Hovering

[Hyper-Man]

Smart Alec responses aside, I don't believe Teleport has the Gravity Penalty that Flight has so that Advantage would be worthless. You also can't use gravity to increase the distance of your Teleport when going down.

 

Ding Ding Ding!!! We have a Winner!

 

From 6e2 page 25:

 

Flight, Running, Swimming, and Swinging are also affected by gravity (other Movement Powers are not so affected).

 

[Mister E]

Safe Aerial Teleport: Desolidification, Trigger (teleporting into the air, no time, auto reset; +1), Reduced End (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/4)(110 active pts); Time Limit (Extra Phase; -3), Only To Protect Against Gravity (-1). Total cost: 22 pts.

[Mister E]

Levity Side-Effect: Change Environment (5 Points of Telekinetic STR to counter normal Earth gravity), Persistent (+1/4), Reduced END (0 END; +1/2), Trigger (teleports into the air, no time, auto reset; +1)(69 active pts); Time Limit (Extra Phase; -3). Total cost: 17 pts.

[Mister E]

Teleportation w/ Levity Sickness: Teleportation 60m (60 active pts); Side Effect (character always suffers 6 pts of Telekinetic STR from Change Environment that over-compensates for Earth's normal gravity by 1 STR too much causing the character to drift upwards a bit dangerously IMO; -1/2). Total cost: 40 pts.

[Hugh Neilson]

Teleport 60m, Usable As Flight 60m (+1/4). 75 pts.

Psych Comp: Can Only Hover & Resist KB w/ Flight (Common, Total): 20 pts.

I would suggest the "hover only" is a Limitation on the "Usable as Flight" advantage, not a complication. A 20 point Comp for restrictions on a 15 point ability sits wrong.

 

I believe using flight to root halves your DCV. Just hovering, 1 meter seems fine. He won't fall, but can be knocked back, can't decelerate quickly using the flight, etc. If he bought 1 m flight, he could hover and slowly move. I fail to see why being able to hover and not move should be more expensive. Make it Persistent - he always has 1 m flight trying to stabilize him.

 

So he's immune to normal fallling? Is that really substantially more valuable than immunity to other environmental effects one would purchase as Life Support?

[Lucius]

Smart Alec responses aside, I don't believe Teleport has the Gravity Penalty that Flight has so that Advantage would be worthless. You also can't use gravity to increase the distance of your Teleport when going down.

Okay, so make it

 

 

(Total: 90 Active Cost, 90 Real Cost) Teleportation 60m, {Custom Advantage That Can't Be Called No Gravity Penalty Even If It's Specifically To Eliminate One of the Major Penalties of Gravity] (+1/2) (90 Active Points) (Real Cost: 90)

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary says you can always teleport, but you can't tell it much.

[Mister E]

I would suggest the "hover only" is a Limitation on the "Usable as Flight" advantage, not a complication. A 20 point Comp for restrictions on a 15 point ability sits wrong.

Teleportation 60m. 60 pts.

 

Usable As Flight 60m for Teleportation 60m (15 active pts); Hover Only (-1). 7 pts.

 

No Hover Only for Usable As Flight 60m for Teleportation 60m (8 active pts); Requires An EGO Roll (-1 per 5 active pts; -1). 4 pts.

 

I believe using flight to root halves your DCV. Just hovering, 1 meter seems fine. He won't fall, but can be knocked back, can't decelerate quickly using the flight, etc. If he bought 1 m flight, he could hover and slowly move. I fail to see why being able to hover and not move should be more expensive. Make it Persistent - he always has 1 m flight trying to stabilize him.

Stabilizers: Flight 1m, Persistent (+1/4). 1 pt.

 

So he's immune to normal fallling? Is that really substantially more valuable than immunity to other environmental effects one would purchase as Life Support?

Gravity Snorkle: LS: Safe Environment (All Terrestrial Falling)(5 active pts); OAF (-1). 2 pts.

[Mister E]

Okay, so make it

 

 

(Total: 90 Active Cost, 90 Real Cost) Teleportation 60m, {Custom Advantage That Can't Be Called No Gravity Penalty Even If It's Specifically To Eliminate One of the Major Penalties of Gravity] (+1/2) (90 Active Points) (Real Cost: 90)

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary says you can always teleport, but you can't tell it much.

