A World Where Protection Amulets Made Armor Obsolete...

[The Weapon]

"A solid blow, even from a wooden training sword, should compress the tyre significantly"

No it shouldn't.

 

"- much more than he did, meaning he wasn't hitting it very hard"

Yes he was and he clearly was.

 

"- and I trained with guys who could literally compress a tyre of that type with a blow so that the two sides actually touched."

No you haven't.  Never happened physically impossible.

 

"Honestly compels me to admit that those two guys had no wrists:"

Ore real existance.

 

 

"I've also watched a professional re-enactor demonstrate this on a training dummy wearing mail, to prove that it was possible with a sharp weapon. He gave it two solid hits, and then I guess his grip slipped, because on the third strike, he sliced his palm right open through a heavy leather gauntlet, and had to be driven to hospital, with his hand wrapped in a blood-soaked towel. So yeah, it's dangerous."

Nope you never saw that,  you're lying.  When you start by claiming that you saw something that's physically impossible, that's your credibility gone.

[Wyrm Ouroboros]

... and when you claim that something is physically impossible when it clearly isn't - because, y'know, a tire (or tyre) is actually a flexible object - you yourself completely lose credibility.  The last bit especially gets me - how the hell can you say that someone never saw a guy wearing heavy leather gloves inflict a pressure cut on himself through extreme use of a weapon?  Do you somehow mysteriously know that sharp metal can't cut through thick leather?  If so, well, the cows of the world will undoubtedly be very happy...

 

Geez.

[Markdoc]

"A solid blow, even from a wooden training sword, should compress the tyre significantly"

No it shouldn't.

 

"- much more than he did, meaning he wasn't hitting it very hard"

Yes he was and he clearly was.

 

"- and I trained with guys who could literally compress a tyre of that type with a blow so that the two sides actually touched."

No you haven't.  Never happened physically impossible.

 

"Honestly compels me to admit that those two guys had no wrists:"

Ore real existance.

 

 

 

"I've also watched a professional re-enactor demonstrate this on a training dummy wearing mail, to prove that it was possible with a sharp weapon. He gave it two solid hits, and then I guess his grip slipped, because on the third strike, he sliced his palm right open through a heavy leather gauntlet, and had to be driven to hospital, with his hand wrapped in a blood-soaked towel. So yeah, it's dangerous."

Nope you never saw that,  you're lying.  When you start by claiming that you saw something that's physically impossible, that's your credibility gone.

You are of course, welcome to your opinion. You are wrong, but I guess that's not a crime.

 

As to what I've seen, I've repeated it accurately. It is true that the guys I was talking about were not hitting a tyre hanging on a chain, but one fixed in a frame - I guess your venom might originate from thinking I meant they crushed a hanging tyre: which I agree would be impossible. But the point remains - he's delivering light blows.

 

You can actually test this yourself. To avoid cutting himself he's pinching the blade between his fingers and his palm. If you have access to a bated blade or something similarly blunt (I don't want you to cut yourself) try holding it like that and hitting with the hilt. Then wrap your hand around it firmly in a normal grip and try again. You'll deliver a far heavier blow. Try that with a sharp blade though, and you'll cut yourself. Then try it gripping the hilt normally. Again, you can deliver a heavier strike, than you can pinching the blade with you fingers.

 

Cheers, Mark

[Markdoc]

... and when you claim that something is physically impossible when it clearly isn't - because, y'know, a tire (or tyre) is actually a flexible object - you yourself completely lose credibility.  The last bit especially gets me - how the hell can you say that someone never saw a guy wearing heavy leather gloves inflict a pressure cut on himself through extreme use of a weapon?  Do you somehow mysteriously know that sharp metal can't cut through thick leather?  If so, well, the cows of the world will undoubtedly be very happy...

 

Geez.

Too true. In addition, the next season, one of my buddies foolishly used heavy leather gauntlets during a medieval longsword demonstration, rather than plate ones, because he was in a hurry getting armed. A glancing blow, with a bated blade crushed one of his fingers, and he had to be driven to hospital to have it set too. Leather is way better than nothing, but as armour, it leaves a lot to be desired.

