250 vs 350 5E Characters

[Ninja-Bear]

Yeah you can build beginning Superman on 250, but he's going to spend the first 10 years of his career fighting bank robbers and no one else has any super powers. He's the only guy in the world built on more than 100 points. Probably doesn't fit very well into your Champions campaign world.

 

Not quite understanding your point. In the Big Blue Book (Champions 4th), @ 250 pt you can fight other 250 pt. supers such as Howler, Mindlock, Chesire Cat, Shrinker, Orge, Pulsar, Icicle, Dragonfly and Powerhouse. There are plenty of super vilians for Superman to fight not just normals.

[massey]

Not quite understanding your point. In the Big Blue Book (Champions 4th), @ 250 pt you can fight other 250 pt. supers such as Howler, Mindlock, Chesire Cat, Shrinker, Orge, Pulsar, Icicle, Dragonfly and Powerhouse. There are plenty of super vilians for Superman to fight not just normals.

 

Yes, but what I'm saying is that Superman didn't fight anyone with super-powers for years and years.  He fought nazis, saboteurs, mobsters, street thugs, and the occasional mad scientist.  In Lex Luthor's first appearance he had a helicopter and some goons.  1938 Superman was still the most powerful hero on the planet.  In his own comics he was basically the only guy with super-powers.

 

I doubt that when someone says "I want to play Superman", they expect to be handed a character who can't fly and doesn't have x-ray vision.  I also believe it's disingenuous to hand them a character who is going to get beaten up by Ogre and pretend that you've given them what they wanted.

 

I guess you could also give them a character sheet and say they're Post-Crisis Superman as a teenager, when his powers didn't develop until he was grown.  You could also give the player Superman after he was exposed to gold kryptonite or Superman who lives on a red sun world.

 

At the end of the day, none of these things are giving the player the "Superman experience".

[Grailknight]

I think the point is twofold:

 

You can build starting characters on 250 points with no issues, we have 4 game editions worth of history that shows that. The point increase to 350 was more a change to allow more skills and background to starting characters than a need to fix a problem in play. As long as the campaign stays internally consistent, you'll be fine.

 

You can build 250 point versions of iconic characters and capture the basic essence but here you run into the problem of preconceptions. The characters fall short of their source material capabilities in many ways. Villains can be written up at the same relative power. My breaking point is their interaction with the general environment.

 

It's fine for Defender to be stunned(or KO'd by surprise) if he's hit by a speeding car(13-14 DC according to RAW) , we have no expectations. If that happens to Superman, we start looking for magic or kryptonite.  The same holds true for punching out of bank vaults or other armored doors. Defender can take a turn or multiple haymakers but I'd argue that there are more examples of Superman doing this with casual strength than major effort. 

[Cassandra]

I think the point is twofold:

 

You can build starting characters on 250 points with no issues, we have 4 game editions worth of history that shows that. The point increase to 350 was more a change to allow more skills and background to starting characters than a need to fix a problem in play. As long as the campaign stays internally consistent, you'll be fine.

 

You can build 250 point versions of iconic characters and capture the basic essence but here you run into the problem of preconceptions. The characters fall short of their source material capabilities in many ways. Villains can be written up at the same relative power. My breaking point is their interaction with the general environment.

 

It's fine for Defender to be stunned(or KO'd by surprise) if he's hit by a speeding car(13-14 DC according to RAW) , we have no expectations. If that happens to Superman, we start looking for magic or kryptonite.  The same holds true for punching out of bank vaults or other armored doors. Defender can take a turn or multiple haymakers but I'd argue that there are more examples of Superman doing this with casual strength than major effort. 

 

Depends on the venue.  Superman got knocked around a lot in the Justice League TV show.  

 

My template on action between well known superheroes is Injustice Gods Among Us where even Superman can be fought by Catwoman.

[Ninja-Bear]

Massey I agree that defining the experience is important. And naturally depending on expectations 250 pts can be enough or not. 350 pts can be enough or not. Suggested campaign limits may have to be broken. (Superman from Superfriends I imagine would be expensive. Polishing a whole moon ro be reflective in a few seconds-how many points for that?)

[Cassandra]

Massey I agree that defining the experience is important. And naturally depending on expectations 250 pts can be enough or not. 350 pts can be enough or not. Suggested campaign limits may have to be broken. (Superman from Superfriends I imagine would be expensive. Polishing a whole moon ro be reflective in a few seconds-how many points for that?)

