Sean Waters

A huge killing attack.

Other than in character creation, it is rare for a character to want to round down.  By 'character' I mean anyone with PC in their description, even if that is preceded by a 'N'.
 
So, if a character with an odd numbered DCV is at half DCV, round up.  If a character with an odd numbered OCV is at half OCV, round up.  Round in favour of the character (PC or NPC) that is applying the modifier.  Attacker or defender, no matter.  PCs do not get a better deal from the rules than NPCs do.
 
That's my take, anyway.

A huge killing attack.

Unbelievably enough, this was a published PC-facing example power in the Mutants and Masterminds 3e Power Profiles book. 

With a trigger or "just before taking damage," I'd expect it would only go off if the user was aware of the incoming attack (and thus knew he could be taking damage), so a surprise or invisible attack should still get through.  But yes, this seems to have a high Cheese Factor.
 
Also, loved the Monty Python reference.

People understand percentages differently: you know if you have a 45% chance then 1-45 is good, anything over that is bad.
 
The problem with Hero 3d6 rolls is not, to my mind, that it is a low roll system per se - people rarely fuss about getting less that 14 if they know they have to roll that, the problem is that in combat you have to add 11 to your OCV then SUBTRACT the 3d6 roll.  I know, I know, 11+OCV-DCV as a target number to roll under, but that is not how it is written in the rules.
 
It is all about presentation though.
 
"Roll."
 
"I got an 18!"
 
"Oh bad luck..."
 
Is much worse perceptually than:
 
"Roll under 14."
 
"I got an 18."
 
"Oh bad luck..."
 
The problem with the shortcut is it tells the player information they (maybe) shouldn't have.  Roll high, it is easy.  OCV+3d6-10 gives you the DCV you can hit and you can shout that out and the GM can say whether you hit.
 
Roll low, the calculation is OCV+11-3d6.  Same result - you shout out the DCV you can hit but it just does not look or feel as good or as straightforward.  You are adding eleven rather than taking 10 and subtracting 3d6 rather than adding it.  For most people addition is less daunting than subtraction unless, you know, 10.
 
In fact you can shortcut it further.  If you record your DCV as DCV+10 then the calculation is just OCV+3d6.  Sure you can 'just' record OCV as OCV+11 but then subtraction again.

Hmm.  I always though that Teleportation 2m, no relative velocity (12 points) with trigger (just before taking damage) was pretty cheesey.  Originally I saw it used to just avoid falling and KB damage (and for 15 points that is not too unreasonable), but then it got pointed out that if the trigger automatically reset instantly (another +1/2, for +6 points), it could be used to avoid all attacks, other than (most) AoEs.  That's pretty impressive for 21 points.  The whiff of ancient Camembert became overwhelming.  It was far runnier than I'd have liked, then the cat ate it.

Hmm.  I always though that Teleportation 2m, no relative velocity (12 points) with trigger (just before taking damage) was pretty cheesey.  Originally I saw it used to just avoid falling and KB damage (and for 15 points that is not too unreasonable), but then it got pointed out that if the trigger automatically reset instantly (another +1/2, for +6 points), it could be used to avoid all attacks, other than (most) AoEs.  That's pretty impressive for 21 points.  The whiff of ancient Camembert became overwhelming.  It was far runnier than I'd have liked, then the cat ate it.

I suspect it means that intelligence without knowledge does not mean that you can derive everything from first principles: you need at least some knowledge, and the more you have the more your intelligence can get to work.  It's like a supercomputer with a 20 byte broadband connection.  Intelligent ignorance may get there in the end, but probably no quicker than informed norm.  There's a reason we didn't come up with Relativity (I say 'we'...) until the 20th Century: it required a lot of geniuses over a long period of time involved in a lot of experimentation and theorisation (is that a word?) before we had the knowledge base for intelligence to take the next step.
 
Equally you could have a ZX80 with a Gigabit internet connection.  Lots of information available but it isn't going to get processed  very quickly or make the base unit any more powerful.  The availability of a lot of knowledge does not mean that we will be able to use it to come to any particular conclusion.
 
Intelligence + Knowledge, however...
 
Or, you know, what Ninja-Bear said.  That's probably a better analogy.
 
EDIT: The point is, Intelligence is computing power, Knowledge is data.  Both is best.

I can see that *ahem*, but I would also argue that I know full well what my car keys look like.  I've had them for years, I have absolutely no problem recognising them when I see them and I do not have a bunch of similar keys about the place AND YET I can put them down to answer the phone and then have to take 10 minutes finding them again.  My perception is fine, I am just not great about sorting keys from background, despite my detailed and intimate knowledge and years of practice looking for them.  Or maybe, just maybe, I'm excellent at hiding keys.
 
If we had separate rolls we could emulate that better: my eyesight is fine but I'm an idiot.  That is not the same thing, to my way of thinking, as just having a low PER roll,even if mathematically it yields a similar result.  Having two rolls tells you more about the process.  it is more interesting.  It really does not take long.
 
