Would you allow this character?

[Argus]

One of my players what's to play this character.

 

Would you allow it

[Argus]

The Character

 

Val Char Base Points Total Roll Notes

15 STR 10 5 15 12- HTH Damage 3d6 END [1]

13 DEX 10 9 13/24 12- / 14- OCV 4/8 DCV 4/8

13 CON 10 6 13/23 12- / 14-

10 BODY 10 0 10 11-

23 INT 10 13 23 14- PER Roll 14-

14 EGO 10 8 14 12- ECV: 5

13 PRE 10 3 13 12- PRE Attack: 2 1/2d6

10 COM 10 0 10 11-

 

 

3 PD 3 0 3/18 3/18 PD (0/15 rPD)

3 ED 3 0 3/20 3/20 ED (0/15 rED)

3 SPD 2.3 7 4/5 Phases: 3, 6, 9, 12/3, 5, 8, 10, 12

6 REC 6 0 6/27

26 END 26 0 26/46

25 STUN 25 0 25/30

7" Running 6 2 7"

2" Swimming 2 0 2"

3" Leaping 3 0 3" 53 Total Characteristics Points

 

3 Analyze: Magic 14-

5 +1 with Magic Combat

7 Power (INT-based) 16-

1 WF: Staffs

3 Linguist

2 1) Language: Latin (fluent conversation; literate) (3 Active Points)

2 2) Language: Ancient Language Atlantean (fluent conversation; literate) (3 Active Points)

3 Scholar

2 1) KS: Occult (INT-based) (3 Active Points) 14-

2 2) KS: Magic through the ages (INT-based) (3 Active Points) 14-

2 3) KS: Items of Power (INT-based) (3 Active Points) 14-

2 4) KS: Magic Wielders (INT-based) (3 Active Points) 14-

1 5) KS: Who's Who and What's what in the Spirit World (2 Active Points) 11-

35 Total Skills Cost

PERKS

Cost Name

5 Money: Well Off

3 Well-Connected

2 1) Contact The Magician (Contact has: useful Skills or resources) (3 Active Points) 11-

2 2) Contact The Master (Contact has: useful Skills or resources) (3 Active Points) 11-

2 3) Contact Raven (Contact has: useful Skills or resources, Good relationship with Contact) (3 Active Points) 8-

14 Total Perks Cost

 

Powers

11 Summonable Staff: (Total: 30 Active Cost, 11 Real Cost) Hand-To-Hand Attack +4d6, Reduced Endurance 0 END (+1/2) (30 Active Points); OAF (-1), Hand-To-Hand Attack (-1/2), No Knockback (-1/4) (Real Cost: 11)

 

12 Sense Magic: Detect A Class Of Things 14-, Range, Sense

 

7 Spells of Protection: Elemental Control, 30-point powers, all slots: (15 Active Points); IAF (Focus Costume parts; -1/2), Costs Endurance Only Costs END to Activate (-1/4), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4)

 

12 1) Protection bubble: Force Field (15 PD/15 ED), Reduced Endurance 0 END (+1/2) (45 Active Points); Only In Heroic Identity (-1/4)

 

7 2) Energy Damage Reduction, Resistant, 50% (30 Active Points)

Notes: focus is pants and shirt of costume 3

 

7 3) Physical Damage Reduction, Resistant, 50% (30 Active Points)

Notes: Shirt and pants of costume 3

 

7 4) Danger Sense (Area: General Area, Function as a Sense, Sensitivity: Out of Combat) (32 Active Points) 14-

Notes: Focus is glasses which becomes part of mask 3

 

4 5) Blur field: +6 with DCV (30 Active Points); Increased Endurance Cost 4x END (-1 1/2), Only In Heroic Identity (-1/4), Costs Endurance Only Costs END to Activate (-1/4)

Notes: Focus is belt 12

 

17 6) Viewing is everything: (Total: 75 Active Cost, 22 Real Cost) Remote viewing: Clairsentience (Sight Group And Normal Hearing), Single Dimension (Earth) (35 Active Points); Only Through The Senses Of Others (-1/2) (Real Cost: 23) plus Foresight is forewarned: Precognition for Clairsentience (20 Active Points); No Conscious Control (-2), Only through the senses of Others Power loses about a third of its effectiveness (-1/2) (Real Cost: 6) plus Hindsight is 20/20: Postcognition for Clairsentience (20 Active Points); Only through dreams Power loses about half of its effectiveness (-