 

Not Necessarily.  

 

A VPP could be used to simulate a wide variety of powers.  

 

So could EB Variable Special Effects [Any]

[Ninja-Bear]

Not Necessarily.

 

A VPP could be used to simulate a wide variety of powers.

 

So could EB Variable Special Effects [Any]

Im sure but how big of a VPP and would the cost fit in "standard" point caps? (I really don't know for sure).

[Grailknight]

Depends on the venue.  Superman got knocked around a lot in the Justice League TV show.  

 

My template on action between well known superheroes is Injustice Gods Among Us where even Superman can be fought by Catwoman.

 

I have no problem with Superman being knocked around by comparable villains, he's powerful but not invincible. 

 

But you never see him having a hard time vs Joker or Cheetah. And after the first two seasons, the fan feedback stopped them from Worfing him. He either fought a near equal, solo'ed away from the team or dealt with a catastrophe while the team fought around him. When he showed up and got serious it was over.

 

Using a video game as the basis for relative write-ups strikes me as the worst possible source material. The characters have to be equal or the game will be terrible. Sure they have all their powers, but they're scaled to the lowest common denominator. For example, Superman's Heat Vision will do maybe 1/8th of his opponent's health bar in the game. In the DCU and the DCAU, it's considered his most lethal attack. He took out Doomsday with it and made Darkseid recoil in pain. Everyone goes to extremes to avoid getting hit by it and Supergirl gets very stern lectures from everyone about her lack of restraint in using it. Any write-up should reflect the DCU and DCAU version more closely than a video game where Catwoman can beat Superman without kryptonite or magic.

[Ninja-Bear]

Grailknight if I understood the premise behind DC Heros (never played) they scaled that pnp game behind a concept that for a few seconds ecen Batman xould stand against Superman.

[Grailknight]

Upon reflection,

 

A video game is not a bad source if you want all your characters to be exactly equal to each other in combat.

 

This completely ignores the out of combat capabilities of each character but that's a campaign option and having starting characters be equally viable in combat is generally a good thing.

 

Where it fails is in depicting iconic characters and their observed capabilities.

 

On a bad day, Batman or Catwoman can be taken down by a SWAT team. That's in keeping with their power-sets in the source material.  Superman could be asleep in bed when the SWAT team breaks in and just ignore them because they can't even move him unless he allows it.

 

Established Iconics are not equal in capability, otherwise Doomsday would have been taken out long before Superman showed up, Batman would fight Ares  and  Wonder Woman would have her hands full facing Bane.

[Grailknight]

Grailknight if I understood the premise behind DC Heros (never played) they scaled that pnp game behind a concept that for a few seconds ecen Batman xould stand against Superman.

 

Agreed. It's the only way to do a one on one fighting video game. It would suck as a video game if the playable characters were as unbalanced in combat capabilities as the source material.

[Cassandra]

I have no problem with Superman being knocked around by comparable villains, he's powerful but not invincible. 

 

But you never see him having a hard time vs Joker or Cheetah. And after the first two seasons, the fan feedback stopped them from Worfing him. He either fought a near equal, solo'ed away from the team or dealt with a catastrophe while the team fought around him. When he showed up and got serious it was over.

 

Using a video game as the basis for relative write-ups strikes me as the worst possible source material. The characters have to be equal or the game will be terrible. Sure they have all their powers, but they're scaled to the lowest common denominator. For example, Superman's Heat Vision will do maybe 1/8th of his opponent's health bar in the game. In the DCU and the DCAU, it's considered his most lethal attack. He took out Doomsday with it and made Darkseid recoil in pain. Everyone goes to extremes to avoid getting hit by it and Supergirl gets very stern lectures from everyone about her lack of restraint in using it. Any write-up should reflect the DCU and DCAU version more closely than a video game where Catwoman can beat Superman without kryptonite or magic.

 

Joker took down Superman in the Batman/Superman World's Finest Movie.

[Cassandra]

Question:  Who can take out Wonder Woman?

[Hyper-Man]

Joker took down Superman in the Batman/Superman World's Finest Movie.

 

Yeah, But he did it with the biggest single hunk of Kryptonite to ever exist in the DCUA.

[Hyper-Man]

Question:  Who can take out Wonder Woman?

 

Superman, Flash, GL, Martian Manhunter.  It all depends on what you mean by 'take out'.  If they are sufficiently mind controlled, she's screwed (ex: Maxwell Lord & Superman).  If they are using lethal attacks she will eventually be overwhelmed.

