Alternate character creation rules

[Sam On Maui]

Hey folks!

 

I've got a group that I'm starting to teach HERO to. However, the books are a bit thick and dense for them, so I'm starting simple and easing them in. I've already run a very simple combat for them to introduce them to some of the bare basics for that: OCV, DCV, movement, actions and half-actions, range mods, etc. Didn't even do a speed chart - just went around the table.

 

This next go round I'd like to have them make their characters, but the full blown point buy will be a bit too much, I think. So, since they're D&D players, I was considering having them roll 4d6, dropping the lowest number. The rest can go into skills. Not messing with their CVs, Speed, PD/ED, etc. The plan is for them to have a solid grasp of stuff before I let them go whole hog.

 

That said, any other options that might work? How do you ease in newbie players? They're all smart, so I'm not worried about them not understanding the system so much as, well... how do you eat an elephant? A bite at a time, right? Certainly, I'm not sure what the next logical step would be...

[Lucius]

 

My suggestion would be, sit down with each of them one on one and ask what kind of character they might like and create it for them with their input. Explain what you're doing as you go along.

 

Or build some minimally competent characters of various types leaving some points unallocated, and then for each type make a list of abilities to choose from. This should seem comfortable to them if they came from D&D.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

How does a palindromedary eat an elephant?

[L. Marcus]

Two bites at a time, presumably.

[WistfulD]

That's focusing on the wrong simplicity in my book. I would have them pick attributes (at least the ones you roll against) in units of five. Just telling them that 5 is low, 10 is human average, 15 is high, maybe heroic-character average, and 20 is just plain high.

 

The first thing I'd suggest is have them make themselves. Perhaps their ideal selves as 75 pt. characters with 20-25 in complications. Skip increases to speed, DCV, OCV, etc. If they really know martial arts, help them choose maneuvers. If they've really survived crazy car crashes unscathed, give them some pd, but mostly it will be attributes, perks, and skills. You can then use these characters for example situations to teach them game mechanics. Say, run a situation where your player Joe's self-character is pulled over buy a cop and has to make a roll of bluff vs. the cops' PS: Traffic Enforcement to teach skill use.

 

When you actually start a game, I'd suggest keeping it simple. Either no stun or all stun. No Endurance for normal actions (and endurance reserve only for wizards or super-powers). No power frameworks. This of course works best in certain campaign types. What type of game do you want to run?

 

The palindromedary is on a liquid diet. It isn't happy about its excretory situation.

[Sam On Maui]

I'll be running Paranoia in a system I like

 

Mutant powers will be prefabs from the Champions Power book. End only for powers. No STUN? That sounds kinda interesting, actually.

[Doresh]

Mmh, maybe provide some templates? Stuff like educational background, or a set of iconic powers/gadgets that can always be tinkered with later.

 

You could even go so far as to have everyone start with average stats and have them pick 2-3 templates based on their physical traits ("Smart", "Tough", "Charismatic").

[Ndreare]

Champions Universe has some rules like that in the back.

It allows for quick superhero or villains.

[Lucius]

I'll be running Paranoia in a system I like

 

Mutant powers will be prefabs from the Champions Power book. End only for powers. No STUN? That sounds kinda interesting, actually.

Make some beginning Paranoia characters. Or if you have several lying around use those. Translate them into Hero terms.

 

This will give you some idea what you'll want for beginning character points.

 

For SPD, I suggest the ordinary Infrared citizens (am I remembering the game right?) have SPD 2 and the beginning "troubleshooters" either also all have SPD 2, or all have SPD 3 (if having fast reflexes is one of the qualities that gets them picked.) Whichever you go with, all player characters should have the same SPD.

 

IF you decide to go with SPD 3, do not forget to LOWER their Running. Otherwise, they're all track stars in addition to whatever else they do.

 

Paranoia should be a "heroic" game, that is, NOT superheroic. Don't make the characters pay points for equipment.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary is your friend

[Beast]

why not get a copy of the Hero basic rules

 

http://www.herogames.com/forums/store/product/77-hero-system-basic-rulebook-pdf/

[Christopher R Taylor]

I think each session you can begin to introduce one new thing to try out.  Range modifiers.  Endurance costs.  Knockback, etc.  Each new step helps the players learn more.  If its not taking off, give it a few sessions to let them get used to it.

[mhd]

No one from my current group played HERO before, and I ran into surprisingly few problems, even with the additional hurdle of a language barrier. Starting with fewer points removes a lot of the issues, so just the guys who'd be inclined to play the mechanically heavy characters in other games should have powers (that would be the one guy who always plays minmaxed wizards etc.). Didn't have any issues with the point buy system, but again, not a lot of points anyway, plus help from Hero Designer.