1), Only Through senses of others Power loses about a third of its effectiveness (-1/2) (Real Cost: 8)

Notes: Focus is glasses that becomes part of his mask in HID 7

 

5 Transform 2d6: Change to Hero ID (Cosmetic) (10 Active Points); Self Only Power loses about a third of its effectiveness (-1/2), Limited Target Clothes Slightly Limited (-1/4), Gestures (-1/4) 1

 

Mantle of The Hero, all slots: IAF (Focus Belt; -1/2), Only In Heroic Identity (-1/4), Costs Endurance Only Costs END to Activate (-1/4)

16 1) +11 DEX (33 Active Points) 3

10 2) +10 CON (20 Active Points) 2

5 3) +1 SPD (10 Active Points) 1

19 4) +19 REC (38 Active Points) 4

 

11 Fast recovery: Healing 1 BODY (Can Heal Limbs), Reduced Endurance 0 END (+1/2), Persistent (+1/2) (30 Active Points); Extra Time (Regeneration-Only) 1 Turn (Post-Segment 12) (-1 1/4), Self Only (-1/2)

 

98 Variable Power Pool (Magic Pool), 68 base + 30 control cost, No Skill Roll Required (+1) (136 Active Points); Powers inside Require A Magic Skill Roll (-1/2), Variable Limitations (requires -1 worth of Limitations -1/2), Limited Class Of Powers Available (Magic) Slightly Limited (-1/4)

Notes: Must take -1 total minimum limitations from Gestures, incantations, extra time, focus, costs endurance and/or increased end.

0 1) Light Beam of Good: Energy Blast 9d6 (vs. ED), Armor Piercing x1 (+1/2) (67 Active Points); Requires A Magic Skill Roll (-1/2), IAF (Focus Staff; -1/2), Beam (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4), Gestures (-1/4) Real Cost: 24 7

0 2) Flight 7", x16 Noncombat, Usable Simultaneously (+1/2) (43 Active Points); OAF (Focus Magic Carpet; -1), Requires A Skill Roll (-1/2) Real Cost: 17 4

0 3) Rapid Carpet movement: Teleportation 4", Safe Blind Teleport (+1/4), Megascale (1" = 10000 km; +1 1/4), Can Be Scaled Down: 1" = 1km (+1/4) (22 Active Points); OAF (Focus Magic Carpet; -1), Must Pass Through Intervening Space (-1/4) Real Cost: 10 2

0 4) Increased Arc Of Perception (360-Degree) (Sight Group; Single Sense: Normal Hearing) (15 Active Points); Only througfh the senses of others Power loses about a third of its effectiveness (-1/2), Requires A Magic Skill Roll (-1/2), IAF (Focus Mask; -1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4) Real Cost: 5

0 5) Analyze Magic: (Total: 10 Active Cost, 4 Real Cost) Discriminatory Sense (Detect Magic) (5 Active Points); Requires A Skill Magic Roll (-1/2), Extra Time Delayed Phase (-1/4), Character May Take No Other Actions (-1/4), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4) (Real Cost: 2) plus Analyze Sense (Detect Magic) (5 Active Points); Requires A Skill Magic Roll (-1/2), Extra Time Delayed Phase (-1/4), Character May Take No Other Actions (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4), Gestures (-1/4) (Real Cost: 2) Real Cost: 4

 

 

 

[lemming]

Well, a mantle and a belt IMO are two different things.

 

I don't like Foci that also have "Only in Hero ID".

 

On the VPP, I only only certain players to have them. In this case, I'd make him write out any powers before hand. Only in an in character emergency would I allow him to make one up on the spot.

 

The character doesn't seem to be too bad, but overall, it makes me a little uneasy.

[phydaux]

Hmm... The character doesn't seem THAT differant from Mystica, a character of mine. See attachment.

[Argus]

I don't see anything wrong with Mystica

 

Originally posted by phydaux

Hmm... The character doesn't seem THAT differant from Mystica, a character of mine. See attachment.

 

But Mystica doesn't have +6 to DCV, cost end to Activeate Only, x4 End, IAF Only in Hero ID Put it in an EC, get a 30 point power for 4 points.

