Dealing with MultiPower in game

[Zotman]

What is the best way to handle variable slot multi-powers in game, on the fly.  For example, someone uses the power ring shown in the Champions Complete on page 210.  They have a lot of options of how to distribute their point reserve.  When the slots all have different advantages and disadvantages adjusting the cost of the power in the slot, what is the easiest way to have someone handle distributing the points from phase to phase?  For example they want to have 12 meters of flight.  Do they then have to calculate the real cost of that flight based on ads and disads, subtract that from the available pool, and then do the same thing for any other powers they want to use?  Someone must have figured out a good way to manage this. Help please.

 

Thank you

[dsatow]

When I use variable slots in a multipower, I design the slots to be simple to adjust.  So, usually a power has no more than one or two advantages if any.  For me, as long as the advantages aren't over +1 (unless its a multiple of +1), it's easy for me in my head to calculate the cost.

 

The other way is to make simple break points and then always use the powers within those break points.  For instance, if you have a 60 point multipower pool, a good break point is 15.  So I figure out each powers cost and effects at those break points.

 

You can merge both methods too.  For instance, a +1/4 advantage at break point of 15 is 12 active points of power or about 2DC.  A +1/4 advantage at breakpoint 30 will be twice that at 24 active or about 5 DCs.

[BoloOfEarth]

I second dsatow's suggestion.  Try and keep it as simple as possible.  One of my player's characters has a gadget pool (VPP with 45 point Pool and Control), so I drew up a list of sample gadgets with costs at 5-point break points (10, 15, 20, 25, etc.).  She can create something else on the fly, but this makes it easier for her to pick and choose.

 

If the player insists on keeping things too wonky to figure easy break points, though, I would suggest the player figure out the most common combos they'll use.  For instance, if the ring is a 125-point Pool with variable slots for Flight (with +3/4 Advantages), Resistant Protection (with +1/2 Advantages), plus a bunch of attack powers (various sets of Advantages ranging from +1/4 to +2) -- he might make a list like:  

• (a) 17 points Flight (10m)
• (b)  35 points Flight (20m)
• (c)  61 points Flight (35m)
• (d)  22 points Resistant Protection (+5 rPD / +5 rED)
• (e)  45 points Resistant Protection (+10 rPD / +10 rED)
• (f)  63 points Resistant Protection (+14 rPD / +14 rED)
• (g)  94 points Attack 1 (15 DC with +1/4 Advantage)
• (h)  81 points Attack 1 (13 DC with +1/4)
• (i)  62 points Attack 1 (10 DC with +1/4)
• (j)  97 points Attack 2 (13DC with +1/2)
• (k)  82 points Attack 2 (11 DC with +1/2)
• (l)  60 points Attack 2 (8 DC with +1/2)
• ... and so on.

Thus, he could choose:

• either (a) or (d) + either (g) or (j) for 111-119 points
• (a) + (d) + either (h) or (k) for a total of 120-121 points
• (b) + (d) + either (i) or (l) for 117-119 points
• either (c) or (f) + either (i) or (l) for 121-125 points
• ... and so on.

And if they player is a munchkin who has to use up every last point in the Pool ("but I might be able to get an extra +1 damage for those 3 points!"), either he makes a list of every possible option, or you find a way to push him along.  ("Okay, Power Ring's turn."  "Hold on a sec, I'm still trying to figure out which powers I want."  (waits a minute)  "Okay, so while Power Ring is trying to optimize his powers, we go to Armadillo."  "Hey, wait a minute!  I'm not ready yet!"  "Sorry, Ted, but the bad guys don't seem to want to honor your 'time out' request.  So either s**t or get off the pot.")

[massey]

Yeah, variable slots can be useful, but I've found that in practice you end up mostly using the same sets of powers again and again.  You'll find a sweet spot, and then you don't have a lot of reason to vary from it.

 

To take a really simple example, let's say you have a 60 point Multipower, with a 12D6 Energy Blast and a 12D6 Flash vs Sight.  And we'll say those are your only slots.  Well, it's unlikely that you're going to go with something like a 4D6 Energy Blast + 8D6 Flash.  It's available, but in practice it's not going to be really all that useful.  Most of the time you'll probably end up using either all Energy Blast, or all Flash, or mostly Energy Blast with a little Flash.  Once you sort of figure out the best combinations, you'll normally stick with them.

 

For a big, complex Multipower with lots of slots that can be used in different combinations, I'd still suggest coming up with some standard settings that you use frequently.  Like you can have "all attack", or "all movement", or "little bit of everything".  Work it out ahead of time, and you can always fiddle with it when you have a spare moment.  But if you're going to use a character that has a huge amount of versatility, I think it's only fair to the GM and the other players that you give a little thought to how you'll use it so you aren't holding up the game.

