How To Build (5th Edition): Probability Fugue

[clsage]

While this might have application to other genres (Dark Champions: The Animated Series, Monster Hunter International, etc) I'm posting it here as I have thoughts of applying it to a 'street level' superhero.

 

Also, please note that I am working from/with 5th Edition(Revised).  Thanks.....

 

Disclaimers out of the way, here is what I am looking for/considering:

 

I was inspired by a recent viewing of the 2007 film Next, in which Nicholas Cage portrays a man with limited precognition. In one scene (the scene I am interested in modelling) he uses his short term precog as a way of 'scouting out' a safe route through a building held by terrorists. This is done by him running a scenario of 'what would happen if I went here/what would I find if I went here' by standing still, eyes closed and seeing the results in his mind. He sends out multiple versions of his 'future self' as tests and, by seeing the results, discovers the path needed.

 

I am thinking that this is, at its core, a modified sort of Danger Sense, with the Requires A Skill Roll and Concentrate limitations, as he has to stop, focus, and consider. I am considering adding a linked form of either N-Ray Vision or Spatial Awareness that would only function if the Danger Sense roll was made.

 

The reason I call it a Probability Fugue is that, unlike the precognition depicted in the source material, the SFX for the power is that the character would have involves less psychic ability and more observational calculations. It is the multiple 'voices' of the calculations that lets the character work things out.

 

While I am pretty sure that the version of Danger Sense described above would work, I'd appreciate any input/feed-back/suggestions.

 

Thanks!

 

 

[The Weapon]

I think it is also invisibility (takes extra time, only vs. people who could have been fooled by a successful stealth roll).

It could also be a Detect (Safe Route).

[Hyper-Man]

This is how I built a similar ability for my starting version of The Flash using 6e rules.

 

From his Speed Force Powers VPP

 

8) Superspeed Mind: Precognitive Clairsentience (Sight Group), Increased Arc Of Perception (360 Degrees), Rapid: x10, Costs Endurance Only To Activate (+1/4) (60 Active Points); Precognition/Retrocognition Only (-1), Time Modifiers (-1/2), Blackout (-1/2), No Range (-1/2) Real Cost: 16

 

I'm pretty sure that most if not all of this can be built with 5er.

[Soleil Noir]

Sounds like Precognitive Clairsentience to me, maybe with the "Rapid" Sensory Adder, to allow him to trace multiple alternate pathways at once.  Building it as Danger Sense would only allow him to detect to direct threats to his person, whereas the power as described would allow him to see a lot more (e.g.; the results of a horse race that he wants to bet on).

[Tasha]

I think discussions like this show the fundamental core to all power builds. The First question that we must answer to how to build Probabilty Fugue is: What does probability Fugue do for the character. Not how do you use powers to build what you see on the screen. What you see on the screen is the process of the power working not what it does for the character.

 

In this case it allows the Character to make the best choice in any given circumstance. It appears that while it takes hours for us the audience to see him exploring the paths he could go down. It appears instantaneous to those people beside him "watching" him use the power. If it just allows him to know when not to stick his head out etc. Probably the best way to simulate the power is though Overall Levels. That will allow the player to choose an outcome and then have a better chance of succeeding. IMHO 3-4 Overall levels would be the best way to simulate his power.

You may want to include some Clairsentence with Precognition as flavor, but the Overall levels will help out with most cirumstances.

[Tasha]

BTW GM's really hate Precognition. It looks great on the screen, but to ask a GM to describe every instance of how something could fall out is intimidating and a waste of GM time. Precognition (and Retrocognition) also tend to trivialize all investigative storylines. Which is another reason that GM's dislike those powers.

[Ockham's Spoon]

I'm with Tasha on this one.  Overall levels are the best way to reflect this ability, especially if the character applies it to a wide variety of situations and skills.  I have used this exact power build for several characters with some kind of psychic powers to reflect limited precognition and it works well to provide the right flavor without using the Precognition power which can be a headache for the GM.

[LouGoncey]

If you think GMs hate precognition, wait until my suggestion: Extra Dimensional Movement - Time Travel

 

He can only go back a minute.  It has Concentration on it -- so if he gets shot he cannot use it.

 

(I am new to Hero and I play 6e, so I am spitballing here.)

 

Sounds like one of those powers that Hero can do but it would be a pain in the ass to deal with -- I know I wouldn't allow it as a GM.

[LouGoncey]

Calling it a Probability Fugue is not quite right -- it is a limited form of time travel.  At least that is what it appeared to be in NEXT.  He would walk up to a girl (Biel) and ask her out.  When it didn't work he would ask her out again  And again.  And again.  Until he found the right way to ask her out.

[Cassandra]

Keep it simple.

