Gun Barrel Overheat

[Surrealone]

As to how to model it:

- Any of the existing jam mechanics

- Add a Endurance reserve for the barrel/overheating part. Add "extra endurance cost" to the attack, so it draws from the Endurance reserve in addition to Charges. As usual with End Resevere in 6E you might end up wasting more points then you save that way.

 

When a barrel heats up it will cook off rounds long before warping to the point of being unusable.  In game terms this entails unintended/unaimed autofire type actions coupled with endurance/charge expenditures.  A loss of accuracy should also be incorporated, as a barrel will 'walk' (i.e. warp, but not to the point of being dangerous or unusable) as it heats up ... resulting in changes to the point of impact of projectiles fired through the barrel (relative to the point of aim from the same firearm).  It is probably only a -1 OCV mod until you reach 1000 yard distances, as we're talking minutes of angle, here, but still, it's human notice-able in as little as 100 yards depending on barrel profile and skill of the shooter.

 

Extended use of a barrel beyond the heat level at which rounds are cooked off can permanently damage a barrel fairly readily.  Jammed mechanics should probably only happen after cooking off rounds occurs -- provided the rate of fire is sustained (and even increased due to round cook-off) beyond the heat level required to cook off rounds. The chance of a Jam should probably increase as the rate of fire is maintained beyond typical heat levels.  GM's who are so-inclined may also consider Side Effects, as a critical Jam could certainly cause a catastrophic barrel failure while a round is in the chamber or barrel -- with the net result of an ugly explosion in the hands and/or near the face of the shooter.  Interestingly, most barrel failures of this type don't tend to be fatal ... or even life-threatening ... but limb loss (usually digits of the hand, unless gloves were worn), disfigurement (often the face),  and/or permanent sensory issues (eyesight loss unless eye protection was worn, hearing loss unless hearing protection was worn, etc.) can and do result.  Think of such a failure as a small (1/2d6 to 1d6) RKA that goes off locally at a hit location ... and you have the right idea.

 

Also consider that a contoured barrel, bull barrel, and standard barrel will all heat up MUCH more rapidly (and walk more) than a heavy barrel profile due to less metal being used in the construction of the non-heavy barrel profiles. Most modern fully automatic weapons have standard barrels, not heavy barrels -- something worth considering.  Also worthy of note is that contoured and bull barrels are typically used by hunters (and possibly snipers) to shave weight ... knowing that the tradeoff is a substantially reduced rate of fire (one shot per 1-2 min -- usually more than fine for a hunter) unless the shooter is willing to endure point of impact shift (i.e. reduced accuracy) due to barrel walk as noted, above.

 

Last, consider that a hard chrome-lined or a ferritic nitrocarburized barrel has undergone a surface hardening procedure that will substantially reduce the rate of wear a barrel experiences at high heat levels, which is why almost all modern U.S. military rifle barrels are either hard chrome lined or have undergone ferritic nitrocarburizing.  Plainly put -- not all barrels are created equally, so the kind of barrel (standard, countoured, bull, or heavy) and any surface hardening it's undergone should play a role if you're going to model barrel heat to the cook-off and/or warping/fatigue states.

[Tasha]

The meltdown youtube videos are pretty telling for what you have to do to a gun to get the barrel hot enough to even start to worry about Heat warping the barrel or cooking off rounds. It looks like you really have to run quite a few rounds though a barrel at full automatic to have issues. Something that one is pretty unlikely to do in anything less than a Medium machine gun.