To take a comparison with Strength in Hero, we don't roll for how much you can lift (barring Pushing), there's just a number for that.  Similarly, you are always going to be able to perceive (in the sense of actually see) the same thing in the same circumstances.  If you could see it yesterday, you can see it today.  The issue here is whether you perceive (in the sense of comprehend) the significance of that, and that is what Perception seems to emulate.  However, there's also the problem that, when there is background noise, even though you are certainly capable of perceiving (in either sense) a certain thing, you may well not do.
 
My view is that the 'How Much Can My Eyesight Lift' bit is down to your physiology and the conditions: are you CAPABLE of seeing the thing in question, which is really a question for the GM, based on the rules (which is why having Light Levels could be a useful tool).  Next there is the question of whether you notice the thing in question.  To my way of thinking, that is what the PER roll is, whether you actually pick that information out of the background noise.  Finally there is the question of what significance to attribute to that information, which is why I think there ought to be another step and we should decouple PER and INT.  Sure you can say a single roll does all that, but where's the fun in that?
 
If you have not seen this, watch and see if you can get it right: 
 

For extended tests, I will usually GM the roll to adding extra time.  For instance, if someone is a physics professor with a 13- science roll: Physics happens to roll a 16.  I generally won't let him fail if as a physics professor he should know the answer.  Instead, I tell the character that will need to think about it for a minute before getting the answer.  This also works well with social skills.  You fail with a charm roll by 5, you don't hit it off immediately.  Instead you need to work on charming the target.  If the character has enough time, they will still charm the target but the question is will they have enough time to successfully charm them or will they have to rudely run off in the middle of an awkward spot in the conversation to deal with a crisis.
 
The reason I like this solution:
1) The major mechanics aren't changed and it uses an existing mechanic (the time chart) in a new way.
2) Character concepts that say they are "X" aren't dis-satisfyingly ruined due to a bad die roll.  IE: Your sneaky ninja is still sneaky, they just have to move slower and more cautiously.
 
These reasons are why I abandoned the skill as a normal attack mechanic back then rather than trying to kludge more fixes.  The more fixes it required, the more major changes to the system and more learning it would require to keep the game portable to beyond just my own gaming group.  Also, usually, the time aspect was enough to be disappointing without being discouraging on a roll.
 
 

I like the idea of having a way to build in tasks taking longer for less skilled people, and to make it effectively impossible for those who lack the relevant skills.
 
Now, I don't think it works as written, I don't think it effectively achieves the things that make me like it.
 
Our current system, roll 3D6, is pretty much binary in pass/fail and provides no threshold for expert knowledge.  The social combat elements (persuasion, intimidation, etc) make that even more unsatisfying.  I think Sean's idea could provide us with something more satisfying.
 
So, thresholds.  I think there is real potential in being able to label tasks as mundane, skilled and specialist.  To test whether a character knows enough to even undertake the task might require enough BODY on the first roll.  You then need enough effect to finish the task (represented by STUN).  Not enough effect?  Then you need to work longer (more rolls).  I like the option this opens for a simple (low threshold) but fiddly task which could be represented by a defence against the STUN damage (though I think you should do a minimum of 1STUN per dice). 
 
That also opens up real potential for social combat where your persuasion roll provides "damage" in the STUN and temporary defence for the next roll in the BODY.
 
The more I think about it, the more I think that, for a skill-heavy game, this would provide real mechanical heft.
 
Sean, I think there is a foundation for a submission to the Hall of Champions here.
 
Doc

Hello, Sean! 
 
Welcome back! 
 
I'm still at work, so I don't have much time to read the thread at the moment,  but it reminded me of something we tried for an espionage-type game: if you botched a Skill Roll, the Body of the dice were counted to determine how many Phases before you could try again. 
 
I know this is not at all what you are discussing here, but the reminder was nice, and it really added something to the idea of having to try a different approach for the hack, or diagnose and swap out another component in your repair, or switch to a more specialized set of lockpicks- whatever.  It was a fun thing we tried once, and I wanted to share it before I forgot it for another twenty years. 
 

 

Phil, knowledge provides Intelligence you say? Am I correct? And no one refuted that claim? Correct? Let me present Rainman. He has phenomenal knowledge/memorization but he doesn’t have a normal Intelligence. 

See also Parkinson's law of triviality ("bikeshedding").

You know, I kinda disagree with this.  Recognising signal from noise very much depends on knowledge of detail.  I might completely miss those finger bones because they look no different from the rocks and roots they sit among but the archeaologist's detailed knowledge makes them stand out, almost as if they were under a little spotlight...
 
Not always, but sometimes. 
 
Doc

Smart people can not see any better at night than I can either.

Hello chaps,
 
I was walking the dogs the other day and I had this idea.  That happens a lot.  Here it is.  Too long, probably, but this is more about getting it off my chest than anything else 😊
I’ve never been entirely satisfied with the skill system in Hero.  Story of my life.
 
