Lord Liaden

Almost everyone who posts here disagrees with the costing of the current Damage Shield, even if they agree with the conceptual model in principle (I include myself in that group), but I've rarely seen two of the critics agree about how to correct it. In the case of most other rules changes - Multiple Power attacks, cost of Aid, damage from Haymakers, whatever - I've seen just as many people claim they love them as hate them. That's why most of these proposed "fixes" will remain within the realm of houserules; concensus is practically impossible. It's also why we need one informed person to make decisions about the "official" rules. For the most part, I think that Steve Long has made very good decisions. I disagree with some of them, but I don't expect Steve to change his rulings based on my opinion. Don't get me wrong, I think a forum like this thread is a great place to raise issues and exchange ideas. Something one of us suggests might be just what another reader may be looking for to adjust his own game more to his liking. And who knows, whoever ends up writing 6th Edition might pick up some of the ideas expressed this way and make them official. But for now, house rules are the only practical alternative for someone who doesn't like the official way of doing something.

Cool concept! Mind Control is practically a must for a character like this. Mental Illusions could fit, too. A character in Champions of the North had Mind Control with the Limitation, "Requires normal speech throughout" (-1/2), meaning that if he stopped talking the MC would cease affecting his victim. You could require that his powers require that he sing constantly. Alternatively, if you go the "mime" route (aren't all mimes evil? ), his powers could require the "Gestures" Limitation. You'll get a lot of mileage out of Images, for all the visual and auditory effects and illusions he creates that cause no harm. For more tangible items like stairs, bandstands etc., a shaped Force Wall would probably suffice. And don't underestimate the ability of Change Environment to set a visual and auditory "mood". Hope that helps.

How about a Mongoose - a quick and agile fighter of snakes? Especially good if the character is a smaller person. He might be a master of "mongoose style" martial arts (IIRC there's one written up in UMA). Keep in mind that in the Silver Age, the tone of the stories was not terribly grim. Even the Batman became flashier and more gimmicky. A Mongoose might have a belt, wristbands etc. with various gadgets packed into individual stylized "fangs": throwing darts, various grenades, lockpicks, and the like.

I could quibble about minor things, but those would just be a matter of taste. I can't deny that this last one is pretty sharp, and you have the 1950's flavor coming through really strongly. Slap a ray gun on him, and I'd say you're good to go!

Geez, two more already! I gotta type faster! I'd say number 1, essentially. The new goggles have a sleek look that makes them less distracting from the face than the others, so I think they work pretty well. If the Captain is going to wear them all the time, you can lose the remnant of the black mask underneath them. I reiterate: you'll be truer to the period flavor if you lose the tv belt buckle in favor of dials, and put the lightning bolts back on the gloves and boots. And now that I think of it, he really does need a holster for his raygun.

These four are excellent, Blue! Impressive work on short notice. Only where's the poll? If you'd be interested in suggestions: The goggles are great in concept, but I agree with Supreme that they hide too much of the face. The mask is a more classic "mystery man" hero look. Maybe have the goggles as a gadget that he puts on at need, like night-vision lenses. But if you use them, keep the little antennae - they're just so retro. Costume #1 is the most interesting to me, but #3 is the most Flash Gordon-ish. The tv screen belts are a bit precious, though - the belt on #1 looks like a '50's gimmick, they always had stuff with dials. But you absolutely must have the lightning bolts on the gloves and boots! (I'm just old enough to remember some of this stuff.)

Not make joking suggestions for nicknames for his books? C'mon, JmOz, you don't really expect a lawyer to answer a question that controversial in print, do you?

I'm curious: Can anyone think of any character from any source material, other than another game system, who has total invulnerability to any single force, no matter how large that force is? Even Captain America's shield has been smashed by cosmic foes a couple of times. Even true immortals like the Olympian gods were wounded in battle in the Iliad. Even pre-Crisis Supergirl was killed by the Anti-Monitor. And even in D&D, I remember a few beings and artifacts of godlike power which could, for example, burn even beings normally "immune" to fire and heat. If the desire is to emulate something in the source material, what is that source material? I'm not sure that the mechanics of another system, which itself takes liberties with the fictional precedents, really should qualify. On a related point: FREd suggests that characters taking Limited Desolid to simulate invulnerability to a single SFX could, with GM permission, waive the requirement that Powers or Strength buy "Affects Solid World". Shouldn't that be enough precedent to allow a waiver on attacks with the "Affects Desolid" Advantage affecting that character? There are enough other things that could damage the character, after all.

Splitting Tunneling Concidentally, I posted a question about why you can't do this very thing to Steve today on the "Rules Questions" forum. Here's his reply: The main reason would be that the rules make no provision for that sort of thing; they're pretty explicit about tying the velocity and "strength" of Tunneling together. However, the GM could certainly allow it if he wanted to. That might be particularly appropriate in, for example, an FH campaign that takes place entirely in an underground realm.