[eepjr24]

I would not worry about it on anything smaller than an M-60 or any fight shorter than 5 or 6 turns. Unless it is just something the player is TRYING to do, then as shown in the videos you can accomplish it but it takes a good number of rounds. I have seen an M-60 barrel glowing and putting off visible heat distortion while firing before we swapped barrels. The .50 swivel mount on the Destroyer I was on did some pretty continuous fire for 40 or 50 seconds to punch enough holes in a refrigerator we found at sea to sink it and was not even visibly hot. The Phalanx CWIS system on the same destroyer got target happy on a trailed drone shoot and emptied 1,000 rounds in the space of about 12 seconds. The GM's were not even worried about the barrel, although the pilot probably soiled his pants when the drone exploded and it started eating his drag line. (You are not supposed to HIT the drone)

 

- E

[Surrealone]

The meltdown youtube videos are pretty telling for what you have to do to a gun to get the barrel hot enough to even start to worry about Heat warping the barrel or cooking off rounds. It looks like you really have to run quite a few rounds though a barrel at full automatic to have issues. Something that one is pretty unlikely to do in anything less than a Medium machine gun.

This depends on the gun.  As an example, the semi-automatic Bushmaster M17S is a piston-operated bullpup rifle that has a shrouded barrel as part of its original design.  The shroud traps heat -- a known design issue which causes people to mod these rifles (by CNC'ing ventilation holes/openings into the shroud).  The original, unmodified rifle will begin to cook off rounds with as few as three 30-round magazines that have been rapid-fired through it (basically as fast as one can pull the trigger and change magazines).  That's under 100 rounds... and fairly easy to achieve.  I should know; I own one, and it's happened -- which is why mine looks almost nothing like the original design, these days.

 

Semi-automatic AR-15 rifles fitted with bump-fire stocks and using well-lubricated beta magazines can dump 100 rounds in about 10 seconds.  Coupled with multiple beta magazine changes and assuming slow 2-3 second magazine changes, that's more than 500 rounds per minute out of a shouldered and aimed semi-automatic civilian AR-15.  The average civilian AR-15 has a craptastic barrel (i.e. not military grade, usually) ... meaning it's probably going to be HOT after that first 100-200 rounds are put through it ... hot enough for VERY noticeable barrel walk at even short (100yd) distances ... and possibly round cook-off if one is left chambered with the bolt closed for any length of time.  Someone running the gun steadily probably won't encounter a problem because the heat transfer would take time ... but up the ante and put 500-1000 rounds through it in 1-2 mins (i.e. get it super hot) and you're probably cooking off rounds given the closed bolt design ... assuming the rifle's gas tube hasn't already failed AND the handguard provides enough forearm insulation that you don't get burned handling the gun.

 

 

I would not worry about it on anything smaller than an M-60 or any fight shorter than 5 or 6 turns. Unless it is just something the player is TRYING to do, then as shown in the videos you can accomplish it but it takes a good number of rounds. I have seen an M-60 barrel glowing and putting off visible heat distortion while firing before we swapped barrels. The .50 swivel mount on the Destroyer I was on did some pretty continuous fire for 40 or 50 seconds to punch enough holes in a refrigerator we found at sea to sink it and was not even visibly hot. The Phalanx CWIS system on the same destroyer got target happy on a trailed drone shoot and emptied 1,000 rounds in the space of about 12 seconds. The GM's were not even worried about the barrel, although the pilot probably soiled his pants when the drone exploded and it started eating his drag line. (You are not supposed to HIT the drone)

Based on personal experience, I disagee.  See above as to why. 

 

Comparing experiences with belt-fed machine guns to running civilian AR-15's at high RoF's isn't exactly apples-to-apples.  Keep in mind that belt-fed weapons are usually open bolt designs (general exception: WWI aircraft machine guns that needed to be synchronized with propeller rotation soas not to shoot off the propeller; these were primarily closed bolt designs).  In addition to open bolt designs having fewer moving parts (and, thus, reduced malfunctions), a major consideration for the use of an open bolt design is that there is substantially increased heat dissipation compared with closed bolt designs.  The fact that the venerable Vickers gun from WWI was a closed bolt design that required water cooling for the barrel should tell you something...

[Tasha]

The question is can you dump enough rounds though the weapon to achieve those temperatures in a Hero System game?Keeping in mind that most combats last 24 seconds (36 seconds if the PC's really can't hit anything).