The basic idea: So one of the real stand out mechanics of Hero is the damage roll, specifically how a single roll yields a Stun and a Body total.  We can use that as an alternative skill resolution method.
When you buy a skill you get CHAR/5 d6 in that skill.  Skill levels add 1d6 per skill level.
Roll the total as if you are rolling damage and compare to a Difficulty.
A standard difficulty take would be Difficulty 10.  3d6 will get you to 10 or more 62.5% of the time, same as 11- on 3d6.
More difficult tasks have a higher difficulty.  They should probably go up in increments of 3 or 4, but any number can be used.
Bonuses are added to your dice pool.  Penalties form their own dice pool and are rolled separately then subtracted.
 
Complications: So the ‘damage’ roll also yields a Body result.  This can be used in two ways.  First the task may require a Body total as well as a Stun total.  I would suggest that everyman skills are ‘Stun only’, meaning there are some things you can not do with knowledge that you have not paid points for.
Second, Body points can be used to give you bonuses.  For example, if the task you are trying to accomplish normally takes a minute and is Difficulty 15/1 (meaning more difficult than usual and can only be accomplished with trained skills) and you have 5d6 to roll, and get (say) 17/5, you accomplish the task (exceed the difficulty of both the ‘Stun’ and ‘Body’) – the excess Stun is wasted, but the excess Body (5-1=4) can be used as a bonus.  The typical bonus would be reduced time.  Each point reduces the time taken by 1 unit of the next point in the time chart.  So, if the task normally took a minute, the next time point is a turn.  You have 4 Body excess so can reduce the time the task takes by 4 turns, or 48 seconds, meaning it only takes you 1 turn.
If you had managed to roll 7 Body (6 excess), 4 Body reduce total time to 1 Turn then the extra 2 reduce the time taken by 1 segment each, so instead of a minute, it takes you 10 seconds.
You can use the excess Body for other bonuses too.  Off the top of my head, if you are rolling Persuasion and get extra Body, you get the target as a single use favour or contact, each excess point translating to 1d6 of effect to see how affected they are.
You can also use Body for penalties.
Tasks are either Repeatable or All Or Nothing, either Cumulatively or not and may attract Penalties.
 
So, a Repeatable task example might be Research: you have to comb through a lot of material to find out what you want to.  This is not an enormously difficult task and you will find what you need eventually but there is a lot of stuff to go through.
The task difficulty might be 40/3 (1 hour).  Basically you can keep rolling and adding Stun until you get to 50: the number of times x the time the task takes for one iteration tells you how long it takes.  Body is NOT cumulative.
Say you have a Research skill of 4d6 (or just Research/4).  You roll 14/4 and you have 14 points to your total and it took 55 minutes (as you had one extra Body).
Next you roll 19/5, your total is now 31 and that took an additional 50 minutes.
Next you do badly and roll 10/2.  The Stun should take you to 41, so you should complete the task, but because you did not roll 3 Body, that hour is wasted and the Stun does not add.  Finally, you roll 12/3 and get to 43 points.  That took another hour, but now you have your answer.
That took 3 hours 45 minutes in total.
 
A repeatable task that is not cumulative might be lockpicking.  That might have a difficulty of 12/3.  You can keep going until you succeed in rolling at least 12/3 in a single go.
 
An example of a repeatable roll with a penalty might be Persuasion.  That might have a difficulty of 16/5.  You have Persuasion/6 so you are confident. If you roll 16/5 or more, you succeed but if you fail then you can have another go, but with a penalty.  The penalty is whatever you failed the Body roll by, so if you rolled (1, 5, 2, 3, 1, 5) 17/4, for example, then you do not succeed and any subsequent attempts are made at a penalty of (5-4)=1.
Penalties are rolled separately and subtracted from your total.  Next time you roll (4,3,5,2,5,3).  That is a total of 22/6, which is great and would easily pass, but you have a penalty of 1d6.  If it comes up 6 you fail as your total is now (22-6)=16/(6-2)=4.  Next time you have 2 penalty dice if you try again.
 
Penalties also apply to others trying the same thing on the same target, usually, and they usually reset after a time, in the discretion of the GM.  Someone you have failed to persuade might always see you as a pest, however.
Some tasks might START with a penalty, if they are particularly tricky.
Some tasks, for example bomb disposal, might not be repeatable: they are all or nothing.  Fail and BOOM!
Skill vs skill just compares totals.  The ‘attacker’ has to equal or beat the ‘Stun’ and ‘Body’ of the ‘defender’s total.  If the attacker fails at both they fail.  If they fail at one the GM might declare a draw and allow another attempt.
Alternatively, Characteristics can be used as difficulties.  If you are trying to use Stealth to get past a character with 14 INT, the difficulty is 14/3 (to get the Body total, divide by 5 and round).
 