[Greywind]

Question:  Who can take out Wonder Woman?

 

Bruce Wayne, but they opted for dinner at the mansion.

[Cassandra]

Yeah, But he did it with the biggest single hunk of Kryptonite to ever exist in the DCUA.

 

Actually it was half a dragon the size of the Brady Bunch Horse Statue.

[Cassandra]

Questions

 

How many points does Superman need to be built on?

 

What are his powers and skills?

 

Does Green Kryptonite and/or Red Solar Radiation take away those powers?

[massey]

Questions

 

How many points does Superman need to be built on?

 

What are his powers and skills?

 

Does Green Kryptonite and/or Red Solar Radiation take away those powers?

 

Can't say for sure.  Depends upon the standards of the campaign, what the GM makes you pay for, which Superman source material you're using, and how cheesy you want to get with his power construction.

 

I will say, I tinkered around with a writeup last night where I squeezed a Superman-style character into 350.  I'll post the hero designer file when I get back home, but it made the rules cry   You should probably not use what can be squeezed out of an abusive power construction when you decide how many points a given character should be.

 

Are you paying for the Fortress of Solitude?  Are you using the official Champions versions of nuclear bombs?

 

Ideally, you'd select Superman from a particular era, read all the issues from that time frame, and write him up.  So you could take late-80s John Byrne Superman, or late 90s Grant Morrison JLA Superman, or new 52 Superman.  Each of those will probably have small differences in how they operate.  Are you trying to just do a generic writeup, that covers the character as a concept rather than from any specific period?  Are you ignoring certain elements of the background?  Remember that certain members of the X-Men travelled through the Seige Perilous, which rendered them permanently invisible to machines.  Most writers don't seem to remember that, and I never see anyone include it in a character writeup.

[Hyper-Man]

My 6e 400 point version is essentially a version of his first costumed appearance in Superman:TAS.  It could easily be adapted to the Man of Steel movie as well.  Several of the extra versions of various VPP slots should probably be designated as off limits for early adventures.  Mostly, they are included to show what this version's upper limits are to begin with.

[massey]

I don't know how to format this right and I don't know how to upload files.  Hopefully this will be clear enough to understand.

 

Helios

aka Bill Bannister

 

Val Char Cost

20/100/150 STR 10

12/38 DEX 6

15/55 CON 10

10/30 BODY 0

18 INT 8

10/30 EGO 0

10/50 PRE 0

14 COM 2

 

5/45 PD 1

5/45 ED 2

2/10 SPD 0

8/48 REC 2

30/190 END 0

30/110 STUN 2

 

6"/46" RUN 0

2"/42" SWIM 0

4"/60" LEAP 0

 

Characteristics Cost: 43

 

Cost Power

225 Helio-X Treatment: Aid 5d6, Can Add Maximum Of 80 Points, Delayed Return Rate (points return at the rate of 5 per Hour; +1), all super powers simultaneously (+2), Multiple Special Effects (All special effects simultaneously; +2) (450 Active Points); Self Only (-1/2), Can only charge in direct yellow sunlight (-1/4), Only 1/2 effect to Body, Ego, Pre, Swim, Senses, Leaping, Extra Effort Str (-1/4)

 

5 Radio Earbud: Radio Perception/Transmission (Radio Group) (10 Active Points); IIF Fragile (-1/2), Activation Roll 14- (Can you hear me now?; -1/2)

 

9 Multipower, 11-point reserve,  (11 Active Points); all slots Only In Heroic Identity (-1/4)

1u 1)  Extra Effort: +10 STR (10 Active Points); No Figured Characteristics (-1/2), Increased Endurance Cost (x2 END; -1/2), Only In Heroic Identity (-1/4)

1u 2)  Killing Attack - Ranged 1/2d6 (10 Active Points); No Knockback (-1/4), Only In Heroic Identity (-1/4)

1u 3)  Killing Attack - Ranged 1 point, Indirect (Same origin, always fired away from attacker; +1/4), Invisible to Nromal Sight (+1/4), Penetrating (+1/2) (10 Active Points); No Knockback (-1/4), Only In Heroic Identity (-1/4)

1u 4)  Telekinesis (7 STR) (11 Active Points); Only In Heroic Identity (-1/4)

1u 5)  Dispel 3d6, any fire power one at a time (+1/4) (11 Active Points); Only In Heroic Identity (-1/4)

