Christopher

11 hours ago, Hugh Neilson said:

Why do we need any "NCM Doubles Cost" feature?  A simple campaign rule setting these limits would work fine, in my view.

I need at least as much planning security during character creation as NCM gives me.

On 1/25/2019 at 10:42 PM, massey said:

We're still arguing because you keep saying crap like this: 

That post was my first post since monday.

And my last on topic one was on 14th of January.

Please enlighten me how that works out?

On 1/25/2019 at 10:42 PM, massey said:

There are lots of book legal ways to do it, not just the Christopher way.

Then name them. And stop calling me a fanatic.

1 hour ago, Ninja-Bear said:

Fwiw, when I was looking over sample attack builds, under water they have for TK Affects Poros so in hindsight, it being left out is an errata.

Or it is now a default feature of TK. And it still being in that old build is the Errata part

10 hours ago, Badger said:

 

Well, I wasn't going to get into that one but, I find with my older pants the button should be first because without doing so old zippers seem to want to de-zip themselves

I have the same issue. I need to button first to allow easy Zipping.

Unfortunatly I do forget to Zip up quite a lot.

8 hours ago, Badger said:

well, for the Go-Bots, I'd prefer to say they and Transformers were exclusively created without knowledge of the other.  Because other that the helicopter guy they were lame (and his name was lame so there).  No one would be inspired by them. 

Go-Bots came first.

Transformers was better and is better remembered.

Same way BetaMax and HD DVD were once a thing.

11 hours ago, Michael Hopcroft said:

I know prophecies, warnings, and omens are an integral part of most fantasy campaigns -- after all. they were important in LOTR. But what if the prophecy that sends the PCs towards a quest was false, or if it was somebody's psychotic delusion? 

 

"He's the Chosen One" is a common prophecy. And of course, by the time he realizes nobody chose him, he'll have made such great strides that he is already a hero. But how does such a hero react to the revelation that he wasn't originally all that important?

 

"(insert person or group here) will destroy the world!" almost goes without saying. It can be pointed at just about anybody -- regardless of their actual nature or intent. We've got so many real-world references to cite that I don't need to mention any of them by name.

Something I like for Prophecies is the Uncertainty Principle:

the uncertainty principle, a way of dealing with Predictions and Prophecies in RPG's that no amount of player activity or inactivity can break

Use it as the base rule, and I doubt any player can break it.

6 hours ago, shuddemell said:

Miculek is an anomaly, he is super fast and super accurate, but definitely proves that a motivated and skilled rifleman can accomplish more than a machine gun nest.

Machine Guns were never intended to kill the enemy. Supressing them is their job. Intentional machine gun hits were extremely rare.

For further info, try to find any discusion about "Statting out Dr. Who". His "reborn with a new Actor playing the role" is pretty similar to this.

4 hours ago, MechaniCat said:

From a special effect standpoint the maneuver involves shooting an opponent (who is assumed to be able to dodge bullets) with intent to miss. the idea being you are cordoning off an area (similar to suppression fire), trying to get your opponent to dodge left as opposed to right or otherwise bait you opponent into a certain behavior, by shooting at them in a calculated way. Very anime Gun Fu type stuff. 

 

The intention of this power is to reduce an opponent(s) DCV from duress or position control. Campaign rules are that guns can't have an OCV above a certain value, and therefore Gunslingers must reduce a target's DCV to be effective. This is the in game mechanic for the assumption that strong warriors can dodge bullets. People can get faster so they can buy however much OCV they want, but bullets are always the same speed regardless of the shooter, so the OCV has a hard cap. 

In a general Rule, Hero does not "do" duels very well. The system is optimized for Group combat, as most RPG's are.

Coordinated Attacks (6E2 44)

The target of a coordinated attack is subject to the "multiple attackers" penalty. Most people only consider it for the "check for being STUNNED" part. But it does have this effect too.

Spreading an attack (6E2 49) allows you to trade off DC for OCV or Area of Effect.

Another option is to force the target to "abort to dive for cover". And then use the built-in DCV penalties to allow followup attacks to hit better.

On 1/24/2019 at 5:56 PM, Hermit said:

I'm not going to lie, my first thought was ...how do we turn this into a game setting? 

On 1/24/2019 at 6:41 PM, Old Man said:

Are we going to limit ourselves to something boring like a torus for that?

On 1/24/2019 at 7:27 PM, Lord Liaden said:

Nah...

 

 

I raise you:

Yes, those are continents rotating in 6 fixed orbits around a core.

You can also fit them together to a get a full "shell" around the core.

