Chris Goodwin

I'm going to disagree with you here. For the Champions game I tried last year, I asked them what they wanted and made the characters for them. It would have completely fallen apart if I'd tried to hand them the books or even HD and had them create their own. Too many options. I'd say that pregens are probably best, followed by asking them what they want and building it for them. This, for sure. In a state of madness on Friday morning I ran to the dollar store and bought several bags of classic green and tan plastic toy soldiers (plus their assorted vehicles); those worked exceedingly well for a military game.

I talked about how the session went in the other thread. I got home a couple of hours ago and am decompressing and going through post-con letdown right now. This might very well be the first GameStorm I've played in any Hero games at all, and it's probably the first convention in at least 10 years I've played in more than one. I'm going to run something Hero again next year, and I think I'm going to start prepping for it sooner. Like, tomorrow.

Oh, and character sheets. I think that leaving off the point values from a character sheet is fine, but I think if you're going to use a simplified sheet with needed values not listed it behooves the GM to have the full sheet where they can refer to it. Our new players were happy to be able to look on the sheet to find a value, even if they needed a reminder about where to look again. Some years ago I was trying to work out a Hero sheet that had giant boldface headings like "Attack", "Defense", "Movement," and so on, to draw the eye to those, so that when the GM says, "How fast do you run again?" the player can glance down and "Movement" is one of the easiest things to see. That's another thing that can be done in Hero Designer. I'm otherwise going to tentatively say that, in my experience, simplified character sheets are not as good of an idea as they might seem. Others' experience may vary, however.

I think we had a couple of different issues going on: We old timers kept losing the thread of the math. OCV of 7, plus an OCV bonus of 2 for the attack, -3 for the range, minus his DCV of 5 was... wait, what was his OCV again? We didn't add the base 11, did we? The new folk suffered from this some, but not as much I think because the old timers were doing most of that part. Adding in the 11 beforehand and writing it on the sheet would help. What I think would be even better would be for each attack -- martial arts, regular combat maneuvers, weapons, Attack Powers even -- to write down on the sheet 11 + the character's base OCV + the OCV bonus or penalty. That can to an extent be done in Hero Designer export templates. "Wait, what do I roll again?" The new folk were new to a couple of different RPGs; two of my Danger International players (the ones in my regular D&D game) were also in a D&D game with me later Saturday night. When one of us old farts says "What do I roll?", the GM can say "DEX" and we know instantly that that means 3d6 less than or equal to 9 + DEX/5, or 1d20 + Dex bonus, whichever game we're playing. When the new folk say "What do I roll?" they're starting by asking, which die type. I've seen it with the same people in our D&D games. Our regular home game D&D DM starts with a brief refresher at the beginning of the session, but even so... in a D&D game the DM can say "Roll your Investigation / Arcana / Perception" and the old hands know it's roll 1d20 and add the appropriate bonus. How to fix that? Be specific about both the die type and purpose. "Emily, give me a to-hit roll on 1d20 against his AC of 18" works better than "Emily, give me a to-hit roll." And the hard part about combat math in Hero is the pause to work out OCV, with modifiers, and DCV with modifiers, before finally saying "Okay, you want to roll 3d6 less than or equal to a target number of 15..." I don't mind in either game telling players the target's DCV or AC. I'd almost rather do that because if they're going against the same target, or same type of target (e.g. another agent or goblin), that number's not going to change. I think the "Which die type?" is just going to come through repetition. Every time at the beginning of the session, remind the players. "If I don't tell you specifically how many dice of what type to roll, assume it's 3d6 (or a d20 plus some bonus) against a target number. If it's a damage or effect roll, it'll be written down on your sheet. If it's not one of those, I'll tell you how many dice and what types." They'll still forget, but reinforcement through repetition is the name of the game. And be patient with them, even if it's the fifth time in a row they've asked "Now which dice do I roll again?"

I played in a Champions game last night and ran my Danger International game today, and I have one piece of advice based on experience that I think will help. Don't use OCV. Add 11 to it and call it Attack Roll or Attack Value or something similar, and have that show up on the character sheet. Maybe a couple of adjusted values for 1/2 OCV and 0 OCV, if those ever come up in play. That seemed like the hardest concept to get across. Start with 11! Add 11 to your OCV! No, just add 11 to it to begin with, and put that on the sheet, in big bold letters impossible to miss.