 

Cheers, Mark

[Manic Typist]

I almost feel like... he was joking... and botched the delivery?

[Wyrm Ouroboros]

So do I: almost.

[Mzimwi]

I use something similar to this idea in my Wajabu world. Beadwork is one of the fundamental ways of enchanting an item, thus beadwork leather shirts take the place of metal armor, which was never invented and would probably cause a heatstroke in an equatorial climate.

 

[womble]

Leather is way better than nothing, but as armour, it leaves a lot to be desired.

 

That's the reason I declined my friend's invitation to Dark Age Early Medieval re-enactment: since there's no evidence (or there wasn't back in the day, and I'm assuming none has been found, since I saw a group recently, and none of them had mail gauntlets) of mail (or better) hand protection in that time period, the group in question permitted only leather reinforcement on your gauntlets. Not enough protection from errant Dane Axe shaft hits (for my liking), let alone actual business-end contact... 

[Tanis Frey]

Getting back to the origional idea, you could that a note of a science fiction novel/movie with this concept, Dune.

 

In the movie a shield (personal force field genarator) would cause a weapon to bounce off but some thing moving slowly enough will penetrate.

[bigdamnhero]

How cheap are they? If they're basically the same cost and as common as armor, then the main advantage is less Encumbrance. (Which, speaking as an SCA veteran, is not trivial!) OTOH if they're significantly cheaper than armor, such that commoners can afford them, then you've completely upended the structure of feudal society by giving commoners some ability to stand up to knights, especially if the amulets are concealable. 

 

If they're significantly stronger than heavy plate, then you may have just made conventional weapons obsolete, further undercutting the nobility's dominance. Now all that matters is either magic weapons, or AVAD spells. Welcome to the mage-ocracy. 

 

In reality (as someone mentioned above) real armor has gaps & weak points that a skilled fighter can exploit. Assuming force fields are uniform, that goes away too. Tho that may not have any in-game mechanical effect, it still changes things. 

 

Hmm...this may just be a Hero mechanics thing, but if it becomes difficult/impossible to get BODY past magical defenses, then it's all about how much STUN you can do, and melees become about pummeling each other into unconsciousness. At which point you can always administer the coup-de-grace of course.

[Steve]

If protection amulets are cheap and powerful, it seems to me that it might cause changes to society as profound as the spread of firearms. Controlling the manufacture of them would become key to the nobility's maintenance of control.

 

Perhaps guilds could form to control such a valuable military resource.

[Old Man]

Hmm...this may just be a Hero mechanics thing, but if it becomes difficult/impossible to get BODY past magical defenses, then it's all about how much STUN you can do, and melees become about pummeling each other into unconsciousness. At which point you can always administer the coup-de-grace of course.

This is similar to what happened in the late Middle Ages, where plate armor was good enough and widespread enough that the fighting manuals of the day codified the mordstreich, half-swording, and basically judo. With magical protection approximating the same effect, mass combat could devolve into a field of sweaty, mostly naked men grappling with each other, rolling about on the ground. Perhaps as a defense, they would oil up their tanned, muscular bodies prior to the battle.

[pinecone]

So are fingernails, which would make punching through a forcefield that excluded dead organic matter a painful affair - at least the first time you did it ...

Of course if the forcefield did not exclude dead organic matter then a simple wooden club would do the trick. If only living matter passed through, a club freshly cut from a tree should work.

 

cheers, Mark

I was thinking a wooden club studded with sharks teeth.

[L. Marcus]

This is similar to what happened in the late Middle Ages, where plate armor was good enough and widespread enough that the fighting manuals of the day codified the mordstreich, half-swording, and basically judo. With magical protection approximating the same effect, mass combat could devolve into a field of sweaty, mostly naked men grappling with each other, rolling about on the ground. Perhaps as a defense, they would oil up their tanned, muscular bodies prior to the battle.

There are some that would not object to that image, especially if the combatants were two Amazon Squads.