Chris Goodwin

It took me long enough to find this, and I overlooked it more than once.  
 

 
Champions III, p 24.  
 
Edit to add:  While it might have thrown additional gasoline on the Great Linked Debate fire back in the day, it also assumes that the Powers are designed to go off together.  Essentially, what Hero Designer refers to as a "compound Power".  X, plus Y, plus Z. 
 

It took me long enough to find this, and I overlooked it more than once.  
 

 
Champions III, p 24.  
 
Edit to add:  While it might have thrown additional gasoline on the Great Linked Debate fire back in the day, it also assumes that the Powers are designed to go off together.  Essentially, what Hero Designer refers to as a "compound Power".  X, plus Y, plus Z. 
 

It took me long enough to find this, and I overlooked it more than once.  
 

 
Champions III, p 24.  
 
Edit to add:  While it might have thrown additional gasoline on the Great Linked Debate fire back in the day, it also assumes that the Powers are designed to go off together.  Essentially, what Hero Designer refers to as a "compound Power".  X, plus Y, plus Z. 
 

If you're doing cinematic space dogfights, the dogfighting rules work super well.  They're in the Advanced Player's Guide (p. 188) but have existed in pretty much every Hero Games rulebook in which characters might be flying some kind of airplane or space fighter, with only minor changes from first to last. 
 
I've played using them, once, in a Robot Warriors game.  To me it felt like flying space fighters in a dogfight.   

It took me long enough to find this, and I overlooked it more than once.  
 

 
Champions III, p 24.  
 
Edit to add:  While it might have thrown additional gasoline on the Great Linked Debate fire back in the day, it also assumes that the Powers are designed to go off together.  Essentially, what Hero Designer refers to as a "compound Power".  X, plus Y, plus Z. 
 

Hello.  Yet another old Former military player checking in, because I am stuck at work hurrying up and waiting and a Robot Hero search sent me to this thread. 
 
It looks like I have a fairly similar history with the game as a lot of people on this thread. 

I started with Champions 2nd edition(the box set), then got Champions II and III fairly quickly thereafter(this would have been 1984, I guess).  I got Espionage, Danger International, Justice Inc, Fantasy Hero 1st ed, and Robot Warriors before the Big Blue Book came out in 1988 or 89, at which point I was in college.  So my first campaign I ran in HS was 2nd/3rd ed, I started running 4th edition in college, and when I joined a regular group in 1992, we played 4th, tried Fuzion for a while but the group was split on it(the long time Hero players preferred Hero System, but the newer players liked the speed and simplicity of Fuzion), played 5th for a little while.  I moved to DC about 15 years ago and played one campaign with a 5th ed setup, and later ran one with 6th edition.  My general sense is that if you gloss over the complexities of character creation and focus on them learning the mechanics of skill use and combat first, it's easier to bring someone on board.  If you start out trying to create a character or recreate a comic book superhero things can get over your head pretty quickly.  Figuring out how to keep a character "within budget" was my first big challenge as a new player.  The second was figuring out how to model powers and abilities which weren't simply a 12d6 EB or 30m of flight.  
 
I think one somewhat valid complaint about Hero is that it's TOO generic.  Even the campaign universe stuff can be a little bit on the bland side.  

This would be Set Versus Charge.  FHC p. 180, or Fantasy Hero genre book for 6th edition p. 185, or Fantasy Hero genre book for 5th edition, p. 156.  
 
(Just for completeness' sake:  Fantasy Hero genre book for 4th edition, p. 88.  The Fantasy Hero corebook for 1st edition doesn't specificially include it, but see the Unhorse maneuver on p. 75 and the solo adventure, page 139, paragraph 4.)

Bruce Harlick, though I can't remember if it was on Facebook or in email, and I can't find it in my email if so.

It's long enough back and hearsay that I don't recall the source, but Chris has been around long enough to be a likely source.
 
It's odd that we never saw a reference to any published character using this approach, but a lot did not list out tactics, and paying for multiple attack powers outside a Multipower was never very common.

Oh for Pete's sake!
 
First off: I won't be available tomorrow until after noon.  until then, I will be flying over the country, dropping F-bombs on everyone for making me read through that book again.  
 
