Are Bullets a "piercing" Attack?

[Edsel]

This question grew out of studying the defenses of assorted creatures in MHI, but it is a Hero System question so I felt it best to post here. Example: a creature has +2PD, Resistant (+1/2), Only Works Against Slashing Or Piercing Attacks (-1/2). In this context do bullets from firearms count as piercing attacks?

[TheRealDeal]

In general, you can think of it like this:

1) Piercing Attacks: tend to leave a small external wound in order to seek to penetrate deeper into the body to harm internal organs.

2) Slashing Attacks: tend to leave more extensive/larger external wounds usually to cause more pain and more severe, immediate bleeding, but tend not to penetrate as deeply, unless the area hit was thin or weak enough to cut through completely (like severing an arm).

3) Blunt Attacks: tend not to break the skin quite as much but cause severe bruising and seek to break bones and perhaps hope the force knocks the foe back/down and may cause internal bleeding indirectly, through breaking bones that then rip into internal organs, or just the overwhelming force of impact breaks internal blood vessels, etc.

 

So I would say bullets are piercing attacks.

[IndianaJoe3]

I'm trying to think of SFX for a physical Killing Attack that aren't slashing or piercing. (Blunt force is usually built as a Normal Attack.)

[Ninja-Bear]

I'm trying to think of SFX for a physical Killing Attack that aren't slashing or piercing. (Blunt force is usually built as a Normal Attack.)

In hero beastry 4th had the ostrich' s kick bought as a HKA cause their kicks are so strong. I think too that the chimp had a HKA cause they can rip your limbs off.

[bigbywolfe]

Blunt force weapons like war hammers, flails, and maces are usually built as Killing Attacks. Even if a flail or mace is spiked or something I would call that crushing damage (or something) not slashing.

 

Is there a difference between slashing and chopping? Perhaps the average katana strike (or sword strike in general) and slicing someone's throat with a dagger would be "slashing", but would hacking at someone with a machete or hatchet? What about large 2 handed swords and axes that really more chopped and crushed than cut or slit?

 

To some extent I think it depends on how detailed you want to get and how many sub-categories of damage you want to have.

 

[bigbywolfe]

Also, to answer the OP, yes bullets are generally considered "piercing".

 

There could be exceptions of course. One might argue that some ammunition would not count as piercing, for example fragmenting hollow point ammo (especially if it is specifically designed to wound certain types of creatures) or that shotgun shot already have Reduced Penetration and since they are getting hit by a whole bunch of pellets it shouldn't be considered piercing.

 

I'm not actually arguing those points, just pointing out that what one considered "piercing" or "slashing" or whatever might not be universal, and even if we agree on the general things (bullets= piercing) there may be exceptions in the specifics.

[Beast]

Blunt force weapons like war hammers, flails, and maces are usually built as Killing Attacks. Even if a flail or mace is spiked or something I would call that crushing damage (or something) not slashing.

 

Is there a difference between slashing and chopping? Perhaps the average katana strike (or sword strike in general) and slicing someone's throat with a dagger would be "slashing", but would hacking at someone with a machete or hatchet? What about large 2 handed swords and axes that really more chopped and crushed than cut or slit?

 

To some extent I think it depends on how detailed you want to get and how many sub-categories of damage you want to have.

A 2 handed sword could do slash,pierce or blunt force trama

it would be more dependent on the type of armor struck and did it penetrate(do body)and what type of blow generated

 

If the blow is going through Ridged resistant defense ,say more than 1/2 or more body generated is done to the target call it a slash

If less crushing

no armor slash

If the blow is hitting flexible armor(Chain ,Scale ) it is pretty much Crushing

Ram the pointy end through something Piercing

[bigbywolfe]

Blunt force weapons like war hammers, flails, and maces are usually built as Killing Attacks. Even if a flail or mace is spiked or something I would call that crushing damage (or something) not slashing.