And apparently that was only one of the planets the "creator" made. He seemed to have had a thing for wierd planets...

4 hours ago, Tjack said:

   I do a 7, but I have a question I don’t think anybody asked.    Why do you ask?   

   Is there supposed to be some significance to a persons answer or is this a “button then zip or zip then button” kind of thing.

It seems to be a fad/sharepic going around the internet. I first saw it on Facebook. Wich is the reason I had a answer so quickly.

I quote this from the original thread:

On 1/23/2019 at 12:32 PM, Jayzon said:

A human looking alien gadgeteer always dressed in a black suit (tie and accented glowy parts of his eyes and mouth varies in color), thus he is known only as Mr. Suit. His head and hands and forearms were damaged in such way that completely replacing them for bionic ones were they only way to save him. The technology that saved him was space age nanotechnology (did I mention he was an alien?). He is a technopath that can manipulate, control, and rearrange the nanotech that composes his suit (No telepathy or mind blast powers; not that kind of psychic).

Being able to shift your body/armor is not a power. It is a special effect that can be used to justify every power in the book. And I am not even exagarating!

On 1/23/2019 at 12:32 PM, Jayzon said:

So you can get a feel of what I am trying to build. As a person he should have a nice list of skills at his disposal (a few perks too?). His style is a mix of charm, negotiator, and rogue.

You can not really make a combat capable character that is also skill heavy. This is one of the biggest issue with pointbuy systems: Not being able to focus on a core concept.

And how relevant skill rolls will be can also vary widly by group.

Limitations can be a way to add more skills:

1) Build the Characters combat side as normal

2) Apply some Limitations. "Krytonian Powers", "Only in Alternate Identity", "Not in strong magnetic fields".

3) use the freed up points to add some skills he can use when his powers are disabeled.

Now the big danger here is that you spend those points on more powers. Try to avoid taht.

On 1/23/2019 at 12:32 PM, Jayzon said:

A) Main Defense: he can rearrange his suit into protective armor.

On 1/23/2019 at 12:32 PM, Jayzon said:

Main offense: he prefers ranged attacks and only does melee when forced to. always has a gun hidden in his suit. he can rearrange it and shift it into a shotgun, rifle, LAW, or a blade weapon. when it shifts it works differently (different powers; killing attack, AoE, etc.)

I would say, buy defenses and offenses as typical for a "Blaster" Character.

I would skip the part about his suit morphing into armor - just have the armor always on.  After all he has survived being blown up just recently, being a bit paranoid regarding further explosions is justified.

On 1/23/2019 at 12:32 PM, Jayzon said:

C) Main Non-Combat Travel: creates a motorcycle for his noncombat movement. not considering it have weapons (maybe something like leap to make impressive riding stunts or somesuch), its just for travel or escape. On the other end of the spectrum it could instead shift and become his heavy power armor to combat metas, but this is a cool afterthought, not what am shooting for. Travel:

On 1/23/2019 at 12:32 PM, Jayzon said:

D) Main Combat Travel: considering since its a variable point pool or multiform enhancing his running and making a gadget that gives him flight, but is not carried around w/ him at all times.

While a bit questionable ruleswise, it is possible to make a "Movement Multipower". A Multipower - seperate from his gun Multipower - that has nothing but movement power slots.

The Motorcycle could be him just having a Megascale movement power. A megascaling factor of 1-2 can get you far. You may want to add some reduced endurance/0 END, as otherwise questions might come up on how fit he reaches combat.

22 hours ago, Duke Bushido said:

Is Reduced Penetration still a thing in the new edition?  If it is, well...  Honestly, I love it for shotguns.

It is still there. 6E1 388 if you are looking for it.

6 hours ago, Toxxus said:

I've seen a similar level of output on a show that was like Deadliest Warrior where they were pitting cowboys vs. mafia.

 

The cowboy rifleman fatally wounded 5 targets with partial cover in 4 seconds flat.  On a per second basis he out damaged the hand grenade and finished the contest with a better kill rate from a safer distance.

 

A skilled rifleman is a very, very scary thing. 

I guess we can all agree that real life has a terrible game balance. I mean every normal can kill 4 people with wild shooting

In all seriousness, I think the imbalance is really hard to model. If you unbalance stuff like that, it is usually the characters that will suffer the most.

21 hours ago, Badger said:

 

ok, now I am not the only freak who does it 2 different ways

19 hours ago, Pattern Ghost said:

 

Makes three of us. I noticed, after reading this thread, that I sometimes also do 8.

I already said I do it several ways back on page 1

On 1/12/2019 at 7:28 PM, dekrass said:

Fair point. Specificity is often helpful.