Second off: I know it's in there because when I first read it, I had the same reaction the CT is having now with 6e,-- well, not quite the same: I was righteously and furiously _pissed_, as I remembered that the author who brought me this was the same one who brought me Dark Champions, the Harbinger of Bullets, Desolidification: Only versus Damage (paraphrasing multiple uses of Desolid as a form of "invulnerable to"), and other "combat monster" builds that would have resulted in burned character sheets at my table.
 
Hugh-- who apparently doesn't remember _any_ of it, including the fact that it existed in 5e, if I read your post correctly-- in addition to being one of four or five guys patient enough to bring me around, but ultimately was _the_ guy who got it click in my head that this was not a _new_ thing; it was simply being _specifically stated_ for the first time.  It was implied through omission of forbiding in all previous editions.
 
 
So here we go; I re-read the damned book (or at least the combat section)
5e.  
 
Page 234.
 
Second column.
 
First Heading (Multiple-Power Attacks).
 
First paragraph under that heading.
 
Starting with the first word in that paragraph: (typos are mind because I'm just going to burn through this)
 
"A Character may use as many Attack powers in a Phase as he wishes, provided he meets several restrictions.  First, he must be able to pay the END for all of the Powers.  Second, if two or more of the Powers are in the same Power Framework, he must have enough points in his Power Framework to allocate to both of them.  Third, he can only make one Attack Roll (and it must be the same type of Attack Roll; you can't use a Power requiring a Dex-based Attack Roll together with one requiring an ECV Attack Roll, except with the GM's permission).  Fourth, he must use all of the Attack Powers on the same target.  Use of multiple Powers in this fashion is considered a single Attack Action."
 
 
I could go on through the example and the full two-column discussion, but I really don't see the point.
 
"But that's a horribly different thing you're talking about Duke!   Can't you see that?  The name is different and everything!"
 
 
And it didn't see to confuse nearly as many people (either that, or 5e has a far smaller "installed" base than 6e; I certainly have no way to know that).  There was some genius somewhere up-thread who mentioned that if a 7th edition is to be produced, then this particular maneuver should be renamed "multiple-Power Attack" to avoid confusion.
 
Evidently it worked when it was use the first time.
 
 
I'd check re-5 to see if it was in there, but then I'd have to start dropping F-bombs here, and immediately.  
 
[EDIT: however, if you'd like to check re-five for yourself, multiple power attacks are discussed on pages 19, 311, 315, and 358 of that treasured tome]
 
Now if you want to check the 5e Combat Handbook-- well, that came later, so what's the point?

I'm not Hugh, but I asked one of the original Hero folks directly, and was given the information Hugh references.  I may be who he is referring to.

Bruce Harlick, though I can't remember if it was on Facebook or in email, and I can't find it in my email if so.

In one magic system I've renamed MCV to "Mystical Combat Value".  It doesn't change anything about the mechanics or which powers use it to target, just the name and special effect.  It represents the caster's ability to target spells that aren't based on physical dexterity, but on their mystical abilities.  If I were to use it in a pre-6th edition game, I'd probably replace ECV with it, or base it on another stat (maybe OMCV is INT/3 and DMCV is EGO/3).  
 
Edit: I typed the above before rereading the previous posts on the thread.  Wheel, reinvented.  You could also do it as Combat Skill Levels with magic, that represent the caster's mystical offensive abilities, and add to their OCV or OMCV regardless of what the "M" represents.
 
Edit edit:  It looks like this thread was bumped by a spammer.  It was a pretty worthy thread to have bumped, though.

I usually go with a Dispel or Suppress against disease.  Another option could be Life Support, against the disease, leaving it up to the GM to decide how long the Life Support has to be there for in order to cure the disease.  
 
Note that none of these will heal any damage or revert any other conditions applied by the illness; to do that would be separate Powers, or else up to the character to recover from on their own.

My group back in the 80's got a ridiculous number of campaigns out of DI.  Modern military, modern conspiracy, a paranoid "government vs. UFOs" game, hard SF ("Near Earth Orbit", a homebrew campaign), hard SF (based on Chaosium's Ringworld RPG), squishier far future comedy SF (the prison ship "Uncle Louie"), Battletech Hero (at least five, probably more, different campaigns of this), a Twilight 2000 Hero campaign, a couple of ridiculous over-the-top military action campaigns ("Real Men", followed up by the Soviet "Real Men"), an SF game based on Aliens, a western game (with help from JI), a number of low-point PVP games ("Death Wish").  
 
Granted, some of them went one to two sessions, but probably a third of them of them went a year or more.  
 