 

Is there a difference between slashing and chopping? Perhaps the average katana strike (or sword strike in general) and slicing someone's throat with a dagger would be "slashing", but would hacking at someone with a machete or hatchet? What about large 2 handed swords and axes that really more chopped and crushed than cut or slit?

 

To some extent I think it depends on how detailed you want to get and how many sub-categories of damage you want to have.

All true Beast. I wasn't trying to pigeon hole 2 handed swords into one "damage adjective" (or whatever we are calling these classifications), just responding to Indiana about Killing Attacks in general not needing to be slash/pierce damage.

[Edsel]

Right now I am going with the interpretation that bullets count as "piercing" damage. I am using a Wraith as the enemy in the short MHI scenario that I am running and it has 2 points of PD that apply "Only to Slashing and Piercing Attacks" and another 2 PD that apply "Only to Piercing Attacks". I am going with the assumption that all 4 of those additional PD apply to damage from bullets. By the way the Wraith in the MHI setting is very nasty. I am pleasantly surprised that the lone PC is still alive and I haven't had to arrange for an NPC cavalry save yet. Our game was interrupted mid battle today so we will have to finish it up tomorrow (pitfall of trying to get in a quick scenario during a 1-hour lunch break).

[Beast]

Blunt force weapons like war hammers, flails, and maces are usually built as Killing Attacks. Even if a flail or mace is spiked or something I would call that crushing damage (or something) not slashing.

 

Is there a difference between slashing and chopping? Perhaps the average katana strike (or sword strike in general) and slicing someone's throat with a dagger would be "slashing", but would hacking at someone with a machete or hatchet? What about large 2 handed swords and axes that really more chopped and crushed than cut or slit?

 

To some extent I think it depends on how detailed you want to get and how many sub-categories of damage you want to have.

I was just pointing out that many factors can come into play

I used the 2 handed sword as it is 1 I'm very familiar with through my 23 yrs of ren faire

 

A non penatrating bullet would be crushing/blunt force trama

[Tasha]

I'm trying to think of SFX for a physical Killing Attack that aren't slashing or piercing. (Blunt force is usually built as a Normal Attack.)

Also Hammers, and Flails are both purchased as HKA's.

[mhd]

Any sufficiently fast blunt attack is indistinguishable form a piercing one... I think it really depends on the specific situation, unless you want to introduce even more damage type to generically cover things (I think GURPS 4E has about half a dozen now). For the mentioned skeletal immunity, another approach would be to classify bullets as bypassing the added PD if they have a positive STUNx. So bring the big guns...

[JasonPacker]

Any sufficiently fast blunt attack is indistinguishable form a piercing one... I think it really depends on the specific situation, unless you want to introduce even more damage type to generically cover things (I think GURPS 4E has about half a dozen now). For the mentioned skeletal immunity, another approach would be to classify bullets as bypassing the added PD if they have a positive STUNx. So bring the big guns...

Thankfully, most of GURPS options are around Piercing attacks, and based on the size of the piercing object, to determine a wound modifier. But even there, bullets are piercing.

[mhd]

Any sufficiently fast blunt attack is indistinguishable form a piercing one... I think it really depends on the specific situation, unless you want to introduce even more damage type to generically cover things (I think GURPS 4E has about half a dozen now). For the mentioned skeletal immunity, another approach would be to classify bullets as bypassing the added PD if they have a positive STUNx. So bring the big guns...

But they can be small piercing, piercing, large piercing or huge piercing, depending on caliber (as well as the usual impaling for bigger projectiles). All with different wound modifiers for unliving targets, if I remember correctly.

[IndianaJoe3]

Any sufficiently fast blunt attack is indistinguishable form a piercing one... I think it really depends on the specific situation, unless you want to introduce even more damage type to generically cover things (I think GURPS 4E has about half a dozen now). For the mentioned skeletal immunity, another approach would be to classify bullets as bypassing the added PD if they have a positive STUNx. So bring the big guns...

And people claim HERO is complicated... :eyeroll: