eepjr24
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Wheels Within Wheels (or, Summoning Nested Stuff)
eepjr24 replied to Alcibiades's topic in HERO System Discussion
6e1 288: -
Sure. But the option exists. As does the option of rolling a 3, one in 216 times or thereabouts. We can quibble about with which way it is more likely to miss, but in both examples it can miss. And that is pretty much by design in Hero. And all of this doesn't discuss the differences between AC and DCV + Defenses, since even if it hit's in HERO it may not damage as it does in D&D. For the 30 AP used for 1st level spells that gets you a 1d6 RKA (assuming you don't need No Range Mods on a 40m max range), which will not damage someone in plate mail or chain mail. And it will only damage someone in boiled leather or with a level of combat luck 50% of the time. I like both systems well enough but in several areas they are largely incompatible, especially in balancing power levels and handling absolutes. - E
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Wheels Within Wheels (or, Summoning Nested Stuff)
eepjr24 replied to Alcibiades's topic in HERO System Discussion
I never allow nested followers (or nested vehicles, bases, etc) to get more than a 1/5 discount. It just has way too much potential for abuse. Of course a GM can allow whatever they want. -
Okay. <shrug> You asked for opinions, not trying to force mine on you, just put it out there. - E
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<shrug> There are exceptions to everything. I would give bonus points to things bought as "fills lungs with water" or if you managed to stick a garden hose in his mouth, but that doesn't affect how I would scale the dice generally. - E
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Why would you need them all? Or even more than just one with 12 points of skill? Just pick the one that best augments either your physical defenses or offsets in damaging ways other than physical (where you can just use a sword instead). - E
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Yeah, that seems like little to no restriction. It would not hurt to have it, but I don't think it will stop anything or really prevent any power escalation. - E
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I would say if you are going for a per phase effect, glass of water and pitcher of water are more of a "Let's piss off the Fire Mutant" kind of effect than any real drain. Just not enough volume as other mentioned. Garden hose (largest available at good house PSI, less than 25 feet from spigot): 72 GPM 1.5": ~150 GPM 2": ~260 GPM You see a rough doubling there, which in my mind should be equivalent of another 5 AP or 1/2 D6 drain. So your guesses are as close as mine would have been I think. You can find similar numbers on the web for various amounts of rainfall if you like. - E
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When you say AP/5 do you mean subtracting that from the INT roll? If so, that is much more restrictive. To succeed 50% of the time on a 45 AP spell (2nd level by KS's designations) you would need an INT roll of 20- (20-9 = 11 which is statistically a 50-50 shot). That seems pretty harsh unless it is not all or nothing or unless you want to vastly limit spells. - E
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Have not used it. It seems to me to favor "gifted" folks very heavily or else keep a very limited set of spells available. At these prices (12 points for 60/120 VPP), a character could certainly afford to be both a mage and a fighter or rogue.
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What are you trying to accomplish here? Just as a for instance, that would make most low level spells (15-30 AP) have an INT requirement of 6 or less. A normal unmodified base INT of 10 could cast spells up to 50 AP, or a 3d6+1 killing attack. If they are say an elemental ice mage (spell: Ice Blade) with a 15 STR score that would get them 8 DC's of killing damage. That doesn't seem to be much of a limit unless you are playing a pretty high powered Fantasy game. - E
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Hrm. I like most of the Dreseden-verse picks. Surprised no one mentioned Ivy (the Archive) from there. A human with all knowledge that has every been written down, who without access to any ley line or other power fended off half a dozen fallen angels (Denarians) magics by herself for several minutes. Or Jared Kinkaid (Hellhound) a centuries old scion of human and demon who has killed several Denarians himself, along with coming very close to offing Harry, who was saved only by the intervention of Queen Mab and a bonded Loci spirit. - E
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Note that all of those assume that Dive for Cover is not an option or do not take it into account.
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<shrug> The +1/4 "Accurate" is close enough for me in most Heroic Campaigns, especially given the fact that it is a level 1 spell. If I was going to worry about it, I think a +1 is about right. That would give you the entire power again, with another roll to attack, the odds of missing both of them (rolling 3 ones) being somewhere in the neighborhood of .002%. I can hand wave the other 1 in 50,000 times. - E
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KS had this worked up for it: EB 1d6+1 (vs. ED), Lingering +1 Phase (+1/4), AOE Accurate (One Hex; +1/2), Affects Desol Any form of Desolidification (+1/2), NND ([standard]; Shield Spell and Magics based on it, [Force] effects; +1), Does BODY (+1) (30 Active Points); 1 Continuing Charge lasting 1 Extra Phase (-1 3/4), Extra Time (Full Phase, Delayed Phase, -3/4), Gestures (-1/4) I went with this: 1d6+1 RKA vs PD: Force, Area of Effect Radius: 4m Accurate (+1/2) (30 Active Points); 1 Charge (-2), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4), Limited Range: 40m (-1/4), Extra Time: Delayed Phase (-1/4) The spell is of course overpowered at level 1 as it appears in D&D, which is why we have trouble modeling in. =) And why every mage has it.
