powers, etc. etc. etc. Which pieces you choose to allow (or disallow) in your campaign can also be viewed as a "House Rule" and if the forums are any indication could receive just as much antagonism from some players as an "original rule" which is not in HERO at all.

 

For instance, in my campaigns I would generally limit Multipowers. The limits I use are based off of my own observations of the power and the amount of "discount" I feel is appropriate. However my guidelines are not in any published source material. Does this constitute a House Rule?

 

Generally, I consider it a House Rule when its original not an Optional Rule from the books. Your Multipower guidelines would probably fit under that criteria, for instance.

[phoenix240]

Re: How do you feel about House Rules?

 

I'm not sure there's anything in Hero I'd describe as "nonfunctional."

 

Sorry, I was speaking in general terms about when I employ House Rules not just regarding Hero System. I should have been clearer.

[Pattern Ghost]

Re: How do you feel about House Rules?

 

First time I saw CON-stunned was here. Well, not this here, but the here that was here a few forums ago. My thought was that it was used to distinguish between the condition and the stat, although it probably wasn't necessary.

 

As far as house rules go, I tend to be less inclined to use any in a system as complex as Hero, though if I ran a 5th edition game, I'd probably house rule some powers back to their simpler and less over-distilled forms from 4th edition. (Regen, LS and Instant Change, off the top of my head, for examples.) In those cases, the powers didn't really change substantially, just their write ups. Usually, a very light touch is a good thing with house rules.

 

I noticed several people mentioning restricting powers available as being a house rule. In Hero, I've always considered that more of a campaign ground rule than a house rule, since it's not really a departure from the toolkitting aspect of Hero.

[Kirby]

Re: How do you feel about House Rules?

 

• A 'to hit' roll of 3 will always succeed, and as long as a 3 or less wasn't needed, it will do maximum damage. A 'to hit' or skill roll of 18 will always miss or fail, and will generally be harmful, if not embarrassing.
  

3 and 18 are always success and failure by RAW' date=' and max damage is a common critical hit option so I wouldn't call that a "house rule". Same with using options listed in the book for luck.[/quote']Naturally, you don't have to; however, I do and will. The max damage option/rule is not listed in FREd or BBB, so while it may be common for players, it's not an official rule, making it a house rule (and can help when explaining to new players). Additionally, on the failure (18), you didn't mention the part of "will generally be harmful, if not embarrassing." This is the standard I use instead of official options such as 1/2 DCV.

 

As for Luck, unless player preferred, I eliminate the "[e]ach '6' rolled counts as 1 point of Luck" actual rule. It also shows that I won't be including the dice re-rolling method.

 

 

Ockham's Spoon brought up something that I tend to use as an unwritten GM rule: Mooks being 1-2 hit NPCs, although it tends to depend on the scene. If the scene is about the "mook" interaction, then I might concern myself with their actual Stun; however, if they're fodder for a larger event, then I let them fall. I also tend to have them KO'd if they're Dazed/CON Stunned/Stunned.

 

Naturally, what's good for the PCs is good for the NPCs.

 

PS: As a few have stated here, my house rules also tend to be rules that are grandfathered in from 4E to 5E.

[Kirby]

Re: How do you feel about House Rules?

 

Just as an aside' date=' HERO doesn't refer to anything as "CON Stunned," and it never has, in any edition of the rules. I've known countless people who use this term, but have always been a bit puzzled at how it got so widespread, considering that it doesn't appear anywhere in the rules... Anyone know? [/quote']

Because an effective hit that exceeds CON is stunned.

What Greywind stated. It is also helpful for new players learning the HERO system (when Stun, Stun Drain, and Stunned come into play).

 

Dazed is a term my old face-to-face group incorporated so long ago that I don't recall if its origin appeared during Champions or another game system.

[Ndreare]

Re: How do you feel about House Rules?

 

The most common house rule we have and use is not using end rules. End frustrates more players and takes a lot of fun out of the game for them. In exchange if the wat to push it cost 1 body and 1D6 stun per 5 AP.

Stun effectivly becomes and and the players are happy.

 

Other than that every game we run uses a house rule or optional rule in order to capture a feel needed for the genre.

[Tasha]

Re: How do you feel about House Rules?

 

What Greywind stated. It is also helpful for new players learning the HERO system (when Stun, Stun Drain, and Stunned come into play).

 

Dazed is a term my old face-to-face group incorporated so long ago that I don't recall if its origin appeared during Champions or another game system.

 

I have been teaching new players for decades. I have never met anyone who had a problem distinguishing being Stunned from Being Knocked out. Esp when the terms are used in a consistent manner. If the player is having a problem remembering the stunning rule. I ask "Did the Stun the character took exceed the character's stun?" If yes, I say that "Ok your Character is Stunned". Pretty simple. Never really understood why people had to go and make another term for something that is crystal clear.

[Tasha]

Re: How do you feel about House Rules?

 

Just as an aside' date=' HERO doesn't refer to anything as "CON Stunned," and it never has, in any edition of the rules. I've known countless people who use this term, but have always been a bit puzzled at how it got so widespread, considering that it doesn't appear anywhere in the rules... Anyone know? [/quote']

 

I agree completely. In fact the team kind of bugs me as the Rules are so clear and have always been clear on the difference between being KOed and Being Stunned.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: How do you feel about House Rules?