 

Personally, I keep a copy of HeroDesigner on my laptop.  And when using a VPP or a Multipower with variable slots (I tend to lean towards VPP rather than the latter), I just create a new power on the computer, scale it up to the desired level, and look at the cost.  It takes like two seconds, and I try to do it before it's my turn.  While those martial artists are punching and kicking on phases 6 and 7, I'm deciding how my powers will be allocated when phase 8 comes up.

[BoloOfEarth]

On 9/16/2018 at 2:33 PM, Zotman said:

What is the best way to handle variable slot multi-powers in game, on the fly.  For example, someone uses the power ring shown in the Champions Complete on page 210.  They have a lot of options of how to distribute their point reserve.  When the slots all have different advantages and disadvantages adjusting the cost of the power in the slot, what is the easiest way to have someone handle distributing the points from phase to phase?  For example they want to have 12 meters of flight.  Do they then have to calculate the real cost of that flight based on ads and disads, subtract that from the available pool, and then do the same thing for any other powers they want to use?  Someone must have figured out a good way to manage this. Help please.

 

Thank you

(bolding added above)

 

One clarification:  with the Multipower you're considering the Active Points vs. the Multipower's pool, not the Real Cost.  So let's say you have a 120-point Multipower pool with three variable slots:

• up to 10d6 Blast with AP (+1/4), Half END (+1/4), OIF Power Ring (-1/2)  [75 AP, 50 RP]
• up to 50m Flight with 0 END (+1/2), OIF Power Ring (-1/2)  [75 AP, 50 RP]
• up to 20 rPD / 20 rED Resistant Protection, Hardened (+1/4), Impenetrable (+1/4), OIF Power Ring (-1/2)  [90 AP, 60 RP]

So you could have, for example, 10m Flight @ 0 END (15 AP), 10 rPD / 10 rED Hardened Impenetrable (45 AP) and then 8d6 AP Blast @ Half END (60 AP), for 15 + 45 + 60 = 120.  Or no Flight (0 AP), 10 rPD / 10 rED Hardened Impenetrable (45 AP) plus 10d6 AP Blast @ Half END (75 AP), for 45 + 75 = 120.  Or 20m Flight @ 0 END (30 AP) + 20 rPD / 20 rED Hardened Impenetrable (90 AP) for 30 + 90 = 120.

 

It's NOT 10m Flight @ 0 END (10 RP) + 20 rPD / 20 rED Hardened Impenetrable (60 RP) + 10d6 AP Blast @ Half END (50 RP) for 10 + 60 + 50 = 120.

[Zotman]

Thanks for the clarification.  That also helps cut down at least one step of math a well.

[IndianaJoe3]

5 hours ago, massey said:

For a big, complex Multipower with lots of slots that can be used in different combinations, I'd still suggest coming up with some standard settings that you use frequently.  Like you can have "all attack", or "all movement", or "little bit of everything".  Work it out ahead of time, and you can always fiddle with it when you have a spare moment.  But if you're going to use a character that has a huge amount of versatility, I think it's only fair to the GM and the other players that you give a little thought to how you'll use it so you aren't holding up the game.

 

I did something like this for the experimental 175-pt version of Carver (telekinetic surfer dude). He could fly fast, fly at average speeds and have a good defense, or hover, have a good defense and throw stuff around. Despite all his variable slots, he only really had 3-4 options.

[eepjr24]

Second to the above. Complex MP's (generally those with more than one flex slot) I use the same rules as suggested above, you get some time to decide and then I move on. This is the same rules that i use for VPP's that can be changed in combat. If it is a consistent problem with a player who refuses to pre-calculate oft used combinations, I use something like https://e.ggtimer.com/ and give them 30 seconds or a minute. At first it seems harsh, but most people get the point pretty quickly, figure out their common scenarios and I drop the timer.

 

If the player has trouble with the math, I have zero problems building it out for them or giving them an Excel sheet that allows them to do it themselves pretty easily (yes, it's custom per MP, but not that hard to do). I do find that some people just don't like the math aspects and that's fine since I have been doing this long enough that it's trivial now.

 

- E

[LoneWolf]

Our group has a house rule that if your character is too complex for you to handle without slowing down the game it is not allowed.  For example if you are not familiar enough with the system to create powers on the fly you a VPP is generally not allowed, or you have to have all the powers worked out in advance.  This is mainly in combat and more flexibility is allowed out of combat. 

 

As others have suggested having a precompiled list of combinations should fix most of the problems. 

[Zotman]

Thanks for all the feedback.  Pretty much confirms what I had been thinking.  Now to get my gang convinced to play Hero System.