Q. re: Breakable Focus

[phydaux]

On p. 105 CC says "If a Breakable Focus is hit by an attack that causes BODY damage past the Focus’s defenses, one power bought through the Focus is destroyed."

 

It says "If a Breakable Focus is hit."  Does that mean that the attack has to be directed AT the focus specifically with the intent of damaging it, rather than at the character?

 

[steriaca]

Depends on the GM. In an old game I played in, it was a common tactic to aim at power armor to melt off some of that protection. It also depends on what the user is doing with the focus (breakable shields and swords are more likely to break if being used to block, no mater if the attacker means to or not).

[Hyper-Man]

In the case of power armor like Iron Man's OIF it will work that way. It is the trade off for getting a -1/2 Limitation vs. the -1/4 of OIHID.  Any BODY damage that gets past the defenses of the armor will in turn take out the largest Power built through the armor.

[Tasha]

I think that interpreting that extra -1/4 limitation to mean that the focus gets damaged when hit is a real stretch and way too harsh. You will just see folk saying the focus is unbreakable (+0).

A focus gains an additional -1/4 over OIAID (Only in Alternate ID) because the focus can be taken and be away from the PC for extended periods. Breakable Armor should probably take -1/4 Real Armor to reflect that it can be damaged.

 

If someone has a breakable focus, it needs to be targeted specifically (extra -2 OCV to hit an OAF Focus). An Inaccessable Focus shouldn't be able to be normally targeted (part of it being Inaccessable).

[phydaux]

I think that interpreting that extra -1/4 limitation to mean that the focus gets damaged when hit is a real stretch and way too harsh. You will just see folk saying the focus is unbreakable (+0).

 

A focus gains an additional -1/4 over OIAID (Only in Alternate ID) because the focus can be taken and be away from the PC for extended periods. Breakable Armor should probably take -1/4 Real Armor to reflect that it can be damaged.

 

If someone has a breakable focus, it needs to be targeted specifically (extra -2 OCV to hit an OAF Focus). An Inaccessable Focus shouldn't be able to be normally targeted (part of it being Inaccessable).

 

Tasha, normally I defer to your interpretation of the rules by default, but I've gotta ask for clarification here.  

 

RAW says that breakable foci take damage once enough BODY gets past the focus' resistance.  But how does that work when it is the character that gets attacked, and the focus provides PD?

 

I get that if someone specifically targets the focus and does more BODY than the focus has resistance (either through active points or PD provided) then the focus takes damage and stops working.  But since it was the focus that was the target, then no damage spills over to the character, right?

 

But if the character has a focus that provides 12rPD, and someone hit the character with an attack that does 13 body, in addition to the character suffering one BODY damage does the focus also take damage (and stop working) or does the focus get to apply its 12 resistance to the spillover before breaking?

 

Some would say "The focus already applied its resistance when it protected the character."  To that I say that it's a bit much for both the character AND the focus to take damage.  

 

IMO if it was the character that was attacked then the character should take the damage, and his various foci should get to resist the spillover with their own resistance, and the ones with the least resistance breaking first.

 

But does that jibe with RAW?

[Greywind]

Whatever provides the most dramatic sense without overly conflicting with common sense.

[steriaca]

Basically, you Must aim at the focus to damage it. If it is something the character picks up and has not paid points for, then feal free to damage it at each strike.

[TheDarkness]

It's also worth keeping in mind that, if a lot of people are wearing armor of one sort or another in a game, combat will crawl if you are constantly having to calculate damage to the armor.

 

I've considered, given the doubling rule, just setting a refresh rate for replacing armor. Every X games, spend the five points for doubling and assume one suit is gone.

 

For high point, specialized armor, I'll probably treat it more like the Millennium Falcon, when not adventuring, you are always repairing. Major damage in game may effect things, but I'm not taking away the suit.

[Tasha]

A focus that gives defenses uses the greater of either the Defense that the item gives or largest power Active cost/5. Most Superheroic armor suits give a ton of defenses so it's quite possible to have superheroic armor that is way higher than nearly anything that the campaign can throw at it.