Finally, you could rule that if you roll all '1's (or if you have a zero or less Body total after penalties) that is a fumble and something horrible happens.  It is less likely as you become more skilled, unless you are doing something really tricky, which seems realistic.  If you roll all '6's then you get lots of Body which will give you some sort of bonus anyway, so a 'critical' rule is not needed.
 
Thoughts?

I've not read the whole thread but, for what it is worth...
 
1. I do not like 'Darkness, normal' to be written up as -4 to PER rolls.  Makes no sense.  Doesn't matter how smart you are, you can not see in the dark.
2. I don't think there is a really satisfactory way of writing up the generation of light or, for that matter, the generation of non-damaging energy of any kind.
3. The whole 'senses' thing might make more, well, sense, if it was done differently.  I do like the active sense thing though.  Clever.
4. You specifically can not use Change Environment to create light, although you can use it to create heat, which is a sort of light, or will do in a pinch (and with vision in the right bit of the spectrum).  Bah.
 
I've got a torch that can illuminate stuff a hundred metres or more away.  It is less use than being able to see in the dark, because it has a narrower filed of vision than I do and, you know, it is a torch.  The further away I shine it, the dimmer it illuminates but the wider the area it illuminates.
 
Hmm.  Just thinking.
 
Right, a beam of light , used as an attack, would cost 5 points for 1d6 damage.  It would have a range of 50m.  It is visible. I do not think it unreasonable that the sfx could be defined to briefly illuminate everything along its path. and probably for a couple of metres either side.  To be useful as a torch it would have to be constant, which is +1/2.  A 128m thin cone is +1.  No range is -1/2.  A 1 hour continuing fuel charge is +0.  Obvious Accessible Focus is -1.  'SFX only' is, perhaps -1 again, maybe -2.  Either way that works out at 3 points.  Leaving out OAF it is 5 or 3 points depending on the SFX only limitation.
 
Sod it.  Energy Creation: For 5 points you can create  non damaging energy as up to an 8m explosion.  The energy has all the normal properties of the created energy* but is not intense enough to (normally**) cause damage.  This can include 'negative energy' like cold.  It is ranged (10m x active points).  Costs END. Constant.
 
That'll do.
 
 
 
*Light illuminates and can be seen even outside the area of immediate illumination.  Heat will convect or radiate and, in an enclosed space, eventually heat up the entire area unless cooling is applied.  Magnetism affects magnets and may magnetise iron.  Electricity can power household appliances.  Etc., etc.
 
**It may well trigger appropriate susceptibilities, however.
 

People understand percentages differently: you know if you have a 45% chance then 1-45 is good, anything over that is bad.
 
The problem with Hero 3d6 rolls is not, to my mind, that it is a low roll system per se - people rarely fuss about getting less that 14 if they know they have to roll that, the problem is that in combat you have to add 11 to your OCV then SUBTRACT the 3d6 roll.  I know, I know, 11+OCV-DCV as a target number to roll under, but that is not how it is written in the rules.
 
It is all about presentation though.
 
"Roll."
 
"I got an 18!"
 
"Oh bad luck..."
 
Is much worse perceptually than:
 
"Roll under 14."
 
"I got an 18."
 
"Oh bad luck..."
 
The problem with the shortcut is it tells the player information they (maybe) shouldn't have.  Roll high, it is easy.  OCV+3d6-10 gives you the DCV you can hit and you can shout that out and the GM can say whether you hit.
 
Roll low, the calculation is OCV+11-3d6.  Same result - you shout out the DCV you can hit but it just does not look or feel as good or as straightforward.  You are adding eleven rather than taking 10 and subtracting 3d6 rather than adding it.  For most people addition is less daunting than subtraction unless, you know, 10.
 
In fact you can shortcut it further.  If you record your DCV as DCV+10 then the calculation is just OCV+3d6.  Sure you can 'just' record OCV as OCV+11 but then subtraction again.

Hello chaps,
 
I was walking the dogs the other day and I had this idea.  That happens a lot.  Here it is.  Too long, probably, but this is more about getting it off my chest than anything else 😊
I’ve never been entirely satisfied with the skill system in Hero.  Story of my life.
 
The basic idea: So one of the real stand out mechanics of Hero is the damage roll, specifically how a single roll yields a Stun and a Body total.  We can use that as an alternative skill resolution method.
When you buy a skill you get CHAR/5 d6 in that skill.  Skill levels add 1d6 per skill level.
Roll the total as if you are rolling damage and compare to a Difficulty.
A standard difficulty take would be Difficulty 10.  3d6 will get you to 10 or more 62.5% of the time, same as 11- on 3d6.
More difficult tasks have a higher difficulty.  They should probably go up in increments of 3 or 4, but any number can be used.
Bonuses are added to your dice pool.  Penalties form their own dice pool and are rolled separately then subtracted.
 