1u 6)  Energy Blast 1d6, Double Knockback (+3/4) (9 Active Points); Only In Heroic Identity (-1/4)

[Notes: Full charge provides:

+50 Str,

6D6 RKA,

3D6-1 Indirect RKA,

60 Str TK,

24D6 Dispel,

10D6 x2 KB EB]

 

Helio-X Treatment, all slots Only In Heroic Identity (-1/4)

2 1)  Damage Resistance (2 PD/2 ED); Only In Heroic Identity (-1/4)

2 2)  Knockback Resistance -1"; Only In Heroic Identity (-1/4)

2 3)  +1 PER with all Sense Groups (3 Active Points); Only In Heroic Identity (-1/4)

8 4)  N-Ray Perception (Sight Group) (10 Active Points); Only In Heroic Identity (-1/4)

5 5)  +2 versus Range Modifier for Hearing Group and Sight Group (6 Active Points); Only In Heroic Identity (-1/4)

[Notes: Full charge provides:

42/42 Damage Resistance,

21" Knockback Resistance,

+14 perception,

+27 vs range mods]

 

10 Helio-X Treatment: Multipower, 12-point reserve,  (12 Active Points); all slots Only In Heroic Identity (-1/4)

1u 1)  Flight 6" (12 Active Points); Only In Heroic Identity (-1/4)

1u 2)  Flight 2", MegaScale (1" = 10 km; +1/2), Can Be Scaled Down 1" = 1km (+1/4) (7 Active Points); Only In Heroic Identity (-1/4)

[Notes: Full charge provides:

46" Flight,

25" Flight Megascale 1"=10 km]

 

Helio-X Treatment (full charge)

0 1)  +80 STR (Calculated Aid Effects); No Figured Characteristics (-1/2)

0 2)  +26 DEX (Calculated Aid Effects); No Figured Characteristics (-1/2)

0 3)  +40 CON (Calculated Aid Effects); No Figured Characteristics (-1/2)

0 4)  +20 BODY (Calculated Aid Effects); No Figured Characteristics (-1/2)

0 5)  +20 EGO (Calculated Aid Effects)

0 6)  +40 PRE (Calculated Aid Effects)

0 7)  +40 PD (Calculated Aid Effects)

0 8)  +40 ED (Calculated Aid Effects)

0 9)  +8 SPD (Calculated Aid Effects)

0 10) +40 REC (Calculated Aid Effects)

0 11) +160 END (Calculated Aid Effects)

0 12) +80 STUN (Calculated Aid Effects)

0 13) Running +40" (6"/46" total), Calculated Aid Effects

0 14) Swimming +40" (2"/42" total) (Calculated Aid Effects)

0 15) Leaping +40" (4"/60" forward, 2"/30" upward) (Calculated Aid Effects)

0 16) Damage Resistance (40 PD/40 ED) (Calculated Aid Effects)

 

Powers Cost: 276

 

 

Cost Skill

3 Computer Programming 13-

3 Deduction 13-

3 Disguise 13-

3 Navigation 13-

3 Paramedics 13-

 

3 AK: Earth 13-

 

3 Scientist

2 1)  SS:  Biology 13- (3 Active Points)

2 2)  SS:  Chemistry 13- (3 Active Points)

2 3)  SS:  Electrical Engineering 13- (3 Active Points)

2 4)  SS:  Mechanical Engineering 13- (3 Active Points)

2 5)  SS:  Physics 13- (3 Active Points)

Skills Cost: 31

 

Total Character Cost: 350

 

 

----

 

The character begins with 20 Str, 12 Dex, 15 Con, 18 Int, 14 Com, and 5 PD and ED.  He also has a handful of skills.  This is his secret identity as Bill Bannister, mild mannered something-or-other.  His primary power is an Aid with +5 in Advantages.  This represents his ability to absorb solar energy.  All of his powers except his Aid are listed with the "only in hero ID" limitation.  This represents the fact that unless he actually absorbs solar radiation, these powers are not available.  Bill Bannister with no solar charge is a totally normal human.  Once he has absorbed enough solar radiation, his powers become active (usually a phase worth of the Aid is plenty).  The Aid affects every power he has, boosting most of his characteristics to superhuman levels.  Some of his powers (defenses, by rule, and other abilities as listed under the Aid) only receive half effect.  This is to try to place him square in the Superman power range on all his stats (I don't want him to have a 50 Ego or a 90 Pre).