 

But if I were to simplify, I'd rather go with "stat arrays" than with random rolling (for the base stats, OCV/DCV/BODY/SPD/etc. are fixed at first). A limited skill list where players just pick a few -- including one or two combat skills levels (3-pointers).

Not everything needs to be fixed, but it should be neatly packaged. So after skills and basic chars are done, one might pick from a choice of "combat", "education" or "toughness". That gives you the same points in OCV/DCV, additional skills and END/STUN/BODY, respectively.

 

If there are not a lot of powers involved at first and combats are short enough, there's no need to involve END. First two things I'd try to include is basic order (no SPD, so basically just DEX ranks and aborting actions) plus Normal vs. Killing Attacks and how to read dice. After that, most things tend to resolve themselves -- a player will ask whether he can trip or grab someone, so introduce that maneuver. There are few surprising things here, maybe apart from pulling punches or rolling with blows.

 

I probably wouldn't got with mutant powers for everyone right from the start, that seems like a needless complication.

[bluesguy]

I have taught many people how to play Hero.  The best advice I have for you is to figure out what your campaign norms are going to be so you can normalize on that.

 

Then ask each player to come up with a character background.  Who are they?  Why do they do what they do?  What is their personal history?  What are they good at and not good at?  Do they have any personality quirks?

 

From there you can then sit down with them and build a basic character.  I have built characters for everyone (based on their descriptions) in my current gaming group except for one person who knows Hero at least as well as I do.  I explain everything as we are building the character.  After we print out a copy of the character we look over the character sheet and I talk them thru what they would have to do in certain circumstances.  For instance if they say "I want to sneak up on that guy over there." and I tell them "Ok make a stealth roll..." they know how to make that roll.  Then we work thru combat.  There are some handy 'one page' combat cheat sheets floating around on the board you can use to help them go thru the 'combat process'.

 

In a Heroic game I generally ignore END costs unless someone has a 'power that has a high END cost' then they have to track their END.

 

I would definitely keep STUN & BODY when it comes to damage.  If you take away Stun as something to track you will have the issue of characters that use normal attacks - martial arts for instance - who basically never hurt anyone.

 

Starting out do not use hit locations or placed shots.

[WistfulD]

I have taught many people how to play Hero.  The best advice I have for you is to figure out what your campaign norms are going to be so you can normalize on that.

 

Then ask each player to come up with a character background.  Who are they?  Why do they do what they do?  What is their personal history?  What are they good at and not good at?  Do they have any personality quirks?

 

From there you can then sit down with them and build a basic character.  I have built characters for everyone (based on their descriptions) in my current gaming group except for one person who knows Hero at least as well as I do.  I explain everything as we are building the character.  After we print out a copy of the character we look over the character sheet and I talk them thru what they would have to do in certain circumstances.  For instance if they say "I want to sneak up on that guy over there." and I tell them "Ok make a stealth roll..." they know how to make that roll.  Then we work thru combat.  There are some handy 'one page' combat cheat sheets floating around on the board you can use to help them go thru the 'combat process'.

 

In a Heroic game I generally ignore END costs unless someone has a 'power that has a high END cost' then they have to track their END.

 

I would definitely keep STUN & BODY when it comes to damage.  If you take away Stun as something to track you will have the issue of characters that use normal attacks - martial arts for instance - who basically never hurt anyone.

 

Starting out do not use hit locations or placed shots.

 

If you get rid of stun, you generally have to do something for these, like convert them to KAs or reduce the protection that applies to them.

[Sean Waters]

Sacrilege Warning

 

I like the idea of changing the character creation rules: I’ve said it before, but I think they are the biggest barrier to entry for Hero.  There is simply too much to get your head around before you start.

 

If you are playing a game with ‘normal’ types, as I assume a Paranoia type game will use, the 4d6-1 die thing should work fine.  Don’t worry about not having efficient numbers: the players can work out what works when they are a bit more familiar and have some XP to spend.  The big advantage of inefficient numbers is that those first few points of XP can really make a difference J

 

Doing this sort of thing requires a bit more work on your part, if you want to balance character points but it should be easy enough.

 

The other approach you can use is to create half a dozen template characters with equal XP and allow the characters to pick one: you can break it down further so they pick a characteristic package (25 points) and a skills package (maybe the same again, or, being Paranoia, perhaps about 10 points…)

 

If you have 6 characteristic packages and 6 skill packages that is 36 different characters they can pick, which is unique enough to start with, and they are automatically point balanced.