There were a few that never happened: the Bureau 13 Hero game, an Autoduel Hero (using Autoduel Champions, but with DI), "Weekly World News: the RPG".  Probably some others that I'm forgetting.  
 
(I might point out: in not a single one of those games did anyone have any Powers.)
 
At least a dozen different Fantasy Hero campaigns, again some of which went a few sessions (one of which was my Myth Adventures based campaign), some of which went on for a year or more (the "October Game", the Bushido Hero campaign).  
 
At least three different Robot Warriors campaigns, one of which mutated from one of the above mentioned Battletech Hero campaigns, one of which was a sequel to one of them, and at least two of which went on a year or more.  
 
I would say there weren't more than half a dozen Champions campaigns throughout that time.  I don't think any of them went longer than a year.
 
Oddly, not more than one or two Justice Inc. games while I was part of the group; there may have been more before I joined.  
 
(My group back then was prolific.  A Friday night session, two Saturday sessions, one to two Sunday sessions, every week.   225+ sessions a year.  I was part of that group for about three years.  They'd been going for at least a year or two before I came along.  I was in high school, a couple of others were as well, at least half of the group were adult men.  There wasn't anything weird going on, except the table talk would get pretty foul at times; at least four were former military, and at least a couple of others including me would go on to join the military after.)  
 
Sometimes adulthood really sucks.  I'm sure I haven't had that many sessions, combined, in the 31 years since my time with that group ended.  

Yeah, adapting existing stuff is a great time saver...and sanity saver, if you have a busy life!
 
I've never been able to use someone else's world in detail -- I've just never found it fun to memorize the minutiae of someone else's setting. But I sure as heck will use the maps, the general overview of the place politically, and so on, then fill in with my own ideas for details.
 
Sure, it was tons of fun to sit there as a young teenager and roll up an entire sector in Traveller, one subsector at a time, and then fill in the details about the worlds and the interstellar political situation and so on, and then on top of that come up with patrons and underworld intrigue and all that stuff.
 
But once I started dating, that sort of thing went out the window. If I made my own setting, I did it piecemeal, just enough to keep ahead of things and avoid having to invent too much on the fly. But mostly I adapted existing stuff.
 
And that didn't change after I started working my way through college, got married, and got to work building a life.
 
Maybe I'll try creating from whole cloth again once I retire. Or maybe not. There so many things I've been saying, "I'll do that when I retire," that I think I'll still be pressed for time!
 

Specifically, I thank you for this. 
 
"Modern HERO," "Action HERO," "Danger, Interational," _whatever_.  Anything-- and I mean absolutely _anything_ -- "Dog Turd HERO" would have better pull potential than "Dark Champions" to someone not familiar with the brand, but already "well aware" that Champions is "too mathy" or "too much work."
 
[EDIT:  It also doesn't have that cringe Edgelord thing going on with "Dark this" and "Dark that....]

4th has always been my preference as well. If I were to create a new Champions edition, I would look at 4th ed as my starting point and move forward from there. There are a few things I enjoyed from earlier editions, such as the Mastermind option. But, for the most part, I really love 4th ed. 
 
 
One of the many reasons I would've loved to see Danger International take the forefront over Dark Champions as a Modern Hero model. Having something like DI with modular setting guides would be most awesome.

Basically, the Pikeman delays.  He's considered at normal OCV and DCV; the Dud is at whatever he's at for his maneuvers.  If the Pikeman's weapon is longer, resolve his hit first.  If their weapons are the same length, it's simultaneous.  If the Dud's is longer (doubtful, with name like that) then resolve his first.  The Pikeman gets +1 DC per every 3" or 6m the Dud is moving.
 
 
  I'm on my computer with all the PDFs.   

My group back in the 80's got a ridiculous number of campaigns out of DI.  Modern military, modern conspiracy, a paranoid "government vs. UFOs" game, hard SF ("Near Earth Orbit", a homebrew campaign), hard SF (based on Chaosium's Ringworld RPG), squishier far future comedy SF (the prison ship "Uncle Louie"), Battletech Hero (at least five, probably more, different campaigns of this), a Twilight 2000 Hero campaign, a couple of ridiculous over-the-top military action campaigns ("Real Men", followed up by the Soviet "Real Men"), an SF game based on Aliens, a western game (with help from JI), a number of low-point PVP games ("Death Wish").  
 
Granted, some of them went one to two sessions, but probably a third of them of them went a year or more.  
 