 

Inaccessable Foci can be targeted with the same -2 OCV that Accessable foci require to be targeted.

 

Technically any attack that hits a focus that includes defenses hits the armor for damage. The rules DO mention that to speed play and to prevent foci breakage from happening regularly, that it's ok to ignore that particular rule.

 

The last powers that get damaged in a focus with defensive powers ARE the defenses. Each time the focus is damaged either the most expensive power or a power chosen at random is destroyed.

I generally ignore foci Damage for Superheroic games. It's really not fun for the players to have someone target their powers and it's not worth the extra bookkeeping. 

[Hyper-Man]

The funny thing is that the MCU Iron Man suit appears to function as if this rule IS in play as his various armors get damaged during several fights.

[TheDarkness]

The funny thing is that the MCU Iron Man suit appears to function as if this rule IS in play as his various armors get damaged during several fights.

His GM is Jarvis. Much faster at the math than mine.

[Tasha]

RAW focus rules. 6e1 378-379

[Greywind]

I have used in the past. The character I was using it with was solely made to do such things. The first collateral was his target's car.

[Hugh Neilson]

RAW says that breakable foci take damage once enough BODY gets past the focus' resistance.  But how does that work when it is the character that gets attacked, and the focus provides PD?

The focus was not targeted, and does not take damage. The character takes damage. If the focus is targeted, it will be damaged, and the character will not.

 

A heavy mace was pretty effective against armored targets not because it pierced the armor, but because the energy was carried through the armor, as an example where the character takes damage through a focus without the focus being destroyed.

 

The alternative interpretation means that every focus is damaged by every Area Effect spell, and Fantasy characters should routinely expect their shields to be cleaved through, and their armor shattered from their bodies, as they often take enough BOD from a typical attack to damage those foci. Similarly, a bulletproof vest should typically be shredded by any good damage roll.

 

That interpretation also begs for creative SFX. Your OIF Armor is subject to every attack that hits you, but my OIF Magic Ring that toughens my skin with a glowing field does not.

 

Damage can get through the focus without damaging the focus. If you want to damage the focus, you need to target it specifically.

[IndianaJoe3]

I've sometimes defined Unbreakable as, "Unbreakable in combat." It doesn't lose functions from damage, but can still be destroyed by mundane means if the attacker has time and tools.

[Tasha]

@Hugh.

RAW says that a Focus that gives defense is affected by any attack that hits the character. Any damage that is greater than 1/5 the active points of the largest power or the applicable defensive power i.e. the Titanium PA suit has a 14d6 blast along with 20 PD/ED Resistant defense. The focus would use the Resistant defense since it's more defense. If the Armor had a 14d6 attack and 13 def PD/ED Resistant Defense, it would use the Blast's active points/5 as it's defense. Each attack that exceeds the item's defense KO's an ability that item has, with Defenses effected last.
A GM can decide to wave this rule as they wish.

[Hugh Neilson]

Tasha, I'm curious to hear from anyone who has ever played a Fantasy game with that rule in force. One BOD gets through and you need new armor.

[Hyper-Man]

I'm guessing that the rule was intended for Champions/superhero games where characters paid for everything. I agree that it does not make sense in a game where equipment is purchased with money.

[Scott Baker]

Tasha, I'm curious to hear from anyone who has ever played a Fantasy game with that rule in force. One BOD gets through and you need new armor.

I'm pretty sure we just ignored this the last time I played fantasy with Hero.

 

Since I don't normally play fantasy I took a look in FHC and see that the rule carries over verbatim to that version as well.

[Tasha]

Yeah, we never used that rule for Heroic Armor whether it was for Fantasy Hero or any of the Modern Genre Games. FH1 had a decent system that gave a piece of armor more than a couple of body, but we never used it. We did use the old system for weapon damage. But that only came into play when you were using excessive extra strength with melee weapons.

[Tasha]

I'm guessing that the rule was intended for Champions/superhero games where characters paid for everything. I agree that it does not make sense in a game where equipment is purchased with money.

 

One quibble that I have with the current rules (ex FH Complete) is that they are VERY Superhero centric. Heroic games seem to have been an afterthought.