Complications: So the ‘damage’ roll also yields a Body result.  This can be used in two ways.  First the task may require a Body total as well as a Stun total.  I would suggest that everyman skills are ‘Stun only’, meaning there are some things you can not do with knowledge that you have not paid points for.
Second, Body points can be used to give you bonuses.  For example, if the task you are trying to accomplish normally takes a minute and is Difficulty 15/1 (meaning more difficult than usual and can only be accomplished with trained skills) and you have 5d6 to roll, and get (say) 17/5, you accomplish the task (exceed the difficulty of both the ‘Stun’ and ‘Body’) – the excess Stun is wasted, but the excess Body (5-1=4) can be used as a bonus.  The typical bonus would be reduced time.  Each point reduces the time taken by 1 unit of the next point in the time chart.  So, if the task normally took a minute, the next time point is a turn.  You have 4 Body excess so can reduce the time the task takes by 4 turns, or 48 seconds, meaning it only takes you 1 turn.
If you had managed to roll 7 Body (6 excess), 4 Body reduce total time to 1 Turn then the extra 2 reduce the time taken by 1 segment each, so instead of a minute, it takes you 10 seconds.
You can use the excess Body for other bonuses too.  Off the top of my head, if you are rolling Persuasion and get extra Body, you get the target as a single use favour or contact, each excess point translating to 1d6 of effect to see how affected they are.
You can also use Body for penalties.
Tasks are either Repeatable or All Or Nothing, either Cumulatively or not and may attract Penalties.
 
So, a Repeatable task example might be Research: you have to comb through a lot of material to find out what you want to.  This is not an enormously difficult task and you will find what you need eventually but there is a lot of stuff to go through.
The task difficulty might be 40/3 (1 hour).  Basically you can keep rolling and adding Stun until you get to 50: the number of times x the time the task takes for one iteration tells you how long it takes.  Body is NOT cumulative.
Say you have a Research skill of 4d6 (or just Research/4).  You roll 14/4 and you have 14 points to your total and it took 55 minutes (as you had one extra Body).
Next you roll 19/5, your total is now 31 and that took an additional 50 minutes.
Next you do badly and roll 10/2.  The Stun should take you to 41, so you should complete the task, but because you did not roll 3 Body, that hour is wasted and the Stun does not add.  Finally, you roll 12/3 and get to 43 points.  That took another hour, but now you have your answer.
That took 3 hours 45 minutes in total.
 
A repeatable task that is not cumulative might be lockpicking.  That might have a difficulty of 12/3.  You can keep going until you succeed in rolling at least 12/3 in a single go.
 
An example of a repeatable roll with a penalty might be Persuasion.  That might have a difficulty of 16/5.  You have Persuasion/6 so you are confident. If you roll 16/5 or more, you succeed but if you fail then you can have another go, but with a penalty.  The penalty is whatever you failed the Body roll by, so if you rolled (1, 5, 2, 3, 1, 5) 17/4, for example, then you do not succeed and any subsequent attempts are made at a penalty of (5-4)=1.
Penalties are rolled separately and subtracted from your total.  Next time you roll (4,3,5,2,5,3).  That is a total of 22/6, which is great and would easily pass, but you have a penalty of 1d6.  If it comes up 6 you fail as your total is now (22-6)=16/(6-2)=4.  Next time you have 2 penalty dice if you try again.
 
Penalties also apply to others trying the same thing on the same target, usually, and they usually reset after a time, in the discretion of the GM.  Someone you have failed to persuade might always see you as a pest, however.
Some tasks might START with a penalty, if they are particularly tricky.
Some tasks, for example bomb disposal, might not be repeatable: they are all or nothing.  Fail and BOOM!
Skill vs skill just compares totals.  The ‘attacker’ has to equal or beat the ‘Stun’ and ‘Body’ of the ‘defender’s total.  If the attacker fails at both they fail.  If they fail at one the GM might declare a draw and allow another attempt.
Alternatively, Characteristics can be used as difficulties.  If you are trying to use Stealth to get past a character with 14 INT, the difficulty is 14/3 (to get the Body total, divide by 5 and round).
 
Finally, you could rule that if you roll all '1's (or if you have a zero or less Body total after penalties) that is a fumble and something horrible happens.  It is less likely as you become more skilled, unless you are doing something really tricky, which seems realistic.  If you roll all '6's then you get lots of Body which will give you some sort of bonus anyway, so a 'critical' rule is not needed.
 
Thoughts?

Hello chaps,
 
I was walking the dogs the other day and I had this idea.  That happens a lot.  Here it is.  Too long, probably, but this is more about getting it off my chest than anything else 😊
I’ve never been entirely satisfied with the skill system in Hero.  Story of my life.
 
The basic idea: So one of the real stand out mechanics of Hero is the damage roll, specifically how a single roll yields a Stun and a Body total.  We can use that as an alternative skill resolution method.
When you buy a skill you get CHAR/5 d6 in that skill.  Skill levels add 1d6 per skill level.
Roll the total as if you are rolling damage and compare to a Difficulty.
A standard difficulty take would be Difficulty 10.  3d6 will get you to 10 or more 62.5% of the time, same as 11- on 3d6.
More difficult tasks have a higher difficulty.  They should probably go up in increments of 3 or 4, but any number can be used.
Bonuses are added to your dice pool.  Penalties form their own dice pool and are rolled separately then subtracted.
 
