How To Build (5th Ed-Rev): Andromeda Style Slipspace Piloting

[clsage]

Considering how best to work out a starship piloting method much like that shown in Gene Rodenberry's Andromeda,

to wit: a pilots decision(s) of routing while in slipspace effects the speed that the ship can make any specific journey. Which means, to me, that a pilot can modify the FTL travel rate (eg: a skilled pilot flies a ship at 4LY/day, whereas a less skilled pilot can only make 2LY/day, etc).

 

So my query involves how to write out the 'base' FTL Travel power in the vessel versus the enhancement levels the pilot brings.....

 

Thoughts, anyone?

 

(BTW, I am looking to do this build in 5th Ed-Rev. I do not have access to 6th Edition nor do I expect to......Thanks.)

 

-Carl-

[Christougher]

Couple thoughts to get you started:

 

Requires Skill Roll, either on the base FTL, or an addon-FTL so there's always a minimum speed.  KS: Slipstream might be useful/complementary.

 

Similar to the second half of above, experienced FTL pilots buy an Aid FTL, possibly with the RSR.

 

Chris.

[Beast]

since there was no flying by computer I'd say have the pilot buy the FTL level along with what the ship can do in FTL

 

his way a hotshot pilot can do more than just a regular pilot

[Tasha]

Considering how best to work out a starship piloting method much like that shown in Gene Rodenberry's Andromeda,

to wit: a pilots decision(s) of routing while in slipspace effects the speed that the ship can make any specific journey. Which means, to me, that a pilot can modify the FTL travel rate (eg: a skilled pilot flies a ship at 4LY/day, whereas a less skilled pilot can only make 2LY/day, etc).

 

So my query involves how to write out the 'base' FTL Travel power in the vessel versus the enhancement levels the pilot brings.....

 

Thoughts, anyone?

 

(BTW, I am looking to do this build in 5th Ed-Rev. I do not have access to 6th Edition nor do I expect to......Thanks.)

 

-Carl-

That's fine because there would be NO difference between a 6e answer and a 5.x answer. From what I remember of the show the better the pilot the faster a ship will move though slipsream. So what might take a mediocre pilot 2 days of piloting though the Slipstream a great pilot may take a couple of hours to get to the same place. Also a great pilot might make the trip with one Slipstream jump.

 

a good way to deal with this is to first decide how long the trip is going to take for a regular person. THen the difficulty of the Slipstream jump. For each point the roll is made by the time to get there takes one less time period on the Time Chart(the one that is used for everything in hero).

[Christopher]

Maybe the movement isn't a function of the Drive at all. Maybe the movement is part of Travling through an alternative dimension (the Slipstream)?

So Andromeda Slipstream might be closer to Hyperspace in Babylon 5 or Warpspace in Warhammer 40k, except you can never just "stand still" in Slipstream.

 

If so:

EDM (to the Slipstream Dimension, Single point corresponding to position in current dimension)

 

From what little we saw about Slipstream I do not think a good pilot is actually able to go faster. Nor do I think he can go farther. Slipstream travel seems to be mostly travelling between the jumppoints, with short times in Slipstream.

I think that there are X Routes in the universe and some are just to hard for a big ship to take (high Size penality on piloting rolls). And some might be impossible to travel at all.

So knowing of a more direct route and being able to travers it savely could be what makes a good pilot.

 

Note that a Single Skill roll might be insuficcient to properly convey this (and make the whole thing fun for the player of the pilot). This is a common issue with Non-combat activities in the Hero System, that might need some work to overcome:

Point 5 here: http://www.herogames.com/forums/index.php?/topic/87378-translating-characters-from-fiction-and-the-secret-of-having-fun-in-roleplaying/&do=findComment&comment=2312223

[clsage]

Some clarification on the Slipstream travel method from the show can be found here:

 

http://andromeda.wikia.com/wiki/Slipstream

 

Some of the more relevant details from the article (emphasis added):

 

"... One interesting thing about moving through the slipstream is that travel time between points has very little to do with the distance actually traveled. If a pilot is lucky, and the stream unfolds just right, the ship could transit between galaxies in minutes. But put an unlucky pilot at the helm and the same trip could take weeks or even months.