Champions 3rd Edition was more fully detailed and better organized than the previous two, with better production values and several rules changes and clarifications, but still maintained the distinction between what it covered and what Uncle Shecky describes for Champions II and III. None of what those two expansion books covered made it into 3rd Ed. BTW, Champs II also included the vehicle and base building rules, which have significant differences from the current ones. If you wanted a thorough understanding of pre-BBB Champions for conversion purposes, you should really get Champs 3rd Ed, Champs II and II. But as a simplified, self-contained superhero game, I agree with archer: 3rd Edition would be your best choice, as it splits the difference from all the others in terms of simplicity, quality and availability.

A character can buy Tunneling for 1" of movement through 1 DEF for every five character points; he can also increase the DEF he can tunnel through separately from the movement rate, at 3 Char. Pts. per point of DEF. I notice that the remaining 2 Char. Pts. out of the initial five would buy the equivalent of 1" of Running. Is there any reason why a character should not buy up his Tunneling movement rate separately from the DEF he can move through, at 1" per 2 Char. Pts.?

Re: 9th-Level Sorcerer and Wizard Spells Honking big Variable Power Pool?

Frankly, Arthur, I agree with you. I've never had a problem with the lethality level in HERO. True heroes are supposed to be able to survive extraordinary circumstances, so giving them (especially when they're PCs) every chance to survive works fine for me. And if someone can't get the help they need to keep from bleeding to death (common circumstance on a battlefield, for ex), they just take a little longer to end up just as dead. This was my friend's suggestion, not mine. For some gamers being able to kill instantly obviously is an issue. So, if we have ideas on how to do that, we can at least toss them out and see if they're picked up - help our colleagues get where they want to go, even if we wouldn't go there ourselves.

It's really an illustration of gaming quantum mechanics: every edition of Hero/Champions has built on what has gone before, and drawn upon the advances in rpg philosophy as a whole, as well as improved production values and increased experience and maturity by writers in the field. Believe me, 4th Ed. was a quantum leap beyond the Hero stuff that preceded it, and at the forefront of universal game systems for its day. Just as 5th Ed. is now. In another ten or twelve years? Who can imagine?

As one further suggestion, a friend of mine who also has a problem with lethality in HERO (not so much instant death, as the fact that a human in HERO can survive more damage than the average brick wall) was discussing a house rule he wants to try out: a character who takes BODY damage equal to or greater than his total starting BODY from a single attack has to make a CON roll (-1 for every 2 BODY more than his total) or die instantly. I think this rule has potential, in that attacks of 10 DC or more will usually be instantly fatal to normals (and to speed up combat, you can assume that most normals will fail their CON rolls), but survivability scales to heroes and superheroes, who generally have higher CON and BODY scores. This would be good for scenes of mass destruction and "slaughter of innocents", which have their places with some villains in some genres.

I've heard a lot of discussion about the "instant kill" option in some games. I'm most familiar with the ones in D&D, although I've seen smatterings of others. In each case that I can recall, the ability to kill instantly is either limited to affecting creatures of a certain "level" (i.e. more powerful creatures are not ever affected by the spell or other power), or the victim of the attack gets a "saving throw" to avoid damage. Note that that saving throw improves as the character gains experience and rises in level. Note also that the more powerful versions of "instant kill" attacks are usually only available to characters who have themselves gained enough experience to rise to the necessary level. In other words, the ability to instantly kill is scaled to the characters' power level. HERO doesn't use levels, so the scaling is done a different way: through increased Defenses, STUN and BODY, and Damage Classes. Instead of Saving Throws, HERO has OCV vs DCV rolls, great or poor Damage rolls, lucky or unlucky Hit Location rolls, etc. So sure, you can kill something instantly for 100 Active Points or less - a 6 1/2 D6 Killing Attack will kill an unprotected normal with one shot almost every time, and a really good roll will kill most super beings. But heroes are supposed to be tougher, more skillful, luckier than normals. You want to kill anything instantly regardless of power level? Build a large enough attack. If you tried to convert D&D to HERO, do you think you could make "Finger of Death" or "Power Word: Kill" spells on less than 100 AP? Those are among the most powerful effects in the game, available only to the mightiest (and most experienced) of characters. I'm not trying to sound sarcastic, Yamo; I just think that you're looking at two systems with two different ways of scaling damage, and trying to make one way function in a system that it wasn't designed for.

Oh! Well, in that case... What you should really consider looking at is the the 5E Champions genre book by Aaron Allston. It's all about using the system to create supers campaigns: which rules options you should or shouldn't use in what situations, how to tailor the Powers to create common super effects (with bunches of examples), the common character archetypes, conventions of the different "ages" of comic books (Golden, Silver, Bronze, Iron), guidelines for players and GMs, plus a bunch of sample characters and other neat stuff. The BBB will give you some of that, but not nearly as much, or as well organized. And there's just no comparison to the older editions of Champions.

I would consider ordering a character to use an attack on himself that he knows will hurt him to require at least a +30 level of effect, unless the character is masochistic. To order a character to use an attack which he knows has a chance of killing him would be de facto against a universal "Psychological Limitation" (instinct for self-preservation), so I would require another +10 on the role, unless the character is already suicidal.

My New York friends were wrong; pleasant things do come out of New Jersey.