 

Just to name one power.

[phydaux]

Although one thing I DON'T see it point totals. i'm finding his layout a little hard to follow. How many points is this character?

[Argus]

Originally posted by phydaux

Although one thing I DON'T see it point totals. i'm finding his layout a little hard to follow. How many points is this character?

 

It is a 350 point character,

 

He had trouble with his Template power so he could only send it HTML and I can't post HTML here.

[Kristopher]

No.

 

The character seems a little tweaked for the sake of tweaking. I have no problem with shoehorning as long as it's for a good reason. The things done on this character don't appear to be done for any reason other than to milk more out of the points.

 

I see an EC with a power in it that has nothing to do with the EC (A viewing spell is not defensive magic, and there's no way to weasel around that one), another EC in a focus that's also OIHID that also contains nothing but Characteristics, AND a VPP.

[Solomon]

No way

 

There are quite a few things that bug me about this character...

 

1) Redundant limitations on a few powers, like IAF and OIHID. Seems he's trying to sqeeze a few extra points.

 

2) A 60+ points VPP. Usually I'm not comfrotable with VPP unless they're pretty small, or have severe limitations (like Gadget pools). Plus, how is the special effect "magic" considered a "limited class of powers"??? (-1/4) What is that you can't make with magic?

 

3) Clarsentience, precognition, postcognition. Tricky powers, they're ripe for abuse and make running mistery scenarios nearly impossible. Then again, this might just be my personal tastes.

 

4) 4" Flight, megascale 10.000 Km. Am I wrong or is this over Mach 60.000? Not including NCM? And the special effect is a flying carpet???

 

5) Mid-level PD and ED seems fine for a magician archetype, but... 50% physical and energy reduction? A whopping 14 DCV?? And REC 27???

 

If this character had been submitted to me, I'd send him packing back to Munchkin-land and have a chat with his player.

However, since this is your campaign, it's really up to you of course!

[Shikarr]

tweaked too much

 

Personally I wouldn't allow him in one of my games he has several things that raise my alarm bells.

First the character is simply too tweaked out. This seems to be way too overdone on limitations of his powers simply to cram as much as possible in as possible instead of balancing. But another question would be what are the rest of the group he is running with at point wise and is this character tring to make up experience points and is planning on buying off a lot of these limitations as the game goes on?

As others have mentioned he has one thing I never allow which is a OAF that is in OIHID. Those 2 I never alow together. Other than that one power which stands out which I can't seem to get past my filters is the Rapid Carpet Movement spell in his VPP which VPP raise my sheilds in any case but the spell Rapid Carpet Movement itself I wouldn't allow as he has built it. Or if I did I would use his own limitations on it against him at the first opportunity so that he would never use it again.

[Fireg0lem]

No way. I'm pretty lenient as things go, but this character is way over the top. The EC alone would be enough for me to disallow this character, it breaks so many rules and guidelines it's not funny. A short list:

1) OIHID and Focus on the same power - a no-no

2) EVERYTHING has costs end only to activate in order to fit it into the EC

3)Sensory powers in frameworks

4)End only to activate and increased END on a bunch of stuff - I'd halve the value of increased end, at the very least

5)This character seems like a bag'o'points VERY loosely shoehorned together with an overly broad "Magic" SFX. I don't have a problem with magic-using PCs, but I like them to have more coherency than this.

6) I pray he doesn't plan on using that Cosmetic Transform powers to transform his ordinary clothes into Focus clothes, thereby negating the disadvantage.

[Kristopher]

Originally posted by Fireg0lem

No way. I'm pretty lenient as things go, but this character is way over the top. The EC alone would be enough for me to disallow this character, it breaks so many rules and guidelines it's not funny. A short list:

1) OIHID and Focus on the same power - a no-no

2) EVERYTHING has costs end only to activate in order to fit it into the EC

3)Sensory powers in frameworks

4)End only to activate and increased END on a bunch of stuff - I'd halve the value of increased end, at the very least

5)This character seems like a bag'o'points VERY loosely shoehorned together with an overly broad "Magic" SFX. I don't have a problem with magic-using PCs, but I like them to have more coherency than this.

6) I pray he doesn't plan on using that Cosmetic Transform powers to transform his ordinary clothes into Focus clothes, thereby negating the disadvantage.