Almost all of the PCs were SPD 3. One was SPD 4 (the martial arts expert) and the mooks were all SPD 2. I used extremely abbreviated stats for the mooks; DEX 11, SPD 2, OCV 4, DCV 4, 17 STUN to stun them, three hits to take down, and any hits to the head, stomach, or vitals counted as two of those; there were few enough of them that I kept track of hits against them mentally with no trouble. They had rifles doing 1 1/2d6 Killing, with +2 OCV, and no DEF. I gave each of the PCs an M-16 (2d6-1K, +2 OCV, -1/5" RMod), a .45 Colt Government model pistol 1d6+1K, +1 STUNx, +0 OCV, -1/3", 7 shots), and let them choose any other weapons they wanted. They had 5 DEF body armor as well. One (the old school DI player) swapped his M-16 out for an M-14. A number of the other players chose knives as well. Two of the players tried to take on the mooks with their silenced .45s; theirs were the only ones left standing, even with the mooks not having any DEF. Neither of them got more than two hits on their targets, and they were low damage rolls in extremities. I used hit locations, which everyone seemed to enjoy. Several of them also enjoyed the fact that it was straight military action, which was different from most of the games that are out there. There were no head shots, two vitals shots (which I assumed were internal organs -- arteries and such, rather than what we always used to giggle at back in the day), a number of chest, stomach, and shoulder hits, and a number of arm and leg hits as well.

It was sort of the idea to have a vague notion of Predator hanging around in the background, in case I wanted to add SFnal elements later. So, I just got finished running it. Two of the players I knew; two others were old Hero hands (one of which was an old Danger International player!), and one signed up at the con. It was very helpful to have players who knew the game! They apparently all thought it went well; I could have used another day to prepare. I could have differentiated the PCs better, and given some of them some more to do. As it is, I ran them through a short shooting range drill, teaching them the dice math, followed by the mission proper. They took down maybe a dozen terrorists, captured two commandants, "disrupted" a massive trade of military vehicles from one organization to the other (by means of sufficient application of explosives) and flew home in their chopper leaving flames and explosions behind. Mission success; seems like the game was a success as well.

I think that's how you're "supposed" to do it in 6e. Derek used the "Increased Maximum" Advantage for the "The Madder I Get, The Stronger I Get" power in CC, so... I guess it's a thing in CC.

By strict reading of 6e1 you're not supposed to. It is done in Champions Complete, though.

If you're a PC, playing an unicorn-like equine type creature, with SPD 6, and are being ridden by another PC who is SPD 5, and is an expert swordsman, when everyone else is SPD 4... you and the fellow PC can be ridiculously effective together. Just throwing that out there...

I couldn't tell you how many games I've been, usually as the GM, in that have gone like this. And I haven't GMed all that many games. I'll have to remember this for my Danger International game. I've got two players that I know have some roleplaying experience; an ongoing D&D campaign and an aborted Champions 6e campaign (that lasted two half-sessions). What will be somewhat helpful is that my DI game is based around the military, so I can explicitly run a "training mission", and if the players get sidetracked I can have their commander radio in with orders.

Do look into Danger International if you haven't already, and Espionage as well, for ideas for Disadvantages, character ideas, capsule info about the Cold War world, and on and on.

Oh, here's a good one. Probably an everyman Disad. Psych Limit: Habitual Behavior. Everyone has the things they do on a regular basis. That includes the places they go and the routes they take to and from work. People in security fields, especially those stationed in other countries, are trained to, among other things, not take the same route to and from work every day. And people still forget. This is how those people get kidnapped, ambushed, or assassinated. And... ...this is also how their DNPCs get kidnapped, ambushed, or assassinated. Edit to add: Or maybe not even kidnapped, ambushed, or assassinate. Maybe instead you just get photos taken with a telephoto lens of your DNPCs walking into their school, workplace, favorite coffee shop, etc.

I was at the other end of town. Goodfellow AFB rather than Angelo State University. (Did you know he's the same person who appeared in the film Weird Science with Anthony Michael Hall?)