 

Use N-Ray Vision to simulate his ability to see what's in the area (Doesn't work in Tachyon fields).

 

Armor and additional DEX that activate only when he makes a Danger Sense roll to simulate his ability to anticipate danger.

 

You need to buy Danger Sense out of combat and as a Sense of course.

 

 

Disadvantages

 

Distinctive Features: Looks and acts like Nicholas Cage (Concealed/Major Reaction)

[Tasha]

Calling it a Probability Fugue is not quite right -- it is a limited form of time travel.  At least that is what it appeared to be in NEXT.  He would walk up to a girl (Biel) and ask her out.  When it didn't work he would ask her out again  And again.  And again.  Until he found the right way to ask her out.

 

3 -4 overall levels on your Charm Skill will get her to say "Yes". How the power worked is special effect and is in your imagination.

 

I know that the Overall levels don't look as sexy as Time Travel and the other complicated constructs, but IMHO it models the effect of what happens when he is successful.

 

Cassandra does make a great point that I was thinking about. For this set of powers to be complete they probably have out of combat Danger Sense bought up to a fairly high roll.

[Cassandra]

Calling it a Probability Fugue is not quite right -- it is a limited form of time travel.  At least that is what it appeared to be in NEXT.  He would walk up to a girl (Biel) and ask her out.  When it didn't work he would ask her out again  And again.  And again.  Until he found the right way to ask her out.

 

Telepathy?

[Tasha]

The idea here is to "Reason from Effect"

So he can try every combination of circumstances until he does the right thing
He can never be surprised
 

1) 4 Overall levels will boost most 12- skills to a 16- or less which means that it's like a 90+% chance of success
2) those same 4 levels can be applied to OCV or DCV which makes it very hard to hit the Character or hard for them to miss
3) Danger Sense out of Combat with pretty much every adder turned on and on a high roll means that the Character is never surprised.
4) Combat luck to simulate not being there when the bullet(s) arrive.

[Cassandra]

The idea here is to "Reason from Effect"

 

So he can try every combination of circumstances until he does the right thing

He can never be surprised

 

1) 4 Overall levels will boost most 12- skills to a 16- or less which means that it's like a 90+% chance of success

2) those same 4 levels can be applied to OCV or DCV which makes it very hard to hit the Character or hard for them to miss

3) Danger Sense out of Combat with pretty much every adder turned on and on a high roll means that the Character is never surprised.

 

 

If it's a sure thing that he's never surprised just give him extra Armor and Knockback Resistance to simulate his ability to avoid damage.

 

KS: What's going to happen 18- is a possibility, but he might have a Dr. Manhattan like limitation in that he can't' do anything about it.

[LouGoncey]

I was coming back to post but Tasha beat me to it -- Overall Skill Levels.  I had to think about it. Nick Cage does do 'limited time travel' in the movie, but to us playing and running the game, he just gets overall skill levels.

 

I am still a noob at Hero...

[Greywind]

Does he do limited time travel? My impression, the way it was shown, it was only a long-term mental exercise for him, and they showed us how he saw it.

[Tasha]

Does he do limited time travel? My impression, the way it was shown, it was only a long-term mental exercise for him, and they showed us how he saw it.

 

It was very unclear. Though I got the idea that he could mentally explore a decision branch from a certain place replaying all of them until he finds the "right" one. It seems to be something that happens in 0 real time otherwise he might never have the chance to actually act. BTW the character probably also has Eidetic Memory to remember exactly what to say when the branches come up IRL.

 

This is one character type that almost writes itself when it comes to Powers and Talents.

[Cassandra]

Cramming would be useful, but you'd have to reduce the time involved.  This would simulate his ability to do things he's experience in other timelines.

[massey]

Use a combination of those powers to get the results you want.  Overall skill levels are excellent, and will do most of what you need.  The special effect is not that he's good at a particular thing, it's that he gets infinite do-overs.  Now sometimes he's just not going to be successful at something.  I don't care how many possible futures I analyze, I'm not going to be able to scale the Empire State Building with my bare hands.

 

I'd give him a very broad Detect.  Detect stuff, 360 degrees, telescopic, N-Ray, good perception bonus.  He stands there and makes a perception roll, goes through a million possible futures, and then remembers where he parked or left his car keys.

 

Add some combat luck and you're golden.

 

I wouldn't give him Danger Sense unless it's always on.  If he's not purposefully looking into the future, say if he's just eating a sandwich, then it shouldn't warn him.

[Christopher]

I think discussions like this show the fundamental core to all power builds. The First question that we must answer to how to build Probabilty Fugue is: What does probability Fugue do for the character. Not how do you use powers to build what you see on the screen. What you see on the screen is the process of the power working not what it does for the character.