I'm trying to replicate a series of spells that all just make different weapons. They were made in O.L.D. Which is a game with a flexible magic system in which you build your spells based on a bunch of variable parts with magic point costs attached.

One of the original spells looked like this.

Instant Longsword

Create Metal

Cost 2MP ; Skills creation 1

Casting Time 1 action

Duration 1 minute

Range: touch ; Target: object created

You create a longsword. It is medium and does 3d6+2 slashing damage. It weighs 4 pounds.

Costs: 1MP create object, 1MP duration

 

The above constitutes a simple low level spell in that game. I'm trying to translate that into a heroic HERO 6th edition game. The GM has decided to make all spells part of a multipower framework. Spells must have either gestures or incantations, usually both. All spells require a casting roll. All spells cost endurance, and the spellcasting multipower draws from an endurance reserve.

The example spell would have a simple base. A HERO 6e longsword would need 4 DCs, strength minimum 12, reduced endurance, and a linked 1m reach. The tricky part is the requirements of the campaign's spell system.

 

As an aside, are there guidelines in the books for how much damage characters should be doing? If so, where might I find them?

In case you wonder why we are still arguing:

While there is 1 path in RAW, the price can be an issue. One rule is "you get what you pay for", but that in turn means powers should not be too expensive either.

The RAW way is Hand to Hand Killing Attack, 0 END* Useable by others, with proper advantages and limitations. Propably something generic like "only Weapons for Campaign Weapons List (-1/2)"

*Otherwise you have to pay Endurance to use the Damaging Power

While that is the book legal way, it might be too expensive for the Effect.

Object Creation and Transform are generally locked out for "creating effects that other powers cover". With weapons being explicitly mentioned. I think the danger is that you might summon and sell those weapons, effectively getting wealth. Or end up equipping the whole City Garission/Rebellion with weapons, effectively sidestepping a adventure part.

I still think the 1 minute duration greatly limits that. Anything more might not work, even 5 minutes might be too much.

One option I remember from the APG's is what I call the "Naked Buyoff". Basically you create a power whose sole purpose is to remove another power (or piecee of equipments) limitation.

It is mentioned in APG I 142.

The Limitation you want to get rid off (or at least lessen) is the Focus Limitation on those weapons. Most weapons have "Obvious Accessible Focus (-1)". You want to get rid of the accessible part (can no longer be disarmed) and possibly the obvious part, buying it all the way down to -1/4 at worst. Or maybe even only the obvious part (you are not seen as armed until you want too).

And of course there is the option that the GM could just invent a power.

37 minutes ago, Toxxus said:

1-  Two-Handed weapon wielders can Multiple Attack two enemies in reach in a big sweeping attack, but not the same opponent multiple times due to their size and weight.

Spreading an attack (6E2 49) :
" Alternately, a character may Spread his attack to hit more than one target. Te character loses 1 Damage Class for each 1m radius Area he wants to fll with his attack."

Two Handed weapons are high DC, so easier to loose a few DC.

37 minutes ago, Toxxus said:

2-  Dual Wielders can Multiple Attack the same enemy twice, but not hit separate opponents.   I'm not completely happy with the way this one feels.

Combined Attack (6E2 74):
"Using two or more powers or similar abilities (but not Combat/Martial Maneuvers or the like) once against a single target isn’t a Multiple Attack. It’s a Combined Attack, and counts as type of Strike. Terefore it has no OCV penalty, doesn’t halve the attacker’s DCV, and doesn’t take a Full Phase to perform."

Even if the weapons are not the same size, I would consider them a Combined attack.

37 minutes ago, Toxxus said:

3-  One-Handed weapon wielders that leave one hand empty can do weapon damage after a one-handed Grab maneuver instead of squeezing or throwing.  A dirty fighting favorite - the Grab and Stab.

That is only an issue with the Free Attack you get to begin with (6E2 62):
"Afer performing a Grab, in that same Segment a character can only Squeeze, Slam, or Trow the target as an immediate attack. He can’t use any other maneuvers or attacks (unless the GM so permits, and even in that case, using another attack should mean releasing the Grab in most circumstances). In later Phases he can use any attacks he wants (provided he has the free limbs or other means to do so)."

In all following phases you could always use your weapon.

37 minutes ago, Toxxus said:

4-- Weapon and Shield fighters can Multiple Attack alternating weapon and shield bash. 

I am pretty sure that is allowed by RAW. The equipment section even deals with questions like "What is the Weapon Lenght of a Shield?"

Something maybe worth picking up is HSMA. It has some intersting new Maneuvers, like "Bind" - wich disables a enemy weapon.