 

Groups of powers, as well as his two multipowers, are listed with notes that say "full charge provides:" followed by a list of abilities.  This is merely a helpful list to show what the characters powers will be once the Aid has reached its maximum.  At the bottom of the power list is a large group of characteristics.  This was created in Hero Designer so that the stats would calculate properly and show up on the first page.

 

The only part of the writeup I am unsure of is the first slot of one of his multipowers.  I bought an additional +10 Str with increased end x2 ("Extra Effort Str").  His Strength already benefits from the Aid,  This is purchased separately to represent when Superman needs to lift mountains and push tectonic plates.  A GM could very well rule that this is not a separate power from his normal Str and thus can't be Aided twice.  I'd be fine with that.

 

So yes, Virginia, you can build Superman on 350 points.  But you shouldn't.

[massey]

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is how you kill a thread.

[Cassandra]

 

I don't know how to format this right and I don't know how to upload files.  Hopefully this will be clear enough to understand.

 

Helios

aka Bill Bannister

 

Val Char Cost

20/100/150 STR 10

12/38 DEX 6

15/55 CON 10

10/30 BODY 0

18 INT 8

10/30 EGO 0

10/50 PRE 0

14 COM 2

 

5/45 PD 1

5/45 ED 2

2/10 SPD 0

8/48 REC 2

30/190 END 0

30/110 STUN 2

 

6"/46" RUN 0

2"/42" SWIM 0

4"/60" LEAP 0

 

Characteristics Cost: 43

 

Cost Power

225 Helio-X Treatment: Aid 5d6, Can Add Maximum Of 80 Points, Delayed Return Rate (points return at the rate of 5 per Hour; +1), all super powers simultaneously (+2), Multiple Special Effects (All special effects simultaneously; +2) (450 Active Points); Self Only (-1/2), Can only charge in direct yellow sunlight (-1/4), Only 1/2 effect to Body, Ego, Pre, Swim, Senses, Leaping, Extra Effort Str (-1/4)

 

5 Radio Earbud: Radio Perception/Transmission (Radio Group) (10 Active Points); IIF Fragile (-1/2), Activation Roll 14- (Can you hear me now?; -1/2)

 

9 Multipower, 11-point reserve,  (11 Active Points); all slots Only In Heroic Identity (-1/4)

1u 1)  Extra Effort: +10 STR (10 Active Points); No Figured Characteristics (-1/2), Increased Endurance Cost (x2 END; -1/2), Only In Heroic Identity (-1/4)

1u 2)  Killing Attack - Ranged 1/2d6 (10 Active Points); No Knockback (-1/4), Only In Heroic Identity (-1/4)

1u 3)  Killing Attack - Ranged 1 point, Indirect (Same origin, always fired away from attacker; +1/4), Invisible to Nromal Sight (+1/4), Penetrating (+1/2) (10 Active Points); No Knockback (-1/4), Only In Heroic Identity (-1/4)

1u 4)  Telekinesis (7 STR) (11 Active Points); Only In Heroic Identity (-1/4)

1u 5)  Dispel 3d6, any fire power one at a time (+1/4) (11 Active Points); Only In Heroic Identity (-1/4)

1u 6)  Energy Blast 1d6, Double Knockback (+3/4) (9 Active Points); Only In Heroic Identity (-1/4)

[Notes: Full charge provides:

+50 Str,

6D6 RKA,

3D6-1 Indirect RKA,

60 Str TK,

24D6 Dispel,

10D6 x2 KB EB]

 

Helio-X Treatment, all slots Only In Heroic Identity (-1/4)

2 1)  Damage Resistance (2 PD/2 ED); Only In Heroic Identity (-1/4)

2 2)  Knockback Resistance -1"; Only In Heroic Identity (-1/4)

2 3)  +1 PER with all Sense Groups (3 Active Points); Only In Heroic Identity (-1/4)

8 4)  N-Ray Perception (Sight Group) (10 Active Points); Only In Heroic Identity (-1/4)

5 5)  +2 versus Range Modifier for Hearing Group and Sight Group (6 Active Points); Only In Heroic Identity (-1/4)

[Notes: Full charge provides:

42/42 Damage Resistance,

21" Knockback Resistance,

+14 perception,

+27 vs range mods]

 