 

I think the term might have originated at gaming tables during the the last big combat of the night where everyone is might be getting louder than normal. In a loud environment it is conceivable that "stunned" is hard to distinguish from "stun".

 

"What do you mean 'my character's stun'?" My character has 40 Stun left!"

...

"No, your character is stunned! as in CON-stunned!"

....

"OH!!! ok... bummer...."

 

The pronunciation explanation then becomes the defacto term to use in all future combats with that particular group.

[Kirby]

Re: How do you feel about House Rules?

 

I have been teaching new players for decades. I have never met anyone who had a problem distinguishing being Stunned from Being Knocked out. Esp when the terms are used in a consistent manner.

I'm sorry if it upsets you that I don't have the experience of your near-perfect game-teaching. To compensate, I don't have your experience of your "house rules are more broken / caught up in their own cleverness/ house rules cause problems," so I suppose it balances out.

 

EDIT: Not intending this to sound snarky, just trying to point out that different people have different methods from their different perspectives and experiences.

I used to have extensive houserules for every game system I played. Eventually I came to see that most houserules are more broken than the "broken" rules they were designed to fix. Mostly because most people who houserule something have no idea why the RAW was crafted the way it was in the first place. Also they tend to be too caught up in their own cleverness to recognize any holes and exploits in their House rule. Many times houserules cause problems with players and are rarely brought to a group for a vote. Mostly they are shoved down the throats of players, no matter how those players might feel about such houserules.

 

Also, most house rules seem to always make something that's very simple and understandable into something that is completely complex and hard to understand.

You seem to have trouble understanding how someone doesn't understand the terminology used, yet have trouble with house rules, which I would think would be a clear sign that there's more than one way to learn.

 

YMMV

 

PS:

I have never met anyone who had a problem distinguishing being Stunned from Being Knocked out. Esp when the terms are used in a consistent manner.

I agree completely. In fact the team kind of bugs me as the Rules are so clear and have always been clear on the difference between being KOed and Being Stunned.

I don't think anyone here has talked about the difference between being KO'd and being Stunned, which might be why this is upsetting you.

[ghost-angel]

Re: How do you feel about House Rules?

 

I like House Rules that encourage that either

 

a) Reinforce Genre Conventions; This is the big one, like the way that the Optional Knockback Rules reinforce Superhero Genre Conventions. Any shift in the rules that immerses the game into the genre is a good choice.

 

Adjust the Rules to the Groups Playstyle, regardless of Genre Conventions. Like using Range Modifiers from previous editions.

[Ndreare]

Re: How do you feel about House Rules?

 

On the stunned v. con stunned issue, it is common assosiation. My player never have and prob never will use the internet, yet they call it con stunned. Why because they assosiate being stunned with a failure of their Con, not a failure of their stun.

When their stun is out they say they are knocked out, or fo our meloncholy player he is "Dead".

[The Main Man]

Re: How do you feel about House Rules?

 

Most houserules suck. If you think you have a clever houserule, you should post it to a message board filled with fans of the system. Then you will see how those people tear the 'great idea' apart and show you the limitations of your idea.

Exactly what I have done countless times.

 

I like house rules to be small and simple. Thing is, sometimes a small house rule has big consequences. Furthermore, a second opinion our two helps when you get them from people with different philosophies than yourself. I do think HERO is a special case becausemuch of it is based on opinion and adaptability; there are many ideas that really aren't house rules so much as speculations and interpretations of the system.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: How do you feel about House Rules?

 

When you look over the different editions of HERO starting with 4E, you start to appreciate how much subjective opinion influences the RAW. Each edition was helmed by experienced HEROphiles who received a lot of input from our gaming community; yet each one has done some fundamental things differently. Stuff from one edition disappears in the next, but sometimes reappears in the edition after that, often without explanation for the change.

 

I remember an online discussion with Steve Long from years before Fifth Edition was published, when he was writing the rules draft but not yet the one making final decisions. One preview that had circulated involved a rather awkward workaround of Speed which looked like it would be easier to put a Limitation on. Steve said he wrote it that way because "Steve Peterson [Hero Games editor at the time] hated Limited Speed."

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: How do you feel about House Rules?

 

3 and 18 are always success and failure by RAW' date=' and max damage is a common critical hit option so I wouldn't call that a "house rule". Same with using options listed in the book for luck.[/quote']

 

Ah, yes, that's another rule I don't use. Rolling a 3 or 18 just means you rolled a 3 or 18.

[Kirby]

Re: How do you feel about House Rules?

 

When you look over the different editions of HERO starting with 4E' date=' you start to appreciate how much subjective opinion influences the RAW.[/quote']What's RAW stand for? I presume it has been introduced with 6E?

[McCoy]

Re: How do you feel about House Rules?

 

What's RAW stand for? I presume it has been introduced with 6E?

From context I assumed Rules As Written.

[phoenix240]

Re: How do you feel about House Rules?

 

What's RAW stand for? I presume it has been introduced with 6E?

 

Rules As Written

[Derek Hiemforth]

Re: How do you feel about House Rules?

 

Rules As Written. It has nothing to do with 6E specifically; it's a generally-used acronym in the RPG community.