Luckily for the cause of interstellar commerce and communication, the more frequently a certain path is traveled, the faster, easier and more predictable the journey becomes. As a result, frequently-traveled routes between major Systems Commonwealth worlds, Tarn-Vedra to San-Ska-Re, are safe and convenient.

At an intersection of pathways in slipstream space, both paths manifest the potentiality of being correct and incorrect. It's only when the pilot chooses a specific direction that this potentiality collapses and one path becomes right, and the other wrong. For reasons still not completely understood, organic beings tend to choose the correct paths, or more precisely, the very act of choosing makes the path they have chosen the correct one. ..."

 

After some consideration, it does make sense to consider the use of EDM rather than FTL for this build, given that (much like what we see in Babylon 5 or Earth: Final Conflict) the travel takes place within a unique dimension.....

 

Thanks for everyones input so far...it's given me several things to consider.

 

-Carl-

[Tasha]

Remember that this is Hero you are talking about. Don't concentrate so much about what the power IS in the narration. What is important is what it DOES. It is still FTL movement because it moves the ship across space at faster than Light speeds.

Ok Slipstream drives are basically Hyperspace drives with a neat name and a cool special effect. I don't remember Slipstream being dangerous like B5's Hyperspace is. So modeling "safe" Hyperspace uses Teleportation using Megascale (over +4.5 in Advantage to get into the lightyears= Hex range). Assume that most trips take a Week. Though I don't see how you could do that without shifts of Slipstream Pilots working the controls. Again Using Slipstream Navigation(Ego Based) skill. Making a roll = 1 week, Every number you miss the Nav roll by the time in transit moves one step up the Time chart (toward more time), (that way someone with an 8- chance can still navigate just slowly). Every point you make your roll by moves the time chart in your direction 1 place for every 2 you make your roll by. That would model why Beka Valentine can Navigate ships in Minutes, and the sclubs take far longer. You can even give penalties to the roll for places way off the beaten path.

[Tasha]

BTW I based the Hyperspace Drive build on Star Hero 6e's write up (I am sure that it's identical to 5e's Star Hero).

[Christopher]

Okay, read the aricle now.

 

Remember that this is Hero you are talking about. Don't concentrate so much about what the power IS in the narration. What is important is what it DOES. It is still FTL movement because it moves the ship across space at faster than Light speeds.

 

The other thing for EDM is:

The speed is unrelated to your ships drive. There is no way to travel slower or faster depending on what drive you have. The Maru, the Andromeda, and parts of the magog Worldship all travel at the same speed, as long as they have an equally good pilot.

[Tasha]

Of course we only have a Mega Structure of a Rosette orbiting a BlackHole, A beat up freighter, and a Huge Battleship to base our Assumptions on. It could be that a smaller ship with a large drive could travel though Slipspace faster. For the most part most Slipspace transits on the show happened in minutes. Which is really good as flying though Slipspace would get tiring very quickly.

[dmjalund]

FTL + extra levels of FTL requires a skill roll - as part of the vehicle. The pilot must provide the skill roll

[Greywind]

Piloting Skill Roll. The Margin of Success/Failure modifies the inherent, baseline time requirement for the ship's EDM power.

[Tasha]

Oh and the System's Commonwealth is described as encompassing more than one GALAXY. So the FTL drive is actually insanely fast.

[Christopher]

Oh and the System's Commonwealth is described as encompassing more than one GALAXY. So the FTL drive is actually insanely fast.

Not entirely right. It can be insanely fast, it does not have to be:

"... One interesting thing about moving through the slipstream is that travel time between points has very little to do with the distance actually traveled. If a pilot is lucky, and the stream unfolds just right, the ship could transit between galaxies in minutes. But put an unlucky pilot at the helm and the same trip could take weeks or even months.