 

In this case it allows the Character to make the best choice in any given circumstance. It appears that while it takes hours for us the audience to see him exploring the paths he could go down. It appears instantaneous to those people beside him "watching" him use the power. If it just allows him to know when not to stick his head out etc. Probably the best way to simulate the power is though Overall Levels.

I agree totally that OSL are propably the best way to go here.

 

The idea here is to "Reason from Effect"

 

So he can try every combination of circumstances until he does the right thing

He can never be surprised

 

1) 4 Overall levels will boost most 12- skills to a 16- or less which means that it's like a 90+% chance of success

2) those same 4 levels can be applied to OCV or DCV which makes it very hard to hit the Character or hard for them to miss

3) Danger Sense out of Combat with pretty much every adder turned on and on a high roll means that the Character is never surprised.

4) Combat luck to simulate not being there when the bullet(s) arrive.

To 2) he can also boost damage with it, simulating "hitting the guy just the right way to keep him knocked out".

5) Wasn't there a scene where he fought dozens of mooks? I would give him Defense Maneuver (10) too. That makes his OSL put to DCV effectively persistent. It won't help him with surprise though (still needs danger sense for that, or maybe not).

6) Skill selection can be very important too. He would be good in unexpected areas. Tactics & Teamwork for example. But afaik his ability had a timeframe limit - he could not see clearly into the far future.

 

Does he do limited time travel? My impression, the way it was shown, it was only a long-term mental exercise for him, and they showed us how he saw it.

I only watched the trailers. On the other side of a Translation. But I got the same impression - mental exploration of decision trees and how the world would act/react to his actions. With timeframe limit.

 

Here is a scene from the Film:

 

And here some Clips from it:

[Greywind]

I've seen the movie, which is why I think it's more in line with the mental exercise than actual time travel/reset button.

[Tasha]

I saw the movie as well. You could interpret what is going on in a couple of ways. From a play perspective, it's all comes down to his using his talent to do the right things at the right time. Whether he is just mentally following the timeline forwards and backward or actually moving physically in time will make no difference to what happens IG. Unless the Player wants to put an extra dimensional "wait a second, lets do that again" power which most GM's are going to say no to unless it's really limited (ie one time a day, takes all of the PC's end to use, Can only revisit that specific instance once etc)

[Andrew_A]

Very simple. Precognition Fugue VPP, only skills. When he's trying to avoid terrorists? That's 33 points of Tactics. Impressing a woman? 25 points worth of Seduction with a few points left over for Martial Arts. Playing blackjack? That's an obscenely high gambling roll. And so on. And so on. To complement the VPP, he has Overall Skill Levels.

 

The reason I suggest a VPP with skills is that it's the simplest method that doesn't involve Precog Claresentience. The way I see it, he can simulate having various skills by running through scenarios in his head. He's not obviously superhuman. He just looks lucky or exceptionally talented and the only skills he can have are ones that involve running scenarios through his head. For example, he doesn't know anything about Nuclear Physics (SS:Nuclear Physics), but he could disarm a nuclear bomb (Demolitions) by choosing the future where he pulls the right wire.

[Hyper-Man]

I think what everyone is really debating is how to functionally GM such a character ability.  I get the desire to derive an easier mechanic like the Skill VPP approach but that just seems so vanilla.  If the player wants to make this a true special ability I would go with with precog. 

 

Having a PC with a brute force predictive Precog (vs. more traditional psychic/time travel based) get certain number of in game 'do-overs' is tough but should be thought of as a thought experiment.  The other players at the table would need to buy in to the concept that in some cases their actions will get erased in the 'do-over' and that their characters will not get the direct in-game knowledge from each 'predicted future'.  It would take a good group of roleplayers to pull off and I would imagine that no more than 1 long term reset be allowed per adventure with possibly 1-3 shorter ones of a minute or less with a good Precog roll. 

 

The nice thing about this being based on predictive calculations (per the OP and the similar ability of the current version of Flash in the comics) is that it's only as good as the information the characters begin with.  They can't predict something they can't sense.  They can't use this version to diffuse a nuclear bomb like the movie example.  They CAN see potential 'butterfly effect' consequences of certain actions though.  It's a subtle difference but definitely more limited than a traditional psychic precog and worth roleplaying out imo.  I would definitely require the ability to be consciously activated by the player instead of being passively available all the time. Complimentary Overall Skill Levels could also be purchased with RSR based on the Precog roll.  The character could also have limited but active Danger Sense ability too. 

 

It all really boils down to whether the GM and other players are willing to deal with a character like this in their game as some of the aspects of the concept are typically better suited to solo storytelling.