Safe Aerial Teleportation is basically adding Hovering to Teleportation.

 

At (+1/2) it would equal both Safe Blind Teleport & Usable [As Second Mode Of Movement] combined.

[bigbywolfe]

Okay, so make it

 

 

(Total: 90 Active Cost, 90 Real Cost) Teleportation 60m, {Custom Advantage That Can't Be Called No Gravity Penalty Even If It's Specifically To Eliminate One of the Major Penalties of Gravity] (+1/2) (90 Active Points) (Real Cost: 90)

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary says you can always teleport, but you can't tell it much.

So what is that Advantage supposed to do exactly? Make you never fall? You can just sit in midair forever thanks to a 1/2 Advantage?

Do you know any GMs that would actually allow that?

[Chris Goodwin]

Applying the No Gravity Penalty to Flight or any other movement powers only means that it doesn't cost 2 units of movement to climb 1 unit.  Doesn't say anything at all about hovering.  

 

If I wasn't so opposed to advantage stacking, I'd say 1 unit of Flight would be enough to hover, but either way it's not enough to hold you in place against wind, Knockback, etc. 10 points of Flight, Only To Hover (-1), costs 5 points, or 7 if you want it at 0 END.  1 point as a Multipower slot, either fixed or floating.  You don't need to spend those 30 extra points on the custom Advantage that can't be called that &c.  

[Lucius]

So what is that Advantage supposed to do exactly? Make you never fall? You can just sit in midair forever thanks to a 1/2 Advantage?

Do you know any GMs that would actually allow that?

 

Of course not. It just means you don't fall as long as you teleport every single phase. If you teleport to a given location where you are unsupported, and then next phase do anything that doesn't include teleporting again, then you start to fall.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary notes that Lucius sometimes goes from here to there without actualy passing through the space between

[Lucius]

Applying the No Gravity Penalty to Flight or any other movement powers only means that it doesn't cost 2 units of movement to climb 1 unit.  Doesn't say anything at all about hovering.  

 

If I wasn't so opposed to advantage stacking, I'd say 1 unit of Flight would be enough to hover, but either way it's not enough to hold you in place against wind, Knockback, etc. 10 points of Flight, Only To Hover (-1), costs 5 points, or 7 if you want it at 0 END.  1 point as a Multipower slot, either fixed or floating.  You don't need to spend those 30 extra points on the custom Advantage that can't be called that &c.  

 

True, but in my opinion you don't need 10 pts of Flight to not fall. To paraphrase a friend of mine, "One inch of flying is zero inches of falling."

 

Lucius Alexander

 

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[bigbywolfe]

Don't tell me "of course not" when you didn't bother to specify. If you are going to just make up Advantages you need to 1. Not use names of existing Advantages that have nothing to do with what you are building and 2. Explain what your custom Advantage actually does.

[Lucius]

I apologize for not explaining my reasoning. It never occurred to me that anyone could look at that Power construct and conclude "character can sit in midair forever." I'm still not sure what leads to that conclusion.

 

But it SHOULD have occurred to me that someone could look at that Power construct and have NO IDEA what I was thinking. 

 

Smart Alec responses aside, I don't believe Teleport has the Gravity Penalty that Flight has so that Advantage would be worthless. You also can't use gravity to increase the distance of your Teleport when going down.

If you Teleport and immediately start to fall, then gravity is most certainly increasing the distance you move downwards.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Someone might look at this tagline and conclude I can sit on a palindromedary forever.

[bigbywolfe]

I apologize for not explaining my reasoning. It never occurred to me that anyone could look at that Power construct and conclude "character can sit in midair forever." I'm still not sure what leads to that conclusion.

 

But it SHOULD have occurred to me that someone could look at that Power construct and have NO IDEA what I was thinking.

 

 

If you Teleport and immediately start to fall, then gravity is most certainly increasing the distance you move downwards.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Someone might look at this tagline and conclude I can sit on a palindromedary forever.

Gravity does not increase the rate of you Teleport MOVEMENT POWER (which I clearly stated) when going down like it does with Flight.

 

Smart Alec responses aside, I don't believe Teleport has the Gravity Penalty that Flight has so that Advantage would be worthless. You also can't use gravity to increase the distance of your Teleport when going down.

If you are going to try to make fun of me for what I say you could at least try to actually pay attention to what I say instead giving me crap for words you put in my mouth.