Complications: So the ‘damage’ roll also yields a Body result.  This can be used in two ways.  First the task may require a Body total as well as a Stun total.  I would suggest that everyman skills are ‘Stun only’, meaning there are some things you can not do with knowledge that you have not paid points for.
Second, Body points can be used to give you bonuses.  For example, if the task you are trying to accomplish normally takes a minute and is Difficulty 15/1 (meaning more difficult than usual and can only be accomplished with trained skills) and you have 5d6 to roll, and get (say) 17/5, you accomplish the task (exceed the difficulty of both the ‘Stun’ and ‘Body’) – the excess Stun is wasted, but the excess Body (5-1=4) can be used as a bonus.  The typical bonus would be reduced time.  Each point reduces the time taken by 1 unit of the next point in the time chart.  So, if the task normally took a minute, the next time point is a turn.  You have 4 Body excess so can reduce the time the task takes by 4 turns, or 48 seconds, meaning it only takes you 1 turn.
If you had managed to roll 7 Body (6 excess), 4 Body reduce total time to 1 Turn then the extra 2 reduce the time taken by 1 segment each, so instead of a minute, it takes you 10 seconds.
You can use the excess Body for other bonuses too.  Off the top of my head, if you are rolling Persuasion and get extra Body, you get the target as a single use favour or contact, each excess point translating to 1d6 of effect to see how affected they are.
You can also use Body for penalties.
Tasks are either Repeatable or All Or Nothing, either Cumulatively or not and may attract Penalties.
 
So, a Repeatable task example might be Research: you have to comb through a lot of material to find out what you want to.  This is not an enormously difficult task and you will find what you need eventually but there is a lot of stuff to go through.
The task difficulty might be 40/3 (1 hour).  Basically you can keep rolling and adding Stun until you get to 50: the number of times x the time the task takes for one iteration tells you how long it takes.  Body is NOT cumulative.
Say you have a Research skill of 4d6 (or just Research/4).  You roll 14/4 and you have 14 points to your total and it took 55 minutes (as you had one extra Body).
Next you roll 19/5, your total is now 31 and that took an additional 50 minutes.
Next you do badly and roll 10/2.  The Stun should take you to 41, so you should complete the task, but because you did not roll 3 Body, that hour is wasted and the Stun does not add.  Finally, you roll 12/3 and get to 43 points.  That took another hour, but now you have your answer.
That took 3 hours 45 minutes in total.
 
A repeatable task that is not cumulative might be lockpicking.  That might have a difficulty of 12/3.  You can keep going until you succeed in rolling at least 12/3 in a single go.
 
An example of a repeatable roll with a penalty might be Persuasion.  That might have a difficulty of 16/5.  You have Persuasion/6 so you are confident. If you roll 16/5 or more, you succeed but if you fail then you can have another go, but with a penalty.  The penalty is whatever you failed the Body roll by, so if you rolled (1, 5, 2, 3, 1, 5) 17/4, for example, then you do not succeed and any subsequent attempts are made at a penalty of (5-4)=1.
Penalties are rolled separately and subtracted from your total.  Next time you roll (4,3,5,2,5,3).  That is a total of 22/6, which is great and would easily pass, but you have a penalty of 1d6.  If it comes up 6 you fail as your total is now (22-6)=16/(6-2)=4.  Next time you have 2 penalty dice if you try again.
 
Penalties also apply to others trying the same thing on the same target, usually, and they usually reset after a time, in the discretion of the GM.  Someone you have failed to persuade might always see you as a pest, however.
Some tasks might START with a penalty, if they are particularly tricky.
Some tasks, for example bomb disposal, might not be repeatable: they are all or nothing.  Fail and BOOM!
Skill vs skill just compares totals.  The ‘attacker’ has to equal or beat the ‘Stun’ and ‘Body’ of the ‘defender’s total.  If the attacker fails at both they fail.  If they fail at one the GM might declare a draw and allow another attempt.
Alternatively, Characteristics can be used as difficulties.  If you are trying to use Stealth to get past a character with 14 INT, the difficulty is 14/3 (to get the Body total, divide by 5 and round).
 
Finally, you could rule that if you roll all '1's (or if you have a zero or less Body total after penalties) that is a fumble and something horrible happens.  It is less likely as you become more skilled, unless you are doing something really tricky, which seems realistic.  If you roll all '6's then you get lots of Body which will give you some sort of bonus anyway, so a 'critical' rule is not needed.
 
Thoughts?

Hello chaps,
 
I was walking the dogs the other day and I had this idea.  That happens a lot.  Here it is.  Too long, probably, but this is more about getting it off my chest than anything else 😊
I’ve never been entirely satisfied with the skill system in Hero.  Story of my life.
 