 

I would use the SPD chart as I personally really like it, but give all PCs and (at least at the start of the game) NPCs the same SPD, so all the SPD chart really does is determine when the recoveries come around.  This will ease them into the idea of SPD as a Hero concept, without requiring much explanation.  You can then change things up with the idea of delaying phases and maybe introduce a threat with a higher SPD a few sessions in

 

I would leave STUN in as a concept but probably not use END in this sort of game, or, alternatively, build all END using abilities at 0 END so it is not an issue anyway.  You can get rid of it and just use Body, but fist fights last forever doing it that way.

 

Finally, arrange everything on a character sheet that has no ‘construction numbers’, just useful stuff like damage dice, skill chances and such. 

 

Have fun!

[Sam On Maui]

Thanks for the input everyone! Pondering, pondering,pondering...

[Lucius]

Can someone explain to me how using random dice rolls for Characteristics makes things easier for the players?

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary thinks handing them a set of Characteristic Templates to choose from would actually make things easier.

[Ndreare]

...

[Sam On Maui]

Quick, easy, and no agonizing over point buy in a system they don't know. I'm *almost* tempted to run in 5e because of derived stats, but I feel that's too much reliance on chance. CV, PD/ED, SPD, etc., will all be standardized, so I'm at least assured of a certain level of capability.

[Ndreare]

I just realized my response was pretty obnoxious. I will delete it.

[Sam On Maui]

Meh, don't worry about it. I thought you were joking/being sarcastic. Sarcasm is like oxygen

[Lucius]

Quick, easy, and no agonizing over point buy in a system they don't know. I'm *almost* tempted to run in 5e because of derived stats, but I feel that's too much reliance on chance. CV, PD/ED, SPD, etc., will all be standardized, so I'm at least assured of a certain level of capability.

Unless you're going to randomize the rest of the process, too - which is possible but probably a lot of work on your part - I don't see where it helps much.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

random palindromedary tagline

[Sean Waters]

Look at it from both ends, Lucius: rolling dice for characteristics is something the players are already familiar with and gives them a bridge into the system.

 

I reckon that we are too hide bound about the right way to do it sometimes.  You should be able to do pretty much anything you like with Hero, and that should apply to the rules concepts too.  

 

I would point out though that even DnD doesn't use random rolls any more as standard (well, it didn't in 4e, it might in the current edition) and, whilst hat option is retained, it defaults to a 'standard spread' selection or a point buy for characteristics.

 

I think the point is though that you CAN do it with random characteristic rolls and it still works, which is cool.  

 

I played in a game years ago where the GM decided that our starting characters (it was a superhero game and we started without superpowers) would be based on random characteristic rolls.  The random went away when we got the superpowers, but it was a nice shake up to the usual way of doing things and was fun to play.  We also used those randomly determined base characteristics if the superpowers ever got drained: if you were Human Strength 14, but Super Strength 40, a Mutation Drain (Strength) could only remove the points down to 14, at which point you were basically relying on human strength so the drain did not work any more than that.

 

Flavour, but fun.

 

Are Mac 'n' Oliver ever evil on camera?

[Lucius]

Quick, easy, and no agonizing over point buy in a system they don't know.

So, basically it relieves them of one set of choices to make. You could also relieve them of that set of choices by making the choices for them. That's even simpler.

 

I can see the value of randomness and in fact have argued for more use of randomness, but I don't see where it is helpful in this context. Maybe because in my experience randomizing parts of the character creation process makes the process HARDER rather than easier. To quote Sean Waters with emphasis added:

 

I think the point is though that you CAN do it with random characteristic rolls and it still works, which is cool.  

 

I played in a game years ago where the GM decided that our starting characters (it was a superhero game and we started without superpowers) would be based on random characteristic rolls.  The random went away when we got the superpowers, but it was a nice shake up to the usual way of doing things and was fun to play.

of course it can be done, and can be fun - precisely because it's an interesting challenge to work around factors that were given to you randomly. But to my mind, "interesting challenge" is the opposite of "let's make things easier."

 

Lucius Alexander

 

I obviously prefer the rule that I have to include a palindromedary in every tagline as opposed to saying anything I like in a tagline or just doing without taglines, but it's certainly NOT because it's "easier." Sometimes, the tagline is much harder than the post.

[mhd]

Quick, easy, and no agonizing over point buy in a system they don't know.

No agonizing over "bad rolls", esp. compared to those of more lucky players? You clearly play with a party of Buddhas

[WistfulD]

No agonizing over "bad rolls", esp. compared to those of more lucky players? You clearly play with a party of Buddhas

 Maybe you roll for stats, but they come out of a character total pool, and thus higher stat rolls = less points for skills.