15 hours ago, Hugh Neilson said:

NCM is not, to my mind, a useful construct.  It makes stats more expensive, so it directs players to buy something else instead.  It suggests, but does not enforce, a limit. 

That is the definitio nof a Softcap rather then a Hard cap.

15 hours ago, Hugh Neilson said:

As to the "soft/hard cap", I would much rather set campaign guidelines (hard or soft), but let the players get what they pay for.

As a soft cap is by definition not a hard cap, it needs something else to help  enforce it. Something that is severe enough to mater, but not as severe as "can not exceed, ever!"

And increasing the cost past a certain point is the only thing that comes to my mind as well.

15 hours ago, Hugh Neilson said:

Maybe Dwarves get to buy a 25 STR with no explanation beyond being a Dwarf, while others would need a very solid explanation to exceed 20 (and likely would  not get to push another stat above 20 as well).

That is just a hard cap with "GM decision".

I play a lot of Paradox games lately. So I do know about the differences between Hard and Soft Caps, how they work, and what their purpose is.

10 hours ago, Old Man said:

 

Yeah, but I didn't have a telescope back then.

That would make you older then the Human species. I doubt it

Obvious Inaccsible Focus has it's merit. In the sense that it is hard to deprive you of it's use, because it comes back to you. Maybe even change it down to "Restrainable" (you can be restrained from using it or the flier itself can be restrained). Or just let the limtiations out entirely. Remember that limitations are something you pick because you want it. If I do not want my power amor to be destructible, I build it with "Only in Alternate Identity" rather then Focus. No limitation is mandatory in Superheroics, no mater how "logical" they appear.

Telekinesis/Blast, Indirect with the Special Effect "ram the Glider into the target via remote control" would also work. Indeed it would work without any penalties to hitting as it is a "personal" power.

Another approach might be Clairsentience. As you control the glider (I am not sure how to build a Remote Control on both ends; but I think some Radio/HRRP would be enough), as long as you can see through it you can maneuver it however you like. Do however note that Clairsentience needs a extra "Targetting" adder, to use your targetting senses effectively. Reliably aiming via Clairsentience is not trivial.

Finally there is the option that the Glider can act independantly. All Vehicles have a SPD, but they lack the abiltiy to decide what to do. This one has the will to decide on actions.

The flight function would be easy - just give it enough STR to carry you and as much flight as you want.

Vehicle with Computer or Automaton Follower could both work for this.

2 hours ago, Sean Waters said:

It is a horrible experience for both of them so she is not going to kill herself just to change up her powers.  She has no control over the powers she gets (although, obviously, I do, building her). 

As you just noticed, there is a difference between "not under Character Control" and "not under Player control".

Banners transformation into the Hulk was not under Banners (Character) control. But odly they mostly happened when the Hulk was needed. Almost as if they were under player control

Even if the Character is not "suicidal", the player might run her as the "Heroic Sacrifice" type.

What you decribe sounds a lot like Posession (APG 1 has two builds for that). But this might just be the SFX of this ability.

If it happens rarely, then it is really just "roll up a new Character". There is no power build needed from this.

Maybe include a "Previous Life Knowledge" skill in all the new Characters, to simulate that this character knows the group and vice versa. Asuming the GM and Group insists on that much detail. Not every group does:
https://youtu.be/oSynJyq2RRo?t=1739

3 hours ago, Starlord said:

Look out flat-earthers, the donut-earthers are coming for you!

 

 

 

I am seriously tempted to just consider that a Mental Illness, so these people can get the help they need.

16 hours ago, Ninja-Bear said:

I think a better comparison is this: is it fair that a dragon warrior has to pay for his scaly hide when a human just gets the same leather armor for free? I mean rPD is rPD. Or how about even a wizard casting a Burning Hand spell and a warrior gets a sword for free? KA is KA.

Those exampels do not work. Swords and armors can be taken or be illegal in any jurisdiction.

Also unless something odd is going on, that Scaly Skin would add to any worn armor. So not really a good example.

10 hours ago, Lucius said:

I have to disagree with this. A tool is something that either enables or renders easier a task. Normal Characteristic Maxima is something that LOOKS like a tool but doesn't actually do anything that could not be as easily done without it.

Campaign limits are a hardcap. NCM is a Softcap.

A softcap can do, what no hard cap could. So it is a tool with additional properties.

21 hours ago, Pariah said:

 

 

Would "engraved on metal plates" be entirely inappropriate?

How about engraved in the magnetic dust of a rotating disk, or the state of relays?

@wcw43921 Sounds like we got 3 choices. Time to make a decision.