The Meltdown videos took minutes (5 turns per minute) to generate enough heat to warp a barrel or possibly cook off rounds. I am not really convinced that for most Hero system games worrying about heat issues is even worth it.

I could see if you were doing some kind of abstracted long battle, where the pcs had to mow down huge numbers of opponents. Then perhaps worrying about heat would be something that you might want to add to the adventure to increase tension.

[Surrealone]

The question is can you dump enough rounds though the weapon to achieve those temperatures in a Hero System game?Keeping in mind that most combats last 24 seconds (36 seconds if the PC's really can't hit anything).

If I recall correctly, the Dark Campions supplement was aimed at heroic level play for street vigilante types.  In my experience, combats tend to take a lot more than 24 seconds in heroic games. In such a game with SPD2 or SPD3 normals operating the relevant firearms, you could absolutely toast a barrel, cook off rounds, melt a gas tube or guide rod, etc. during the course of a 1-2 min fight, especially if those firing are 'blazing away'.

 

Surreal

[Tasha]

If I recall correctly, the Dark Campions supplement was aimed at heroic level play for street vigilante types.  In my experience, combats tend to take a lot more than 24 seconds in heroic games. In such a game with SPD2 or SPD3 normals operating the relevant firearms, you could absolutely toast a barrel, cook off rounds, melt a gas tube or guide rod, etc. during the course of a 1-2 min fight, especially if those firing are 'blazing away'.

 

Surreal

 

I say that Combats run less than 30 seconds based on years of play with most of those being in heroic games. No one "Blazes away" Players want to hit something. I find that players learn that 3 shot bursts are a real sweet spot unless what they are fighting against has an abysmal DCV.

 

Besides most hero games tend to be based on "Cinematic Realism" ie overheated barrels are not things you tend to see.

[Surrealone]

I say that Combats run less than 30 seconds based on years of play with most of those being in heroic games. No one "Blazes away" Players want to hit something. I find that players learn that 3 shot bursts are a real sweet spot unless what they are fighting against has an abysmal DCV.

 

Besides most hero games tend to be based on "Cinematic Realism" ie overheated barrels are not things you tend to see.

I thought it was 24 seconds.  Now it's 30?

 

Regardless, that runs counter to my experiences in heroic games.  Perhaps the difference is in the power level of the heroic games we play, as most I've played in have tended toward 'standard heroic' levels (i.e. barely above competent normal level play) ... with a few reaching 'powerful heroic'.  Another possibility may be a matter of the gaming styles, as I tend toward games that treat the battlefield much like wargaming ... i.e. the battle simulation entails a high degree of precision, with pretty much all RAW options on the table and few (if any) house rules that handwave or ignore options.

 

People absolutely 'blaze away' in games on this end.  Sometimes it's to provide suppression fire.  Other times it's to make very violent presence attacks.  Most of the time it happens when NPC firearms are procured and used against the enemy; people don't tend to blow their own charges in such ways.  3-shot bursts are, indeed, a mathematical sweet spot (which is good, as it emulates controlled 3-shot bursts in the real world), but there are times and places where you want to intimidate/cow your enemy and/or force a retreat ... not kill him/her.  Maybe the people you play with don't think in such ways, but the folks I've gamed with sure did/do.

 

Tactical battles here just don't tend to be short/sweet without the element of surprise at play ... and in modern genres, the element of surprise is tough to come by.  (Cameras, alarms, human patrols, dogs -- i.e. good layered security -- can rarely be defeated in its entirety.)  Perhaps your fights are simpler?  I dunno...

[Vondy]

The question is can you dump enough rounds though the weapon to achieve those temperatures in a Hero System game?Keeping in mind that most combats last 24 seconds (36 seconds if the PC's really can't hit anything).