There were a few that never happened: the Bureau 13 Hero game, an Autoduel Hero (using Autoduel Champions, but with DI), "Weekly World News: the RPG".  Probably some others that I'm forgetting.  
 
(I might point out: in not a single one of those games did anyone have any Powers.)
 
At least a dozen different Fantasy Hero campaigns, again some of which went a few sessions (one of which was my Myth Adventures based campaign), some of which went on for a year or more (the "October Game", the Bushido Hero campaign).  
 
At least three different Robot Warriors campaigns, one of which mutated from one of the above mentioned Battletech Hero campaigns, one of which was a sequel to one of them, and at least two of which went on a year or more.  
 
I would say there weren't more than half a dozen Champions campaigns throughout that time.  I don't think any of them went longer than a year.
 
Oddly, not more than one or two Justice Inc. games while I was part of the group; there may have been more before I joined.  
 
(My group back then was prolific.  A Friday night session, two Saturday sessions, one to two Sunday sessions, every week.   225+ sessions a year.  I was part of that group for about three years.  They'd been going for at least a year or two before I came along.  I was in high school, a couple of others were as well, at least half of the group were adult men.  There wasn't anything weird going on, except the table talk would get pretty foul at times; at least four were former military, and at least a couple of others including me would go on to join the military after.)  
 
Sometimes adulthood really sucks.  I'm sure I haven't had that many sessions, combined, in the 31 years since my time with that group ended.  

I'm sure the intention was to provide everything needed, and it obviously works for many people, but I can understand just wanting to pick up Danger International or Justice, Inc. and go.

This would be Set Versus Charge.  FHC p. 180, or Fantasy Hero genre book for 6th edition p. 185, or Fantasy Hero genre book for 5th edition, p. 156.  
 
(Just for completeness' sake:  Fantasy Hero genre book for 4th edition, p. 88.  The Fantasy Hero corebook for 1st edition doesn't specificially include it, but see the Unhorse maneuver on p. 75 and the solo adventure, page 139, paragraph 4.)

4th Edition is my preference, but I still see why someone would want 3rd despite the rules have becoming better defined over time.
 
The advantage of 3rd was that the game was what was in the book(s) of that one game, not what you selected from the available options in a book-of-all-games.
 
It's the difference between a house system and a universal RPG. Products made with a house system can be cobbled together by GMs to make a universal RPG if they want, but each game can be played as-is by anyone. A universal RPG can't be played as-is. It needs the GM to understand it first, and to make decisions about which optional rules to include and so on.
 
Universal RPGs require more work up-front from the GM, and there's always more potential for mismatches between player expectations and GM plans regarding which bits to use, etc.
 
 

I posted this to some thread, but I can't remember, and it's probably locked.  This thread is active, and it's on topic, so I'm posting it here.  
 
Some time back, I created a third edition Champions Google Spreadsheet.  A couple of people besides myself have contributed (sadly, I'm not sure who).  The two things it most reliably does are generate a Characteristics block (including doing the math), and creating a Power writeup.  And, I've made some improvements.  You can provide alternate text for custom Advantages and Limitations.  
 
And it does in fact create a Power writeup!  Through the magic of a lot of nested parentheses.  You can have it generate something like this: 
 
 
Some of those Modifiers are not stock 3rd edition.  To create a custom, or rename an existing one, choose the appropriate Advantage or Limitation (e.g. "Limited Power 1/2").  In the Advantage Alt Text or Limitation Alt Text, type the name you want to give it, such as "Not Vs. Cabbage".  In the Advantage Parenthetical Text or Limitation Parenthetical Text, type something in here, like "cole slaw only".  
 
It will then insert into the Power writeup:  Not Vs. Cabbage (cole slaw only; -1/2)
 
Warning:  It's not bulletproof.  It has no modifier intelligence.  It expects you to know the amount and base cost; you have to select, for instance, Teleport from the list, and for Amount enter 5", and for Base Cost enter 10.  It will take it from there, though.  There are also occasional minor bugs in it; I'm chasing those down off and on.  And it doesn't generate a character sheet; you'll want to copy and paste whatever the finished text is that you want to pull out.  
 
If you use it, I recommend saving a copy to your own Google Drive, then saving a new copy every so often.  
 
Edit to add:  You can create a custom Power by selecting Custom, then overwriting the name with whatever you choose, and ignoring the warning that comes up.