Christopher

Re: Multiform Even easier: if the small human isn't part of the action, just buy the need to reverse Transform and let her life her normal, unaware life this way: Subject to Orders "The Other Life", how oft you want it to be a part of the game. Depoendance: Must transform back, or suffer....

Re: Multiform He has time and again shown that he was a brilliant scientist. Strong enough to foil the military for a long, long time. 400 pt, with 80 going into the hulk leave 320 to buy Skills, INT and whatever else he had. And we can just leave out the 75 Complications, thus making him 400-75-80 = 240 Points. Also, how doesn't it allow you to build a lower level "true form"? You can just buy the Small Human Form as Multiform for the big one (4 Points). You don't revert and it would be a -0 Limitation to say if you do, you go to the smaller. Or you just say: Multiform can only grow as fast as other characters. True form only can put as many points into skills, charactersitics, perks and the like as he put in Multiform. Effectively you invalidate a lot of XP wich seems to be what you want to do.

Re: Some rules questions about Fantasy HERO Talents and Combat Maneuvers As I heard it form here, Whirlwind is just a HTH-Range AOE effect with extra Time (Full Phase). Afaik you can use most martial maneuvers with AOE attacks that take a Full Phase. Haymaker and Move Through are the one that specifically forbid it, since the attack takes to much time (they are designed with fast, half-phase attacks in mind). The only effect a different Boni on OCV and DCV and Damage, so it's more of a tactical decission if you make a "Offesnive Strike Whirlwind" or a "Defensive Strike Whirlwind". How much you value Being Protected (DCV) vs. doing Damage/Hitting. Of coure, I don't have the rules for those feats so I may be wrong, but I would just treat them as any other power or skill.

Re: Multiform Again. Why would you? You are still in a 200-pt game, so the only thing you get is a more fragile/useless true form. You don't get more XP for being weaker in True Form or anything else. And if she grows faster, it is irrelevant: She still is a heck of a lot of points behind everyone else in the group. 140. So there is absolutely no benefit in only taking 60 Points form the 200 and build your character with it and when the Alternate form started with 200 pt in a 200 pt game and isn't allowed to grow faster than the others, there is not the slightest inbalance in the system. Or did I miss anything?

Re: Multiform Wait. You have 200 Points allowed but a player only chooses to use 40 Multiform +20 = 60 Points? Seriously, such a build is not really what MF is designed for. It designed that a character of say 200 Points buys a MF of roughly equal size, or the MF lower. But a Multiform taht is 10 Times as big as the real form? What is the build? What is the whole picture here? Please tell us why anyone would build this or what it is supposed to represent.

Re: Hello new hero here.

Re: Multiform Again: The true form and only the true form gets or spends XP. The points the true form invests into the multiform, go 1 to 5 Into Multiform Points and you can treat/write them down as if they were XP (buying of complications, increasing powers, etc...). That the rule has the intent to tie True and Multiform growth to the same level, is the reason you asked for it: balancing. So no player can just put every XP into the Multiform and thus get 5 times the Points the other player get. And it is only one way to keep the balance, and as Hugh may say not the best. Please give us the example character, at least with values for overall pt for the true form. Points, andvantages and limitations spend on Multiform and the Overall points of all Alternate forms. Otherwise we can hardly talk on even terms.

Re: Anubis? There was this one episode of gargoyles (2-30), where there were two avatars of anubis: A possible background for the character: And what happened after that: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhsymQgun6A&feature=related They had very different powers. The first had: Superfast Aging (RKA vs. Objects), an "Aging" Drain (STR, CON, DEX), transform to baby form... Maybe NND's where defense is living long (1 or 2 points?). The other was more like a sage/supporter: Reverse transformation, Aid/Heal Drain, great wisdom and knowledge. The more beneficial factors come forth: Protection of the Spirit in the way to the afterlife, rebirth, Protector of the Body of death people,... There also is this mixed up cult, that use elements from Anubis and Hermes: uten-ha/Sa-ka/Cynopolis. How would they stand towards him?

Re: Hello new hero here.

Re: Everyman Complications According to the book you don't get points for everyman-Complications(6E1 417). Don't let the fact that CvK is required in some champion games fool you, that is something different. Let's got some from the other thread: "Will to Live" (doesn't want to be killed) "Shame" (doesn't want to ben naked in front of most people) "Machine Mind"

Re: Multiform When you put limitations into the mix, then change the rule accordingly that it says: You can only get 5 Points for your alternate froms for every 5 your true form gets. And it is solved. When you put advantages into the mix, it get's slightly more complicated. Or simply use the intent of the rule: The Alternate forms schouldn't grow faster than the Real Form grows and shouldn't start beyond what your character was allowed. The other thing is, her human form isn't "sitting in limbo" sure, her body and skills are, but her mind is in the bear form. As such, experiences from bear form carry over to human form. You could complicate the entire XP-Gaining/Spending Process to make it more realistic, but that would hardly be fun. Also, we still asume that the characters have 200 pt allowed for them. If not, I wonder why this player was allowed to take a form with up to 8 times her own total points? Could you give us the complete description of the character/multiform, especially what advantages/limitations, what points they are build on, etc?