 

You would have to blaze away, use suppressing fire, miss one hell of a lot, or be doing a machine-gun emplacement simulation during a mass battle that lasted for turns on end before you ran across this problem. In 35 years of gaming, I've seen a situation like that once or twice, at most.  Even extended battles with lots of rounds being cooked off tend to have lulls in the fighting for maneuver, etc. I just don't think its worth modelling.

[Vondy]

.No one "Blazes away" Players want to hit something.

 

Sheepishly raises hand. I use blazing away and surppression fire every so often.

 

A good presence attack can do wonders to clear a room.

 

And, suppression fire can control the battlefield so that your side can maneuver or accomplish other tasks.

 

But, overall, you're right. Three-round bursts are the sweet spot in Hero. 

[Tasha]

Basically in the Overheat video where he used a cheapie AK 47 it took over 2 minutes of constant automatic fire to finally cause the weapon's barrel to droop enough to make the gas piston jam. That's 10 turns in hero. 30 seconds is 2.5 Turns. No Where long enough to even worry. 5 Turns(one Minute) which is a VERY VERY Long combat.  

So IF a PC blazes away for 10 turns, I would start to get worried about their Assault rifle or Sub Machine gun. Medium Machine Guns and Heavy machine Guns are actually designed to be fired that way so those should go for longer before they start to have issues.

[Surrealone]

Basically in the Overheat video where he used a cheapie AK 47 it took over 2 minutes of constant automatic fire to finally cause the weapon's barrel to droop enough to make the gas piston jam. That's 10 turns in hero. 30 seconds is 2.5 Turns. No Where long enough to even worry. 5 Turns(one Minute) which is a VERY VERY Long combat.  

 

So IF a PC blazes away for 10 turns, I would start to get worried about their Assault rifle or Sub Machine gun. Medium Machine Guns and Heavy machine Guns are actually designed to be fired that way so those should go for longer before they start to have issues.

10 turns using the AK as the benchmark?  That's oversimplified and also overly generous. The devil's in the details, so let's look at why:

 

Details:

The AK47's rate of fire is 600 rounds per min ... and that guy's magazine changes were abysmally slow.  By comparison, the M16 and M4 both have rates of fire that are 700-950 rounds per minute (depending on manufacturer) ... and the delta between an AR-15 and a M-16 is a whopping 5 parts which anyone can buy.  (Note: It's not legal for a civilian to own a majority of those 5 parts without ATF approval!)

 

This video is a poor example because the guy with the M4 slows up while walking backward, but notice he starts after the AK fire commences, and finishes well before the AK fire does:

 

Relevance:

If the AK user blazed away with a RoF of 600 rounds/min for 2 mins (totaling 1200 rounds in 120 secs aka 10 turns) ... the user of a M4 with a 900 round/min ROF would only need to blaze away for 1.33 mins (totaling 1200 rounds in 80 secs aka 7.75 turns) ... and would have a barrel that is actually hotter than the AK's barrel since the 5.56x45 NATO round is spec'd for 55,000 psi while the 7.62x39 Russian round is spec'd for 45,000 psi despite having similar powder charges.

 

Thus, you need to look at each weapon's rate of fire AND the pressures produced in it  -- to fairly gauge when you might need to be concerned.  If you used your AK gauge of 10 turns before being concerned ... for the M4 user ... you'd give him a bit more than 3 turns more of worry-free sustained fire than he really deserves, since his rifle puts more rounds downrange in less time, at higher pressures and temperatures.

 

 

You say 5 turn Hero combats are long???