Luckily for the cause of interstellar commerce and communication, the more frequently a certain path is traveled, the faster, easier and more predictable the journey becomes.

[Tasha]

Not entirely right. It can be insanely fast, it does not have to be:

"... One interesting thing about moving through the slipstream is that travel time between points has very little to do with the distance actually traveled. If a pilot is lucky, and the stream unfolds just right, the ship could transit between galaxies in minutes. But put an unlucky pilot at the helm and the same trip could take weeks or even months.

Luckily for the cause of interstellar commerce and communication, the more frequently a certain path is traveled, the faster, easier and more predictable the journey becomes.

OK you are now just arguing for argument's sake.

 

A Galaxy is what 75-150k light years across. Not to mention the space between 2 Galaxies not going though a merger. This means that the form of FTL is Incredibly fast. It doesn't matter if they are using wormholes, Warp Drive, Transiting someone's freaking plumbing. Ships in the Andromeda Universe can traverse 150,000 Light years in a matter of hours or days. That's so fast it's boggles the mind.

 

Oh and for speed. it doesn't matter that it can go slow. Racing cars can go slow too, we only really care how FAST they can travel.

 

BTW I DO understand how Slipstream works. I am a HUGE Andromeda fan. I also double checked my facts about Slipstream BEFORE i started to post.

[clsage]

 

For the most part most Slipspace transits on the show happened in minutes. Which is really good as flying though Slipspace would get tiring very quickly.

Indeed...Recall the episode where Beka convinces the crew to follow a map of a route to Tarn-Vedra (episode title "It Makes A Lovely Light"). In that episode Beka flies multiple (~10) jumps over a (as I recall it) 48 hour period. She becomes so exhausted  that Dylan orders her to bed...And she resorts to using the drug Flash to keep going....

 

-Carl-

 

EDITED: To correct episode info and related....

 

Tyr: No one's reached Tarn Vedra in 300 years, and better pilots than you have died trying.

Beka: There are no better pilots than me.

[Christopher]

OK you are now just arguing for argument's sake.

 

A Galaxy is what 75-150k light years across. Not to mention the space between 2 Galaxies not going though a merger. This means that the form of FTL is Incredibly fast. It doesn't matter if they are using wormholes, Warp Drive, Transiting someone's freaking plumbing. Ships in the Andromeda Universe can traverse 150,000 Light years in a matter of hours or days. That's so fast it's boggles the mind.

 

Oh and for speed. it doesn't matter that it can go slow. Racing cars can go slow too, we only really care how FAST they can travel.

 

BTW I DO understand how Slipstream works. I am a HUGE Andromeda fan. I also double checked my facts about Slipstream BEFORE i started to post.

I have no idea why you feel attacked there.

 

Yes, Adromeda FTL is quite fast as compared to say Star Trek FTL. It has to be. At the scale of the Commonwealth (3 Galaxies + the one the magog come from) it has to have a potential high speed along some routes. Especially as there is no way to communicate other then sending a courier with a ship.

But the travel speed seems to be never a constant. Important factors are how often the line is used and how skilled/lucky the pilot is (with AI's being the lowest end of the line). The same travel can take minutes or months.

 

Indeed...Recall the episode where Beka convinces the crew to follow a map of a route to Tarn-Vedra (episode title "It Makes A Lovely Light"). In that episode Beka flies multiple (~10) jumps over a (as I recall it) 48 hour period. She becomes so exhausted  that Dylan orders her to bed...And she resorts to using the drug Flash to keep going....

Honestly I did not understand her motivation there. Why not simply rest?

There doesn't seems to be any limitation how much you can rest between jumps. And routes do not get "bad" if you wait to long (otherwise the text description would not have stayed good for 300 years). Near as I can tell Slipstream does not even cost fuel or has any noticedable wear on the hardware (Adromedas AI once spend 18 months in one jump between galaxies). And there was half a dozen other people that could have taken shifts at the joysticks (all of whom have slipjumped with the Maru or Andromeda at some point).