 

It's not just one thing...most of the individual things aren't utter and complete deal-breakers. It's the long list of things for which any 2 would be a deal-breaker.

[lemming]

Originally posted by Kristopher

It's not just one thing...most of the individual things aren't utter and complete deal-breakers. It's the long list of things for which any 2 would be a deal-breaker.

Having another chance of looking him over, it seems I'll agree with the majority.

 

Though you should have a prankster steal his belt to make his pants fall down.

[The Monster]

Not that I disagree with previous posts, but one question occurs to me: does the gestures & incantation limitations on the "defensive" EC mean that he can only activate one of them at a time? I mean, yes, given time, he could set them all up, but if attacked by surprise, would he have to put up his PD on one phase, his ED the next phase, etc? Or can he just pull up the whole array with a single act?

I ask because it reminds me of a character in my old FH campaign who had fairly impressive combat boost spells (extra DEX, FF, etc.), but he could only cast one per action. So by the time he got his mojo revved up, the fight would be mostly over. Now, he had Extra Time limits IIRC, so it might not be the same problem.

 

Besides the IAF and OIHI overlap, my objection on a quick scan is the END only to activate "limit" in the EC powers. It's a real cheap way to get huge defenses - one character in my current Champions has a vaguely similar VPP, and (due to my lack of experience) I let it in; but he has additional limitations - the most entertaining being that he has a Berserk that is triggered every time he uses those powers (he's a voudon houngan, and it reflects a loa just taking over and having its party) - so it hasn't been too unbalancing. Basic END cost for defenses is too cheap unless its a constant cost or there are other limits.

[Kristopher]

Originally posted by The Monster

Not that I disagree with previous posts, but one question occurs to me: does the gestures & incantation limitations on the "defensive" EC mean that he can only activate one of them at a time? I mean, yes, given time, he could set them all up, but if attacked by surprise, would he have to put up his PD on one phase, his ED the next phase, etc? Or can he just pull up the whole array with a single act?

I ask because it reminds me of a character in my old FH campaign who had fairly impressive combat boost spells (extra DEX, FF, etc.), but he could only cast one per action. So by the time he got his mojo revved up, the fight would be mostly over. Now, he had Extra Time limits IIRC, so it might not be the same problem.

 

My initial thought is that the same Gestures and Incantations would activate the entire EC, but I leave a more confident answer to others.

[phydaux]

I kind of have a rule that if I don't understand the character sheet on the first read through, then the character AT LEAST needs a re-write if not some changes.

 

And combining Focus and Hero ID Only is a big "nope" as per FREd.

[phydaux]

And then there's the question of just why the character needs a huge DCV, Damage Reduction AND a big-ass magic VPP?

 

Just what the hell is the character supposed to be? A Brick Mage Martial Artist?

[Farkling]

Maybe in my 500 point no-holds-barred game...

 

The one with the Magician packing the 100pt VPP, the Demon is modern Superman's combat class, the living nanotech colony, a Dragonball Z member (complete with staged Multiform) and a Manga character from X...

 

But in my 350? He wouldn't get in as is.

The IAF or the OHID has to go. No focusses with OHID limits...I'm adamant about that, unles it is a WELL DESCRIBED charcter and background (an older version of Marvel's Thor might get it). IF I allowed it, I would snag his foci at first chance, or break them...Drain is a nice tool, and I don't see any Power Defense....

 

I'd bet real money the player thinks that if he turns BACK to himself, the Foci cease to exist until he transforms agian, and that they'll be in his hands. Woe unto thee oh player, you are wrong. Either the foci stick around, or stick around and temporarily lose power, or the player is STUCK in Hero ID. Heh heh heh.

 

Two EC's and a VPP if I read this right. No way. Maybe an EC and a Multipower for the suite, but it is likely NOT. An EC for "inherent thought directed spells" and a Multipower for learned spells might be acceptable...THREE frameworks? No way.

 

Also...Defenses, DCV, Attacks seem to be pushing a campaign limit. Huh-uh. And that fire and forget magic defense array is NOT superheroic Dr. Strange style magic.