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I am still debating about that one. I kept them as 1 charge because it fits the rest of the Vancian magic system rules on KillerShrikes site for 2e and 3e, plus other home brews based in Vancian systems. For myself the classes that have separate MP's will not have that limitation and will remove it for likely 0 cost change as they will be in fixed (ultra) slots. For VPP it is slightly more complex, but I modified the limitation and will have the characters pay for the real cost without the single charge limitation. This will be noted in the spell caster templates when they are up. - E
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Yup. If you think of it in media terms, it's like crayons versus chalks. Neither one is right all the time, neither one is best at every task and they both can emulate what the other does, with enough work. =P The amount of work depends on whether the project lends itself better to that particular media. - E
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Yeah, there are a number of expensive ones in the cantrips and 1st level bucket. You can view my attempts at the link above. I think I made a few errors on points as well, going to have to go back through them and re-figure points on some of them. Mostly I just ended up reducing the power levels where possible (sometimes not possible in Hero, although I may end up house ruling some lower level effects as talents). And a few I will probably just make into appropriate Power Skill checks where the effect on the game is minor. - E
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Yeah, I am working on a 5e D&D conversion and I chose to not try to implement AC since it is too simplistic of a model to handle many effects. If I was going to model it, I would simply get rid of PD and ED altogether, along with the concept of resistant versus non-resistant. That is not the hardest thing to do, really. There are many spells which are completely out of balance for their power level in D&D that don't convert in a linear fashion to Hero. And the whole concept of casting spells with a higher level spell slot is painful. You can see what I have been doing here, it might give you some insights to some other issues you will encounter: http://www.killershrike.com/FantasyHERO/Contributions/eepjr24/ - E
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I am working on providing some additional options to the great content already provided by KillerShrike around playing Hero in the D&D setting. As with any conversion there will be some differences, but I hope to keep the spirit of the setting and ease the way for folks wanting to use it. I am looking for some additional eyes to take a look at what I have so far and provide feedback. I am open to feedback around how the setting is being converted, points of specific spells or templates, ideas for how to improve, etc. I have the great majority of the cantrips plus a start on 1st level spells and over half of the background templates completed at this point. if you would like to take a look, the content is available at http://www.killershrike.com/FantasyHERO/Contributions/eepjr24/. You can respond to this post or send me a message on the boards here, I generally check them daily. Thank you in advance for any help! - Ernie
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I would not worry about it on anything smaller than an M-60 or any fight shorter than 5 or 6 turns. Unless it is just something the player is TRYING to do, then as shown in the videos you can accomplish it but it takes a good number of rounds. I have seen an M-60 barrel glowing and putting off visible heat distortion while firing before we swapped barrels. The .50 swivel mount on the Destroyer I was on did some pretty continuous fire for 40 or 50 seconds to punch enough holes in a refrigerator we found at sea to sink it and was not even visibly hot. The Phalanx CWIS system on the same destroyer got target happy on a trailed drone shoot and emptied 1,000 rounds in the space of about 12 seconds. The GM's were not even worried about the barrel, although the pilot probably soiled his pants when the drone exploded and it started eating his drag line. (You are not supposed to HIT the drone) - E
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I was not intentionally vague on the system, it is a rough shod conversion of D&D 5e sword coast to Hero 6th. I was trying to be generic so folks don't get too caught up in the setting. - E
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That is pretty much what I am thinking now, +1/4 on the MP or VPP "Charges recover under very limited circumstances". It varies what they are, for instance if you are a Divination Specialist and you cast a 3rd (45 AP) level Divination school spell, you get back 1 charge on a 1st (15 AP) or 2nd (30 AP) level spell. A different class (more of a wild magic type) gets spell points that they can use once a day. At lower levels they would let you gain back one charge of a 15 AP spell or double the range of a spell or make a no range spell limited range for instance. Very, very cheap effects, real cost wise, but they add nice flavor. Sometimes they end up being a little pricey from an AP standpoint though, which makes just throwing another VPP into the mix of dubious use. these are 75+50 type fantasy characters, so having a 35 point VPP is already pushing it. - E
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I guess of those options recoverable charges, making it part of the magic system or some combination of the 2 makes most sense. I don't like the custom limitation idea, really. This particular system has a few different magic systems and at least 2 of them have a limited method for recovering some charges (generally only a couple and generally only lower AP spells). So maybe just an advantage on the MP or VPP for those classes and a write up in the magic system description will suffice. - E
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Trying to model the following concept: A character has a VPP of spells, all powers are bought with Charges (generally 1, but some continuing, some with clips). Would like to be able to pick a power whose charge(s) have been expended and recover the charge. Which ones they restore could vary, there would be charges on this "recovery" power as well. I have 3 ideas for how to do this and wanted to check legality or preference within the rules. 1. Treat as per naked advantages, with the cost being the largest difference between the cost of the power as it is created and the cost of the power one step down the Charges table. Example: Largest power in VPP is 30 AP 7 RP (-2 for charges, -1 for other lims). Built with 2 Charges would cost 8 RP, so buy back cost is 1. 2. Aid. Since it would not change the pool cost, could you buy an Aid to any 1 VPP power with the appropriate modifiers (reduced fade rate, etc). 3. Buy the VPP powers with more charges and then partially limit the limitation??? None of these seem very elegant, I am hoping there is a cleaner simpler way to do this that I am just not seeing. - Ernie