So why take drugs and comandeer the ship? And why totally abandon the search after that episode? It seems to make no sense other then "the writer said so".

 

It should also been noted that those routes were (by definition) rarely traveled. So it weren't exactly "5-minute-jumps" each. More like 2-6 Hour jumps. (one way to look at it: 48 hours of travelling and only 10 jumps over that time is slow going).

Most of the times Sliptravelling seemed not any more tyring then driving a car in the city.* Most of the time the pilot was talking with the rest of the bridge crew during the slipjump.

So I don't think it is in any way tiring to pilot a slipjump.

 

 

*Propably less. If you miss a decision while driving a car in the city you hit other cars. Or pedestrians. If you miss a decision (or don't make it timely enough) in Slipstream all you hit is bit more travel time.

[clsage]

And there was half a dozen other people that could have taken shifts at the joysticks (all of whom have slipjumped with the Maru or Andromeda at some point).

So why take drugs and commandeer the ship?

 

I believe that, in addition to the 'because that's the way the author/GM said so' reason(s), and Beka's somewhat obsessive and/or compulsive personality, it is answered in part within the quote I posted in another message:

 

Tyr: No one's reached Tarn Vedra in 300 years, and better pilots than you have died trying.

Beka: There are no better pilots than me.

 

Beka is the best pilot on-board the Andromeda. Period. That is why, in most general instances, she is at the Slipspace controls of the Andromeda, rather than Harper or Tyr or....To mix franchises (though still Roddenberry) she is the equal of Mr Sulu on the Enterprise (to paraphrase Admiral Kirk near the top of ST II: The Wrath of Kahn - "Well I for one am glad to have you at the helm for six weeks - I don't think these kids can steer.")

 

So, if they intend to make the trip, she and she alone will need to be at the helm.

 

To use a modern tech analogy: Mr A learns to fly a Cessna. A Cessna is a plane. Mr A can fly a plane. The F-35 is a plane. So Mr A should be able to fly nape of the Earth flight and avoid anti-aircraft.....?? No. It requires a 'top gun'. And Beka serves that role.

 

Yes. That is a bit hyperbolic. However I feel that it lays out the argument clearly.

 

Thanks again for everyone's input.

 

-Carl-

 

EDITED: With thanks to Bigbywolfe, for pointing out my ST film order error....

[bigbywolfe]

I believe that, in addition to the 'because that's the way the author/GM said so' reason(s), and Beka's somewhat obsessive and/or compulsive personality, it is answered in part within the quote I posted in another message:

 

Tyr: No one's reached Tarn Vedra in 300 years, and better pilots than you have died trying.

Beka: There are no better pilots than me.

 

Beka is the best pilot on-board the Andromeda. Period. That is why, in most general instances, she is at the Slipspace controls of the Andromeda, rather than Harper or Tyr or....To mix franchises (though still Roddenberry) she is the equal of Mr Sulu on the Enterprise (to paraphrase Admiral Kirk near the top of ST III: The Wrath of Kahn - "Well I for one am glad to have you at the helm for six weeks - I don't think these kids can steer.")

 

So, if they intend to make the trip, she and she alone will need to be at the helm.

 

To use a modern tech analogy: Mr A learns to fly a Cessna. A Cessna is a plane. Mr A can fly a plane. The F-35 is a plane. So Mr A should be able to fly nape of the Earth flight and avoid anti-aircraft.....?? No. It requires a 'top gun'. And Beka serves that role.

 

Yes. That is a bit hyperbolic. However I feel that it lays out the argument clearly.

 

Thanks again for everyone's input.

 

-Carl-

None of which explains why she didn't just rest a day between jumps, why people "died trying" to reach the place, or why they never tried to get there again.  Also, Wrath of Khan is Star Trek II, III is the Search for Spock.