 

Another note, I have had characters want to use Gestures and Incantations in a Superhero game, and then tell me that they COULD execute the spell tied up or immobilized (by saying the words subconsciously or going through nearly the right motions). I have had them buy Extra Time instead to mimic the "universal" gestures and incantations.

 

It looks Munchkin to me. Frameworks for "indestructible brick powers", followed by a VPP for attacks and "the defenses I forgot about." END only to Activate, Focus, OHID, Gestures, Incantations...all point stacking weaknesses of questionable weakness variety. you need a conversation with the PC. Defensive Magics is NOT an EC in my book. Smells like "EC: Defense Powers"...I refuse constructs of that nature on general principle.

 

END only to activate:: Spells tremendously draining to set up that then run forever.

Focus:: pants and shirt ... c'mon....where's the Mystic Amulets? Rings of Power? Eldritch Wards?

OHID:: I tap my magic stick on the ground and take on the mantle of Dr. Fate.

Gestures, Incantations:: two of the most commonly recommended AGAINST limitations for SuperHero games.

 

Tie him, gag him, he's helpless...except for all those "costs END only to activate" spells that he had on...

 

I say thee nay. Explain to the player that limitations of this level will "take you out of the game" at least 75% of the time, reducing him to his poor collection of stats and skills...company translator.

[Vondy]

to perdition with this character

 

There is a difference between a character that is the product of elegant design, clever munchkinism, and blatant dink-fu. I tend to be fairly lenient (I respect clever munchkining insofar as its in moderation), but...

 

This character is a product of blantant dink-fu. There's a laundry list with this character that is almost tipping me into sam kinison-esque rant mode, but I'll hold back and point out some things that raise my hackles:

 

OHID & Focus Combos

Extra End Only At Start-Up used to slide powers into what would otherwise be a no-no EC design.

Gestures & Incantations are questionable for the genre

Limitations for their own sake

Multiple ECs AND a VPP? What?!

 

I will summarize:

 

AAAAAAAAAAAAAH!

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!

[ChuckB]

-The VPP is a little high (how familiar is the pc with the Hero System ?)

 

- The EC needs to be a little more defined and some of the powers are not exactly framework-legal , but I'm normally pretty lenient about that.

 

- Is the PC sure he wants to be a Spd 3 ? What are the other Spd values in the rest of the team ?

[Kristopher]

The EC has a +1 SPD in it.

[Fireg0lem]

Re: to perdition with this character

 

Originally posted by D-Man

There is a difference between a character that is the product of elegant design, clever munchkinism, and blatant dink-fu. I tend to be fairly lenient (I respect clever munchkining insofar as its in moderation), but...

 

SNIP

 

I will summarize:

 

AAAAAAAAAAAAAH!

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!

I hear you, D-man, and fully agree.

 

YAAAAARRRRGGGGHHHHH!

 

To be honest, the only characters worse than this are the ones I built for the express purpose of discovering if certain types of character constructs were broken, and a few individuals (such as Blowfish Man, the infinite-aid-loop abuser, and Time-Beater, XDM "time stop" + Transdimensional attacks) on these boards, made for the express purpose of demonstrating such. The more I think about this character, the more inclined I am to suggest you grab a copy of FREd and beat him over the head with it, shouting NO! NO! NO!

[Trebuchet]

Re: Re: to perdition with this character

 

Originally posted by Fireg0lem

The more I think about this character, the more inclined I am to suggest you grab a copy of FREd and beat him over the head with it, shouting NO! NO! NO!

In fact, this might be a good time to inquire if DoJ is planning on coming out with a heavy-steel-jacketed version of FREd.

 

More seriously, it certainly looks to me like this is an experienced player testing the GM to see what he can get away with. There are just too many flakey aspects to the construction for me to think this is accidental.

 

Nein. Non. Nyet. Iye. No.

[Pattern Ghost]

I wouldn't allow the character, and I wouldn't allow the player.

[zornwil]

I can't add too much. I'm more lenient than most, but it certainly needs something to balance its too-many strengths, particularly the see-all aspects of it, all the ECs, etc.. Also, very minor nitpick I don't think I saw yet, he's got IAF on one of the ECs, but one of the powers below says the focus is his pants - not very "accessible" unless - well - he's that way.

 

Yeah, it needs to be reeled in a lot. Tightened concept would be good, and just some big bad weaknesses that will limit some of these powers.