Re: PRE attacks on PCs

Re: Multiform The entire process of "upgrading" the multiforms is detailed on 6E1 269. It's sugested the players uses common sense, the GM revievs every change or you simply use a "Only 1 XP out of 6 can go into multiform"-rule. That way, the alternate forms will never get unbalacing strong. Also, alternate forms do not need to take complications to get those points. Taking complications is only required while building the form and each form can have different complications (but then they have different total points too). But when you don't take the full complications while building a form, these points are lost forever. You can't retroactively take them! With vanilla Multiform you have the following limitations: Change takes a Half action All Powers of the lost form turn offline. All Powers of the form you change into are offline too. All STUN, BODY and END used by any form count against the limits of whatever form is currently active. Alternatively with great distances (5 BODY vs. 35 BODY) you can make the loss percentuall/based on quotients The Transformation is Persistant (you don't change back when Stunned/K.O.) Let's take an Example with three Forms: True Form is Build on Standart Heroic (400, incl. 75 Complciations) and Pays for two Forms of up to 400 Points each (85 AP). First A-Form is Build the same way: 400, incl. 75 Complications. Second A-Form is Build with lesser Points, 325. A 400-pt Hero without matchign complications. Now he gets 6 XP and invests 1 In the Multiform and the other 5 in his True Form: True Form: 405 with 75 Complications or a 400 with 70 Compllcations 1. A-Form: 405 with 75 Complications or a 400 with 70 Compllcations 2. A-Form: 330 Points, no Complications I hope that helps understanding the bancing

Re: Multiform Simply: You only have a 20 pt True form. If your true form is killed, your alternate forms are killed as well. Also, when body or STUN differ greatly, transforming back could kill your true form (as damage is shared between the forms). And your True form has to pay the price, thus he is up to (Character Limits/5) Points behind every other characters "true form". And of course Multiform should fit into the campaign limits (especially the AP of Multiform and how powerfull your alternate forms can be). Note that when you have only one form and they don't differ greatly (like small boy with big dragon form) but only minimal (small boy with Captain Marvel form), OIAID my be the better way to go.

Re: VPP active point costs After some thought I have realised that this disussion no longer serves any purpose. We have contradicting points of view, therefore an agreement is unlikely. There also seems to be nothing more we can learn form the perspective of the other. As I do not debate for the sake of debating, this thematic is finished for me.

Re: Multiform That is, as far as I know

Re: The Birthday Suit Boogaloo?

Re: Superhuman women less attractive in 6th Edition? Did you just realized that it included ugly/frightening? Thanks. So it was a total Retcon of Character looks, for the worse...

Re: Superhuman women less attractive in 6th Edition? Could it be a retcon of his looks? I ask because: Why would they add half a dozen pictures of the wrong guy to the book?

Re: VPP active point costs Wich was ended here, so I think we are arguing about 6E Frameworks in combination with AP-Caps. Or aren't we? Because it's part of the disadvantage that allows him to have every power from the book within 1 Phase reach, perhaps? This of course asumes we are talking about 6E, if not this discussion has no meaning as I already said that 5E is indeed very unpracticable when adhering to the rules.

Re: Superhuman women less attractive in 6th Edition?

Re: Multiform Nope. Only the Main Form pays for Multiform. Only the Main Form gets the XP. Of course a Multiform could have it own Multiform (two-staged transformation) or the Multiforms could have seperate personalities, but overall that is the rule. Edit. In the Rules the Main Form is called "True Form", the others are called "alternate forms".

Re: Superhuman women less attractive in 6th Edition?

Re: VPP active point costs I never changed my mind, since it was never my intention. I just said it for you since you permanently say that the caps are in the way. That's not my intent to build such a nonsense, is clearly stated by the post in the middle. Honestly I wouldn't think of such ridicilous amounts of Limitations (and I would argue that charges on a 9 END Power are hardly a limitation). I prefer playing with as little limitations as possible, not stack them to get a maxed power extremely cheap. When I want something cheap, I build it in a Framework that follows the AP Limits with all the side-effects of having it in the Framework. About limits: Of course both: Total AP of the VPP (Control + Pool before limitations) and highest AP possible for a power apply. When there is a lower AP for certain powers (like attacks), they have to be inside that limit too (with the -0 Limitation). Sorry if I never mentioned that explicitly, but that's how I think a VPP should be build to be fair for the others and the player. You just showed me that one can come up with up to -3 Limitations for a VPP Power, and I showed you that you can make a VPP whose Controll is as big as the AP Cap, while completely confering to both Limits (over all VPP cost and Controll within AP Cap). You want it again for an overall 60 AP cap? here: 60 Control (30 AP) + 30 Pool (30 AP). The cap is 80? Easy math. The cap is 120? Easy math. So, how can you not build a power within it, that allows you to do the same damage as everyone else with to 60 AP Limit? Sure, you have to take Limitations but you can totally build a power that is equal in output to any other 60 AP Attack with this power pool. And not just one, but dozens of attacks, entangles, barriers. The sky is the limit... How? You still have to put your defenses and movement power in it. If there are only attacks in there or spells you use outside of combat (Picking Locks, etc.), then there may be something wrong with the mutlipower as a whole. My rule of Thumb for Frameworks is: "If you don't have to choose, than something isn't right." If you do have to choose (or have long switching time that is relevant), then it shold be all right.

Re: Superhuman women less attractive in 6th Edition?