The basic idea: So one of the real stand out mechanics of Hero is the damage roll, specifically how a single roll yields a Stun and a Body total.  We can use that as an alternative skill resolution method.
When you buy a skill you get CHAR/5 d6 in that skill.  Skill levels add 1d6 per skill level.
Roll the total as if you are rolling damage and compare to a Difficulty.
A standard difficulty take would be Difficulty 10.  3d6 will get you to 10 or more 62.5% of the time, same as 11- on 3d6.
More difficult tasks have a higher difficulty.  They should probably go up in increments of 3 or 4, but any number can be used.
Bonuses are added to your dice pool.  Penalties form their own dice pool and are rolled separately then subtracted.
 
Complications: So the ‘damage’ roll also yields a Body result.  This can be used in two ways.  First the task may require a Body total as well as a Stun total.  I would suggest that everyman skills are ‘Stun only’, meaning there are some things you can not do with knowledge that you have not paid points for.
Second, Body points can be used to give you bonuses.  For example, if the task you are trying to accomplish normally takes a minute and is Difficulty 15/1 (meaning more difficult than usual and can only be accomplished with trained skills) and you have 5d6 to roll, and get (say) 17/5, you accomplish the task (exceed the difficulty of both the ‘Stun’ and ‘Body’) – the excess Stun is wasted, but the excess Body (5-1=4) can be used as a bonus.  The typical bonus would be reduced time.  Each point reduces the time taken by 1 unit of the next point in the time chart.  So, if the task normally took a minute, the next time point is a turn.  You have 4 Body excess so can reduce the time the task takes by 4 turns, or 48 seconds, meaning it only takes you 1 turn.
If you had managed to roll 7 Body (6 excess), 4 Body reduce total time to 1 Turn then the extra 2 reduce the time taken by 1 segment each, so instead of a minute, it takes you 10 seconds.
You can use the excess Body for other bonuses too.  Off the top of my head, if you are rolling Persuasion and get extra Body, you get the target as a single use favour or contact, each excess point translating to 1d6 of effect to see how affected they are.
You can also use Body for penalties.
Tasks are either Repeatable or All Or Nothing, either Cumulatively or not and may attract Penalties.
 
So, a Repeatable task example might be Research: you have to comb through a lot of material to find out what you want to.  This is not an enormously difficult task and you will find what you need eventually but there is a lot of stuff to go through.
The task difficulty might be 40/3 (1 hour).  Basically you can keep rolling and adding Stun until you get to 50: the number of times x the time the task takes for one iteration tells you how long it takes.  Body is NOT cumulative.
Say you have a Research skill of 4d6 (or just Research/4).  You roll 14/4 and you have 14 points to your total and it took 55 minutes (as you had one extra Body).
Next you roll 19/5, your total is now 31 and that took an additional 50 minutes.
Next you do badly and roll 10/2.  The Stun should take you to 41, so you should complete the task, but because you did not roll 3 Body, that hour is wasted and the Stun does not add.  Finally, you roll 12/3 and get to 43 points.  That took another hour, but now you have your answer.
That took 3 hours 45 minutes in total.
 
A repeatable task that is not cumulative might be lockpicking.  That might have a difficulty of 12/3.  You can keep going until you succeed in rolling at least 12/3 in a single go.
 
An example of a repeatable roll with a penalty might be Persuasion.  That might have a difficulty of 16/5.  You have Persuasion/6 so you are confident. If you roll 16/5 or more, you succeed but if you fail then you can have another go, but with a penalty.  The penalty is whatever you failed the Body roll by, so if you rolled (1, 5, 2, 3, 1, 5) 17/4, for example, then you do not succeed and any subsequent attempts are made at a penalty of (5-4)=1.
Penalties are rolled separately and subtracted from your total.  Next time you roll (4,3,5,2,5,3).  That is a total of 22/6, which is great and would easily pass, but you have a penalty of 1d6.  If it comes up 6 you fail as your total is now (22-6)=16/(6-2)=4.  Next time you have 2 penalty dice if you try again.
 
Penalties also apply to others trying the same thing on the same target, usually, and they usually reset after a time, in the discretion of the GM.  Someone you have failed to persuade might always see you as a pest, however.
Some tasks might START with a penalty, if they are particularly tricky.
Some tasks, for example bomb disposal, might not be repeatable: they are all or nothing.  Fail and BOOM!
Skill vs skill just compares totals.  The ‘attacker’ has to equal or beat the ‘Stun’ and ‘Body’ of the ‘defender’s total.  If the attacker fails at both they fail.  If they fail at one the GM might declare a draw and allow another attempt.
Alternatively, Characteristics can be used as difficulties.  If you are trying to use Stealth to get past a character with 14 INT, the difficulty is 14/3 (to get the Body total, divide by 5 and round).
 