[Lucius]

Gravity does not increase the rate of you Teleport MOVEMENT POWER (which I clearly stated) when going down like it does with Flight.

 

 

If you are going to try to make fun of me for what I say you could at least try to actually pay attention to what I say instead giving me crap for words you put in my mouth.

I am not trying to make fun of you.

EDIT: Looking back over the conversation, I realize that this -

 

Custom Advantage That Can't Be Called No Gravity Penalty Even If It's Specifically To Eliminate One of the Major Penalties of Gravity (+1/2)

 

WAS making fun of you. I am sorry for it, but can't deny that I did it.

 

I did, and do, understand that your statement is that gravity does not increase the distance someone teleports when teleporting down. I am not saying that gravity does increase the distance that someone teleports when teleporting down, or in any other direction.

 

I AM saying that if you teleport into an unsupported position, barring some Power, Advantage, or other factor to counter it, gravity IS going to increase THE DISTANCE YOU ACTUALLY MOVE even though some of that is falling distance, not teleport distance.

 

I do apologize for offending you, which is not my intention.

 

The only words I see being put in anyone's mouth are "you can just sit in mid-air forever." I didn't like those words in my mouth so I spit them out - rather too forcefully I admit.

 

I don't want to fight with you. Can you tell me, either here or privately, what I've done to get on your bad side and what I might be able to do about it?

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary isn't sure where the point of disagreement is.

[bigbywolfe]

I AM saying that if you teleport into an unsupported position, barring some Power, Advantage, or other factor to counter it, gravity IS going to increase THE DISTANCE YOU ACTUALLY MOVE even though some of that is falling distance, not teleport distance.

That is a straw man argument that has nothing to do with what had previously been said by myself or anyone else. We aren't stupid, we all know gravity makes you fall. But you quoted me talking about gravity adding to a movement power (or NOT adding to a movement power in this case) and then responded to that quote as if you were correcting me or explaining something to an idiot even though your response had literally nothing to do with what I said (if it was a general statement/random thought then why quote me and couch it as a response?).

That was after multiple posts of snarky responses that didn't actual answer any questions asked of you and didn't add anything to the conversation other than to belittle the points of view of everyone and anyone who didn't agree with you even though you didn't bother to explain what the hell you meant in the first place. Does that explain why I might be slightly snippy in my responses?

[Lucius]

That is a straw man argument that has nothing to do with what had previously been said by myself or anyone else. We aren't stupid, we all know gravity makes you fall. But you quoted me talking about gravity adding to a movement power (or NOT adding to a movement power in this case) and then responded to that quote as if you were correcting me or explaining something to an idiot even though your response had literally nothing to do with what I said (if it was a general statement/random thought then why quote me and couch it as a response?).

That was after multiple posts of snarky responses that didn't actual answer any questions asked of you and didn't add anything to the conversation other than to belittle the points of view of everyone and anyone who didn't agree with you even though you didn't bother to explain what the hell you meant in the first place. Does that explain why I might be slightly snippy in my responses?

Yes.

 

I don't always do my part to maintain the quality of discourse and level of civility we all would like to see. I apologize for that.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

I should probably listen to the palindromedary more often.

[Mister E]

This is an excerpt from The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

 

How To Fly

© by Douglas Adams

 

 

 

There is an art, it says, or rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss. Pick a nice day, [The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy] suggests, and try it.

 

The first part is easy. All it requires is simply the ability to throw yourself forward with all your weight, and the willingness not to mind that it's going to hurt.

 

That is, it's going to hurt if you fail to miss the ground. Most people fail to miss the ground, and if they are really trying properly, the likelihood is that they will fail to miss it fairly hard.

 

Clearly, it is the second part, the missing, which presents the difficulties.

 

One problem is that you have to miss the ground accidentally. It's no good deliberately intending to miss the ground because you won't. You have to have your attention suddenly distracted by something else when you're halfway there, so that you are no longer thinking about falling, or about the ground, or about how much it's going to hurt if you fail to miss it.

 

It is notoriously difficult to prize your attention away from these three things during the split second you have at your disposal. Hence most people's failure, and their eventual disillusionment with this exhilarating and spectacular sport.