Maybe for you, Tasha, but I'm presently playing a SPD2 character for whom 20 phases (i.e. 10 turns) of combat is NOT a long combat.  In fact it tends to be about par ... with longer combats going 20-25 turns.  Do consider, though, that everyone in this game tends to be SPD 2 or 3 ... with the occasional 4-5 'speedster'.  Turns play out much faster (meaning you can play through more of them in the same period of time within the real world) in games that are lower point levels and, thus, lower speed.  You also tend to get more reasonable fights resembling cinematic/vigilante fight sequences in Hollywood this way ... where 2-3 mins of combat-time cat/mouse, hit/run, fight/evade sequences are pretty common as position is jockeyed for and people move around.  Parking a designated marksman with a high ROF weapon in such a scenario and having him let loose in order to suppress opposition/movement in an area for minutes at a time is completely reasonable ... and that's the guy you'd have to gauge for malfunctions/issues.

 

As I think about it, I'm just not sure why you think 5 turns of combat time is long.  To show you why, here's a 6+ min scene from John Wick that my present GM would likely run as one long combat (not a bunch of short, separate ones), as he tends to include the initial positional movements before a shot is taken ... in combat time ... for combat simulation accuracy:

 

That's a 30+ turn fight ... for a SPD4, well-trained normal.  (And a good one too. )

 

1.3 mins (i.e. 7.75 turns) turns of steady fire with a high ROF weapon ... just isn't a lot of gunfire ... in a military, paramilitary, or other scenario where there's no reason to stop firing except to change magazines.  Not in games in which I've played, anyway...

[Surrealone]

As I think about it, the longest running fight/combat from recent films I've seen clocks in at over 10 mins.  Specifically it's the robbery scene from Heat., where both the cops and robbers are doing their things (including holding actions -- especially in the case of the cops once the move into positions) in combat time well before any shots are fired.  Again, my GM would likely run this as one 50+ turn combat for battle simulation accuracy, as well as to do proper justice to things like the PRE attack that takes place just shy of 2 mins into the scene.  The first shots aren't fired until a bit more than 4.25 mins into the scene, but once the gunfire commences there is a LOT of it from these SPD 2 guys.

 

I know some GM's would break this up into mini-fights, but you lose a lot of positional accuracy doing that, whereas remaining in combat time makes the jockeying for position, cover, surprise, etc. that you see in this scene highly relevant when simulating it.

 

(This is one of my favourite scenes, by the way.  Just awesome to hear the gunfire echo off the buildings.  A real Hollywood treat!)

 

Note that none of what's in this scene is enough to cook off rounds ... but if one of the robbers had steadily blazed away (only stopping to reload) for 7-10 turns (of this 50 turn combat) with those high ROF M16's, you bet some rounds would be cooking off ... if the gas tubes were still intact on the rifles.  And in the context of a 50 turn fight, sustaining fire for a bit more than 7% of the combat time ... is peanuts.

[Tasha]

I am talking about what is unusual for the system, period. Yeah, there are many battles IRL and in movies that clock in at more than a minute. We aren't talking about those. We are talking about 5 turns of combat in THIS RPG.

Most of the Heroic Games that I play in PC's tend to be spd 3, Spd4 tend to be the high dex, high DCV, fragile types. Since the system says that an average person has spd 2, people like their PCs to be slightly better than the average person. YMMV.

 

I think you made my point btw. "but if one of the robbers had steadily blazed away (only stopping to reload) for 7-10 turns (of this 50 turn combat) with those high ROF M16's, you bet some rounds would be cooking off"

 

You know what, who cares? It's your game. If you want to render's your Player's guns cooked after 1 Turn of game play, fine. It's your game. I don't have to play with you, so it doesn't effect me at all.

[Vondy]

Real life battles that last more than a minute or two don't typically have people burning off dozens of clips one after the other in rapid succession. Hell, how many people are carrying dozens of clips in the first place? The standard load-out for infantry these days is 300 rounds. That's it.

 

Most soldiers practice burst control, firing discipline, and take time to acquire targets, move, take cover, etc. Cooking off your whole kit in the opening moments of an engagement (which may be a part of a larger deployment) would be ridiculous. A loaded assault rifle magazine weighs 2.2-3.1 pounds depending on caliber. Ten clips will run 22-31 pounds!