Uncle Shecky raises some very good points. The Big Blue Book has some definite advantages over FREd for a newcomer: it combines extensive HERO System mechanics with lots of good supers GMing advice, sample character creation examples, combat runthrough, an introductory adventure, and quite a few pregenerated characters to use as heroes and villains. And the layout probably makes it easier for a newbie to reference things. The system part is less detailed in 4E than 5E, although correspondingly less clear. The fundamental changes from 4th Ed. to 5th are relatively few - most of the changes are clarifications and expanded options, so an upgrade from 4th to 5th would not be difficult. In fact one of our fellow board members, TheEmerged, has summarized the changes between editions (with some interesting commentary) on his website: http://theemerged.blogspot.com/HERO425.htm There are quite a few BBBs around via used game dealers and eBay, so finding one shouldn't be difficult. The ones on eBay generally go for around $20 these days, if cost is a factor. If possible, try looking for the Champions Deluxe edition (stock #451); it's hardcover, well put together, and has a very good index in the back which the earlier editions lacked. For editions earlier than 4th, IMHO they would be less useful to you. There are many significant differences in the system between 3rd and 4th Ed. that could trip you up later (although supplements and adventures written under those rules would not be too hard to convert). Some of the system elements are not as balanced as in 4E, and the range of options is much more limited. And the BBB just has too much useful stuff to pass up, whatever type of superhero game you run. So, if you're thinking of getting an earlier Champions, get 4E and upgrade to 5E as soon as you're ready. It'll be worth it.

It's worth clarifying that the victim of a Mental Power with IPE would still be aware that the Power had been used on him; he just wouldn't be able to tell where the attack came from or who used it. Causing the victim to be unaware of the attack requires a +20 on the effect die roll. The Ultimate Mentalist did offer one optional method for hiding a mental attack without using IPE; you can buy the Skill "Cloak". This is the mentalist's version of Stealth, reflecting a cautious use of the Power. Making a successful roll (based on EGO) will hide the use of a Mental Power from characters with Mental Awareness, although not from the victim of the attack. People with MA roll their Perception against the Cloak roll to detect the Power as a Skill vs. Skill roll, as with Stealth. Cloak suffers a -1 to the roll for every 10 Active Points of Mental Power used. (Ultimate Mentalist p. 12)

I'm glad you said that, SkyKnight. There can't be a more fine-tuned and fine-combed game engine out there than 5E HERO. Granted, just about everyone has ideas about how to make something work "better"; tinkering is in the nature of HERO gamers. And of course, FREd encourages us to change whatever we don't like for our personal games. But as the comments on this thread illustrate, no proposed changes have close to universal approval (with the probable exception of Damage Shield, and even then, the proposed fixes are as numerous as the people suggesting them). A change that one person hates may be loved by someone else. For my part, I've seen almost nothing in the new ruleset that's out-and-out broken - open to abuse if not closely monitored, but not broken. And I still don't grokk the new rules well enough to make definitive decisions about what I think should be changed. I want more playing time under my belt first. I do have faith that Steve Long didn't unleash any utterly ruinous rules on us.

This subject was actually discussed quite a bit on the "pre-Denial of Service Attack" boards. To some extent the issue is addressed in the HERO System Resource Kit by the Character Creation Booklet and the tables on the GM's Screen (which also appear on the players' side of the screen so they can refer to them). However, a lot of people expressed an interest in creating a "lite" version of the rules to help newbies break into the system, less intimidating than FREd. Apparently Steve Long initially had no interest in doing such a project, but by the end of the discussion was convinced of the desire for it and promised to get to it as soon as he had the time. (There's responsiveness to customers for ya!) IIRC, Steve's plan was for a stripped-down version of the rules: the main Powers and Modifiers without a lot of the descriptions and options; basic Combat Maneuvers without all the optional ones; and so forth. He suggested needing something in the 48-64 page range to do justice to the material, but was adamant about wanting it to be a free download from the website. Oh, and Steve himself suggested a name for it that the fans seemed to take to: since it's going to be a smaller, less-powerful version of the HERO System, he proposed calling it the HERO System Sidekick. Now all we need is for Steve to find the time to write it; to quote Hamlet, "Aye, there's the rub."

Gadgets book Then you are in luck, friend Weevil! The HERO publication schedule includes the Gadgets and Gear supplement, tentatively scheduled for early 2004. The description reads like the original Gadgets (which was one of the most useful of the old Champs supplements to me), raised to a higher power. Definitely on my "buy" list.

I've gotten a lot of mileage over the years out of the old Gadgets supplement for 3rd Edition Champions, which included a fair-sized selection of non-lethal weaponry. My favorite is the "Hyper-Velocity Pellet Gun", which fires an .11 caliber "soft" pellet which flattens on impact, for high stopping power with low lethality. It was written up as a 1D6 RKA with +6 STUN Multiplier. (The point totals for that came out higher than they would under current 5E rules.) That was the basic pistol version; the assault rifle version added Autofire. Another cool one is the "Flash/Smoke Dual Action Pump Shotgun", which fired rounds of Flash and Darkness to Sight ammo. The shotgun is double-barreled, with each barrel feeding off a separate clip. It was written up as a Multipower with Charges in clips for each slot.