 

If, however, you are lucky enough to have your attention momentarily distracted at the crucial moment by, say, a gorgeous pair of legs (tentacles, pseudopodia, according to phyllum and/or personal inclination) or a bomb going off in your vicinty, or by suddenly spotting an extremely rare species of beetle crawling along a nearby twig, then in your astonishment you will miss the ground completely and remain bobbing just a few inches above it in what might seem to be a slightly foolish manner.

 

This is a moment for superb and delicate concentration. Bob and float, float and bob. Ignore all consideration of your own weight simply let yourself waft higher. Do not listen to what anybody says to you at this point because they are unlikely to say anything helpful. They are most likely to say something along the lines of "Good God, you can't possibly be flying!" It is vitally important not to believe them or they will suddenly be right.

 

Waft higher and higher. Try a few swoops, gentle ones at first, then drift above the treetops breathing regularly.

 

DO NOT WAVE AT ANYBODY.

 

When you have done this a few times you will find the moment of distraction rapidly easier and easier to achieve.

 

You will then learn all sorts of things about how to control your flight, your speed, your maneuverability, and the trick usually lies in not thinking too hard about whatever you want to do, but just allowing it to happen as if it were going to anyway.

 

You will also learn about how to land properly, which is something you will almost certainly screw up, and screw up badly, on your first attempt.

 

There are private clubs you can join which help you achieve the all-important moment of distraction. They hire people with surprising bodies or opinions to leap out from behind bushes and exhibit and/or explain them at the critical moments. Few genuine hitchhikers will be able to afford to join these clubs, but some may be able to get temporary employment at them.

[Christopher]

As the guy who instigated this whole thing, I should throw in another 2 cents of clarification. My concept/vision is that SuperCharacter uses Teleport as his only means of movement (aside from the normal Running, Leaping, Swimming). Let's throw out an example of what I'm trying to achieve: Badguy is hovering in the air, about 30 feet up, and 30 feet away from SuperCharacter. SuperCharacter has enough Teleport to get to the hex right in front of Badguy (30 feet in the air) as a Half-Move, then he attacks, perhaps with surprise bonuses, perhaps not. I envision SuperCharacter staying in exactly the spot he Teleported to, not having the capability of his own volition to move left, right, up, down, back or forward -- via Flight. In most cases, yeah, standing on air, but definitely not walking on air.

 

Turning on Flight, Usable As Hover Only is a zero-phase action, happening at the beginning of a Phase (and do please correct me at any point; I'm a returning veteran who's very rusty and am finding myself a little thrown by that and some of the changes in 6E). SuperCharacter then Teleports to his desired location (that he can see, that it's safe to be in, and that he can reasonably be assured that he'll arrive at). Assuming he gets to where he wants to be, the Flight/Hover is still in use, so SuperCharacter doesn't fall. He stays where he put himself until he chooses to move to another location. Buying enough Flight to counter-act Knockback might be the way to go(6E1 117); the purchase of Knockback Resistance might be in order.

As I said before, just having flght running (at it's default End consumption) allows you to not be accelerated towards the ground by gravtiy. Just havng flight running makes you excempt from further acceleration by gravity. Gravity has no effect unless you fly down (and want too) or fly upwards.

I am not sure if there is a CV penalty for falling/moving faster then your max speed. But if so you would never start falling and never accumulate speed. 1m Flight allows you to stand in the air and not accelerate towards the ground.

 

Now velocity you already had before appearing in the air (wichever way you got up there) is a different matter altogether. Those still has to be shed per the normal rules. You could literall kill yourself by just teleporting 10-50m up every segment. Until you reach terminal velocity and suffered the impact. Making an infinite loop with portal guns portals is really dangerous.

 

As far as game effects go, this is not such a good power however. You still suffer the knockback penalty for using flight. You still pay end (the 1 end minimum per phase) to keep that power running. If you only bought 1m flight and are alraedy traveling at terminal velocity, you need 50 phases to shed all the movement. 25 at NCM speeds.

Once this interacts with a drain or even Change Environment the power would instantly shut off (due to low AP/cost). There is not much omph behind that power to counter KB or aid moving/stopping something.

1m flight prevents you from being drawn down by gravity and allows you to move 1m/phase as full action. At a cost of 1 END/phase.

 

 

And let us not even think how this power would interact with gravity powers. Mostly because gravity powers are near impossible to build them properly. Gravity can just do stuff no power in hero is supposed to do....