 

Try carrying much more than that - plus guns, armor, and other gear - while remaining tactically mobile. At some point you'll be dragging a several hundred pound duffle-bag of ammo across the battlefield while you change positions - maybe then you'll have enough ammo available to melt that barrel. Of course, at that point, you're so tied to your ammo pile that you won't be able to maneuver and will be a sitting duck.

 

What is more, no one in the scene in Heat fired more than a few hundred rounds (each), or even changes clips more than 5-6 times. That is hardly enough for barrel overheat. Real world? In the north Hollywood shootout the suspects (combined) fired just over 1,100 rounds. Their weapons didn't come close to failing - and they were each carrying 50+ pounds of ammunition. Plus the firearms. Plus the body armor.  Plus the money...

 

The video is a gun-bunny experiment that doesn't even remotely mirror what will happen in 99.9% of real world extended firefight scenarios...

 

Its redneck science.

[Old Man]

The only circumstance I can think of where I might want to model overheat in a game would be something like a zombie apocalypse scenario. One in which the PCs have already made a probably-fatal mistake.

[Tasha]

The only circumstance I can think of where I might want to model overheat in a game would be something like a zombie apocalypse scenario. One in which the PCs have already made a probably-fatal mistake.

 

A scenario where the PC start to quote Jane Cobb, "It would have been nice to have some GRENADES..."

[Surrealone]

I am talking about what is unusual for the system, period. Yeah, there are many battles IRL and in movies that clock in at more than a minute. We aren't talking about those. We are talking about 5 turns of combat in THIS RPG.

No, you are talking about what is apparently unusual for you, period.  5+ turns of combat is quite normal for others (me, for instance) in THIS RPG.  Your experience is not that of everyone else, nor is yours the 'norm' and things outside of it 'unusual'.  But you're talking as if that's the case... and I'm absolutely counterpointing you to underscore that it's only YOUR case.

 

5-10 turns of someone unloading a firearm steadily may be something not done in  YOUR games.  It has happened in the ones I play in.  After you spoke up and said no one blazes away as if it were canon/law, Vondy spoke up and mentioned he's blazed away.  It's been done in games I've played in, and suppression fire is quite common from my experience.  I think the point is made that extended fire happens.  Maybe it doesn't happen in your games, especially if your combats last 1-2 turns and are then done (since 5 turns is apparently long in your games).  But in games where even semi-realistic amounts of time are simulated as combat, I'm sure it happens in some games, where appropriate.

 

 

 

Real life battles that last more than a minute or two don't typically have people burning off dozens of clips one after the other in rapid succession. Hell, how many people are carrying dozens of clips in the first place? The standard load-out for infantry these days is 300 rounds. That's it.

 

<SNIP>

 

Try carrying much more than that - plus guns, armor, and other gear - while remaining tactically mobile. At some point you'll be dragging a several hundred pound duffle-bag of ammo across the battlefield while you change positions - maybe then you'll have enough ammo available to melt that barrel. Of course, at that point, you're so tied to your ammo pile that you won't be able to maneuver and will be a sitting duck.

 

<SNIP>

 

What is more, no one in the scene in Heat fired more than a few hundred rounds (each), or even changes clips more than 5-6 times. That is hardly enough for barrel overheat. Real world? In the north Hollywood shootout the suspects (combined) fired just over 1,100 rounds.

I agree, weight of ammo is the key reason this tends to be a non-issue ... in both the real world and in the game.  However, if in the game you can shoot on the move and resupply using your enemy's ammo as you move from point to point, it's do-able.  OR if you are storming a military storage facility ... it's VERY doable.  And if the firearm fails, well, pick up one of your enemy's or one from the depot...

 

Now, regarding Heat -- I mentioned in that post it wasn't representative of enough gunfire to cook off rounds.  Rather, I posted it to underscore for Tasha that combats last more than 1-2 mins in Hollywood ... and given that cinematic/dramatic effect is something we strive for in RPG's, it'll tend to happen in the game, too -- even if it doesn't in hers.  (I know it does in ours!)