10 Helio-X Treatment: Multipower, 12-point reserve,  (12 Active Points); all slots Only In Heroic Identity (-1/4)

1u 1)  Flight 6" (12 Active Points); Only In Heroic Identity (-1/4)

1u 2)  Flight 2", MegaScale (1" = 10 km; +1/2), Can Be Scaled Down 1" = 1km (+1/4) (7 Active Points); Only In Heroic Identity (-1/4)

[Notes: Full charge provides:

46" Flight,

25" Flight Megascale 1"=10 km]

 

Helio-X Treatment (full charge)

0 1)  +80 STR (Calculated Aid Effects); No Figured Characteristics (-1/2)

0 2)  +26 DEX (Calculated Aid Effects); No Figured Characteristics (-1/2)

0 3)  +40 CON (Calculated Aid Effects); No Figured Characteristics (-1/2)

0 4)  +20 BODY (Calculated Aid Effects); No Figured Characteristics (-1/2)

0 5)  +20 EGO (Calculated Aid Effects)

0 6)  +40 PRE (Calculated Aid Effects)

0 7)  +40 PD (Calculated Aid Effects)

0 8)  +40 ED (Calculated Aid Effects)

0 9)  +8 SPD (Calculated Aid Effects)

0 10) +40 REC (Calculated Aid Effects)

0 11) +160 END (Calculated Aid Effects)

0 12) +80 STUN (Calculated Aid Effects)

0 13) Running +40" (6"/46" total), Calculated Aid Effects

0 14) Swimming +40" (2"/42" total) (Calculated Aid Effects)

0 15) Leaping +40" (4"/60" forward, 2"/30" upward) (Calculated Aid Effects)

0 16) Damage Resistance (40 PD/40 ED) (Calculated Aid Effects)

 

Powers Cost: 276

 

 

Cost Skill

3 Computer Programming 13-

3 Deduction 13-

3 Disguise 13-

3 Navigation 13-

3 Paramedics 13-

 

3 AK: Earth 13-

 

3 Scientist

2 1)  SS:  Biology 13- (3 Active Points)

2 2)  SS:  Chemistry 13- (3 Active Points)

2 3)  SS:  Electrical Engineering 13- (3 Active Points)

2 4)  SS:  Mechanical Engineering 13- (3 Active Points)

2 5)  SS:  Physics 13- (3 Active Points)

Skills Cost: 31

 

Total Character Cost: 350

 

 

----

 

The character begins with 20 Str, 12 Dex, 15 Con, 18 Int, 14 Com, and 5 PD and ED.  He also has a handful of skills.  This is his secret identity as Bill Bannister, mild mannered something-or-other.  His primary power is an Aid with +5 in Advantages.  This represents his ability to absorb solar energy.  All of his powers except his Aid are listed with the "only in hero ID" limitation.  This represents the fact that unless he actually absorbs solar radiation, these powers are not available.  Bill Bannister with no solar charge is a totally normal human.  Once he has absorbed enough solar radiation, his powers become active (usually a phase worth of the Aid is plenty).  The Aid affects every power he has, boosting most of his characteristics to superhuman levels.  Some of his powers (defenses, by rule, and other abilities as listed under the Aid) only receive half effect.  This is to try to place him square in the Superman power range on all his stats (I don't want him to have a 50 Ego or a 90 Pre).

 

Groups of powers, as well as his two multipowers, are listed with notes that say "full charge provides:" followed by a list of abilities.  This is merely a helpful list to show what the characters powers will be once the Aid has reached its maximum.  At the bottom of the power list is a large group of characteristics.  This was created in Hero Designer so that the stats would calculate properly and show up on the first page.

 

The only part of the writeup I am unsure of is the first slot of one of his multipowers.  I bought an additional +10 Str with increased end x2 ("Extra Effort Str").  His Strength already benefits from the Aid,  This is purchased separately to represent when Superman needs to lift mountains and push tectonic plates.  A GM could very well rule that this is not a separate power from his normal Str and thus can't be Aided twice.  I'd be fine with that.

 

So yes, Virginia, you can build Superman on 350 points.  But you shouldn't.

 

 

 

Exactly.  250 Points is more then enough for Superman.

[Grailknight]

Exactly.  250 Points is more then enough for Superman.

 

Except for the fact that that's a 350 point write-up.

[Hyper-Man]

The main issue I see with that build is how it makes all of his powers become 40 active points weaker just before dawn.  I've never seen any source material suggest that his powers wane that quickly out of sunlight.