I went to tech school in San Angelo, Texas. This name has always, always gotten my attention because of that!

IRL, the kinds of things security investigators want to know about the people they're potentially issuing security clearances to, are things that someone else could use to blackmail an agent. Debt, addictions, criminal history, sexual peccadilloes, mental or relationship problems... Any of those would make good Disadvantages. They're also the kinds of things foreign operatives target.

If I were playing a Jedi in a 5th edition Champions game, and I'd bought Missile Deflection at the 20 point level so that I could Block any deflectable attacks, at a straight OCV vs. OCV roll, otherwise at will... what would I need to buy in 6th edition to do the same thing? I want my character to be able to do the same thing in 6th edition that he could do under 5th. I bought a Power in 5th edition to do that because it was assumed that nobody could do that unless they had a Power. If anyone can do it now, with the same facility as I could then, without buying a Power.. I'd be pissed, and IMO rightly so. Anyone can *try* to Block bullets or lasers...? Well, I can *try* to jump 50 meters straight up, but I guarantee I won't succeed unless I buy some Leaping. So, what do I need my Jedi to buy in 6th edition so that he can Block everything he could in 5th edition with the same amount of reliability (which is what I mean by "reliably") using Missile Deflection at 20 points?

Why do we assume that a person who can Block a punch can also Block a tiger claw, and that therefore they can Block lasers? Why don't we then assume that a person who can Block a laser that's targeting themselves can't Block a laser that's targeting someone across the room from them?

Because the GM said so? Because not everyone can even Block a punch, much less a tiger claw or a charging elephant? Because the GM wants Blocking ranged attacks to be something special in his game? I see any of those as valid reasons.

So, that's all it takes? A 1-point weapon familiarity and someone can block lasers? Yoda has a power that lets him deflect lasers. Wonder Woman has a power that lets her deflect bullets. Cap's shield is a power. Small-p power, but they used to be big-P Powers. It used to cost 5 points to be able to block thrown knives; 10 points to block arrows; 15 points to block bullets; 20 points to block lasers. But now it's 1 point?

And as Ninja Bear asked, how many levels? Does it take fewer levels to deflect knives than it does to deflect arrows, than to deflect bullets, than to deflect lasers?

Han Solo can't pick up a lightsaber and deflect lasers. Yoda can. What does Yoda buy that gives him "justification"? Robin can't put on shiny metal bracelets and deflect bullets. What does Wonder Woman buy that lets her do that? Most people in the Marvel universe couldn't pick up Cap's shield and deflect Thor's hammer, or bullets, or lasers. What does Cap buy that lets him do that?

"It depends." Wonder Woman blocks bullets with her bracelets. That is a thing she does. Captain America blocks all kinds of things with his shield. That is a thing he does. Yoda, and other Force users, block lasers with their lightsaber. Other people in the Star Wars setting don't do that. Most people in those settings don't do those things. What do Wonder Woman, Captain America, and Yoda, buy so that they can do those things, that other people can't? There, that. How much does that cost? Han Solo can't pick up a lightsaber and deflect lasers. Yoda can. What does Yoda buy that gives him "justification"? Robin can't put on shiny metal bracelets and deflect bullets. What does Wonder Woman buy that lets her do that? Most people in the Marvel universe couldn't pick up Cap's shield and deflect Thor's hammer, or bullets, or lasers. What does Cap buy that lets him do that?

We had five editions where if you wanted to block ranged attacks you had to pay points. We also had a couple of instances, before 4th edition came out, where the answer was "It depends." Fantasy Hero, with shields vs. arrows, for instance. Now, the answer is completely "It depends." Depends on what? (This is supposed to be a universal system, right?) I'm with Ninja-Bear. He asked, what do you need to do if you want to do it reliably? He asked me, in fact, and my answer was: most likely, buy Deflection at no range. Because in 6th edition, Deflection is the thing you buy if you want to Block ranged attacks, at range, without "it depends". But then why do Wonder Woman and Captain America and Yoda pay points to buy Deflection to deflect bullets and lasers, when it depends?

I honestly haven't seen any reasons to like it so far. Not any more since the last time we went round and round on it.