Finally, you could rule that if you roll all '1's (or if you have a zero or less Body total after penalties) that is a fumble and something horrible happens.  It is less likely as you become more skilled, unless you are doing something really tricky, which seems realistic.  If you roll all '6's then you get lots of Body which will give you some sort of bonus anyway, so a 'critical' rule is not needed.
 
Thoughts?

I'm rather assuming that Mythic Hero is going to be a book of Gods: a Mythic Hero book would have to contain something useful to use in my games, or a game I might create or play in.
 
I remember the old Deities and Demigods book in DnD and how, despite the fact that I bought it, I never really found a use for it: the characters portrayed were too powerful for even the mightiest of heroes and took on an almost arbitrary aspect because there were no rules for creating them - you could make up what you wanted to.
 
So I suppose the first thing a book of this sort would have to answer is 'what is a God?', then 'what is the place of a God in my game?'
 
Almost by definition a God is something that is beyond the bounds of the world we live in.  A lot of comic book characters are described as 'godlike' in their power, but are they?  Gods in story and legend could do whatever was needed for the story or legend, and were limited in whatever ways were needed. 
 
I would not be particularly keen on a villain/NPC book detailing the stats of Gods: at the sort of power levels we are talking about, Hero starts to break down unless you have very strict build guidelines: a 1000 point character can have a 100d6 Blast and still have 500 points to spend on other stuff.  Another 1000 point character could not usefully defend against that sort of attack without being very fortunate in the way they built the character.  In fact, at that level some powers become almost de rigeur: damage reduction being a case in point.
 
In addition the sheer variety of attacks becomes impossible to usefully defend against: a 50d6 NND will take down almost anything that is not specifically shielded against it.
 
The above examples also shows how unplayable the characters would be: if you are rolling dozens of dice for damage, you will be spending most of your time just adding up.
 
Gods should have weaknesses: not ones that allow them to be beaten in combat, because that almost never happens, but ones that allow them to be outsmarted, misdirected or tricked.  If a mortal beats a God, it is almost always because they are smarter, or luckier in some way, than the God they beat or that they had the help and guidance of another God.  You do not usually hear tales of mortals besting Gods in direct combat, not unless the God has deliberately limited itself in some way, or been limited.
 
Gods should affect the world in various ways: some as mere superstitious talismans, others as active participants in fate, but always as a plot device rather than an active antagonist.  You might defeat Hades by foiling his followers' machinations, but you are unlikely to simply punch his lights out...
 
...having said which, that actually happened in a game I ran where the characters were 250 point superheroes - but I had not statted up Hades and calculated his stun and KB, it happened because Hades was passing through a portal to the mortal world and the character, Fortress, struck at exactly the right time and, well, it made sense for the game.  I had not planned it, but I certainly took advantage of it.
 
That, I suppose is the point: even if we assume that most Gods are basically high powered superheroes, who plays games at that level?  The effect they have on the world should be as shadow on a screen.
 
If I had to say what I would want from Mythic Hero it would be rules for building a game that could stand the pressure of Gods as active participants in the affairs of the game world.
 
On a personal note, I am sorry to hear of Steve's health problems: nothing too serious, I hope.
 

I think, on balance, my view is that, mechanically, Hero has not changed since it was first edition Champions.  It has a simple but effective mechanic that it has stuck to, despite a number of people pointing out that rolling high for good makes more sense.
 
What has changed is the way the powers are presented, and whether that is better or not is a matter of debate.  Certainly some of the powers are more logically presented but I have a problem with some of the maths (mainly how you go about calculation a modifier value - there seems to be some inconsistency and unfairness) and the detail.
 
By 'detail' I mean that, for example, Shapeshift is now a sensory power.  That sort of makes sense, I suppose, but it is confusing for new players and some old players too: actually building something that can change shape, as most people would understand the concept, is not straightforward.
 
Everything takes a lot longer to actually read, understand and build now.  1eChampions was a slim volume and you could still do (almost) everything that you can do with 6e, given a bit of imagination and a following wind.  I'm pretty sure there are bits of 6e I've never actually read.
 
If we are referring to 'build mechanics' therefore, well, it's Betamax vs VHS: Betamax may be technically better, but VHS is the one that actually gets used.  Got used.  Maybe I should have gone with DVD and BlueRay, but even that is showing my age.  How about Apple abandoning the Lightning Connector for USB C?  6e is definitely the best iteration in some respects, but not when it comes to excitement and fun, which is what the mechanics should be aimed at achieving.  The last time I really felt that was when I got my hands on 4th edition Champions, the Big Blue Book.
 
In summary, the actual game mechanics have never really changed - what we appear to be arguing about is the build mechanics.
 
The build mechanics have improved in some areas, not so much in others.  They have certainly become more complicated, which can be a barrier to entry.  I daresay if I went back to 4th edition now it would seem more limited, so in that way, 6e is better, but then I'm an addict and I'd get 7e if it came in 4x500page lever arch files.  I don't think all the changes have been for the better and I don't think all the things that could do with changing have been.  6e is (build) mechanically different.  I think I'll leave it there.