 

And as for the North Hollywood shootout -- the duration of that clocked in at 1 hour and 43 mins according to the almighty Internet.  That's 1100 rounds in 715 turns of combat, so of course their firearms didn't fail.  They had lots of non-shooting time between uses, just like in Heat's gunbattle...

 

 

A scenario where the PC start to quote Jane Cobb, "It would have been nice to have some GRENADES..."

 

Nice Serenity reference.

[Tasha]

You can use supression fire WITHOUT Blazing Away. In fact, it's much MORE dangerous if you use a shorter burst.

 

Funny thing is that your 5 turn combat is about the same as my 3 turn Combat. Yours of course gives 6 seconds between phases for the gun to cool. Mine only gives 3-4 seconds.

[Pattern Ghost]

One of the fun things about the old Red Baron PC game was whacking your machine gun with a hammer when it jammed. I played two back to back campaigns (one each side) one summer day and overheated my PC at the very end of the second campaign. Virtual machine guns made my real computer nearly melt down.

 

One of the topic of game guns overheating, I make one simple assumption: The PCs know how to run their weapons. A competent gunner doesn't let their gun overheat, even if the player may use game rules in a way that would push their luck IRL. However, if a dramatically appropriate meltdown could add a bit of flare to a game session. Players would remember melting both barrels on their M60 as they mowed down hordes of advancing pedants, for example.

[Surrealone]

One of the topic of game guns overheating, I make one simple assumption: The PCs know how to run their weapons. A competent gunner doesn't let their gun overheat, even if the player may use game rules in a way that would push their luck IRL. However, if a dramatically appropriate meltdown could add a bit of flare to a game session. Players would remember melting both barrels on their M60 as they mowed down hordes of advancing pedants, for example.

 

As I said in an earlier post, "Most of the time it happens when NPC firearms are procured and used against the enemy; people don't tend to blow their own charges in such ways."

 

You might want to use caution with your assumption.  Certainly it's fair to say that a competent gunner with appropriate WF will properly care for his/her weaponry, but a competent gunner with appropriate WF may also absolutely acquire the enemy's weaponry and choose to use it in such a way as to burn the enemy's ammunition away quickly, influence battlefield movements in his/her team's favor, and harm/destroy the enemy's weaponry by such use ... all at once.

[Hyper-Man]

The only circumstance I can think of where I might want to model overheat in a game would be something like a zombie apocalypse scenario. One in which the PCs have already made a probably-fatal mistake.

 

Hey, at least it's a target rich environment so Blazing Away is probably practical.

 

 

 

HM

[Pattern Ghost]

As I said in an earlier post, "Most of the time it happens when NPC firearms are procured and used against the enemy; people don't tend to blow their own charges in such ways."

 

You might want to use caution with your assumption.  Certainly it's fair to say that a competent gunner with appropriate WF will properly care for his/her weaponry, but a competent gunner with appropriate WF may also absolutely acquire the enemy's weaponry and choose to use it in such a way as to burn the enemy's ammunition away quickly, influence battlefield movements in his/her team's favor, and harm/destroy the enemy's weaponry by such use ... all at once.

 

Not a single thing you said is relevant to what I said. We just like differing levels of detail in our games. Nothing wrong with either approach IMO. The cool thing about Hero is that it lets you dial in on your preference very nicely.

 

ETA: I wasn't addressing anything you said in an earlier post, so I don't know what the red highlighting is about. It's very dramatic, though, so I like it. If the PCs try to overheat a weapon to make it useless to an enemy, that'd be great and I'd allow it by GM fiat. If it became a regular thing, I'd probably want to codify it in the rules.

[Christopher R Taylor]

Why don't zombies eat each other?

[Hyper-Man]

Why don't zombies eat each other?

 

Probably for a similar reason to why piranha don't either.