29 minutes ago, Steve said:

While I appreciate the suggestion of using killing attacks, that’s not quite what I was looking for. That seems more like the comic book The Authority. That’s much darker than I was intending.

 

Consider two Kryptonians fighting. They can do some BODY damage to each other, but a fight takes quite a while as they don’t seem to be stunning each other.

That would be best simulated using the Fusion rules I suggested. Long combats where you take a great deal of STUN but recover drain the hp and eventually result in BODY damage.

Another option would be a Penetrating KA that only works with Activation that only works on targets at 33% of their STUN.

Damage Reduction lost some of its shine when the STUN Lotto went away. Damage Negation is generally better for a given value of defense until the DC's of incoming attack reach a threshold.

1/4 DR = 3d6 DN so DR is better when x-3 DC's of attack gets more than 10 STUN past defenses, 1/2 DR = 6d6 DN so becomes better at 21 STUN past x-6 DC's of attack and 3/4 DR goes against 12d6 DN so you need x-12 DC's of attack achieving 42 STUN past defenses. In most cases straight PD/ED is more effective but if we want to get some STUN past defenses DR will do that at all 3 levels whereas DN may stop some lower attacks completely.

I see Lone Wolf has given a spreadsheet while I was slowly typing away.

10 hours ago, Steve said:

Thanks for the chart, LoneWolf. The numbers are interesting.

 

What I started this thread for was to see if there was a way to defend against STUN and BODY that would allow occasional points of BODY to be taken but also be able to soak a lot of STUN yet not be immune to stunning effects. Jutst buying additional points of PD and ED versus STUN only seemed inefficient.

 

Damage Negation was my initial idea for soaking STUN damage, since six dice (STUN only; 20 Real Points, plus also defends against Drains versus STUN) seemed a good level versus 50% Damage Reduction (Resistant but STUN only: 20 Real Points). The ability to be resistant and also resist STUN drains was a nice bonus for Damage Negation. This is also an ability that could scale. If everyone is throwing around 12d6 then six levels of DN would work. If it’s 16d6 then that could be bumped up to 8 levels of DN.

 

I’m trying to find a build guideline to replicate a certain flavor of combat, where BODY damage can happen a little more easily but STUN is held down to allow for combats to go longer.

 

it might be that I will need to combine regular defenses like PD and ED, but also include both DN and DR.

 

 

Adopt the Fusion rules. Add the additional Characteristic of Hit Points which are equal to Stun. Then for every 5 or 10 Stun taken, the character takes 1 HP. When HP reach 0, the character takes 1 Body instead. HP heal at the rate in REC/day. Not immediately life threatening, but a long day of intense battles will wear down anyone and you'll be a few days healing up to full health.

We had a simple rule: How long does it take to beat your evil twin?

1 turn, you may be too damage heavy or defense light.

2 turns, just about right.

3 or more turns, you may be too defense heavy or attack light.

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Actually, The Legion fits very well with the typical teen hero campaign if you discount the Kryptonians and Daxamites. 

They each had a single power, there's plenty of teen angst and romance and while they had less adult supervision, they were more integrated with law enforcement in the form of the Science Police and the United Federation of Planets.

It's nearly impossible to judge the relative skill level of the top F1 drivers because of the inequities in their machines and crews. Red Bull figured something out three years ago, and has had a huge tech advantage that other constructors have not been able to approach. And each team gives their top driver the best crews they have so while they have supposedly equal cars, it doesn't work out that way on the track. Hamilton is a lame duck, so he's been demoted to driver 2 and Russel is getting all the love from Mercedes.

I give mad props to Red Bull, but not as much to Verstappen (Though he is unquestionably a top tier talent.) His 1st title was the result of one of the most blatant cases of official misconduct I've seen in any sport. Since then, his car has just been better. If F1 went to a format with truly standardized machines or allowed more in season mechanical changes, we might see driver skill become more relevant. As it is this season is Red Bull's, Ferrari is next, Mercedes and Alfa Romeo will fight for third and all the other teams will take the scraps.

2 hours ago, Old Man said:

 

More importantly, the Oppenheimer sequel won Best Visual Effects.

 

The effects crew accepted the award carrying Godzilla figures and wearing Godzilla themed heels:

 

 

 

I'm sure it didn't happen intentionally, but following that link led to a scam "your computer has been locked site."

While I can think of a few niche scenarios where this might matter my inclination is follow KISS here. I really can't see any way this could break the game even slightly, so I'd allow it until presented with one.

Just got back from Dune II and definitely enjoyed it. It's well acted and though it has some deviations from the original books, they actually improve the movie for me. It does end where the book ends but seems to leave a part 3 opening.

Good acting and SFX, tight story and a thankful lack of much of the mental dialog of the 80's Dune. Overall, 8 out of 10!

It's long though so don't buy a drink in the lobby.

I couldn't believe it until I read it. Apparently by using that glove to partially cover his window opening he could gain that extra .133 mph that put him on the pole. You wouldn't want to do it in traffic but in qualifying there are no other cars around in NASCAR.

The cost of the Naked Advantage and the END used is based on the STR alone.

Why? Because the Naked Advantage must be used while the Martial Arts remain optional. You can use STR without Martial Arts. You even have the choice of using the Martial Arts without using STR. 

This particular ambiguity has been around since First Edition. I doubt that anything "official" is forthcoming.

19 hours ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

 

Good, bad, or indifferent, its meant to simulate martial arts.  Which are different than just grappling or brawling.  Grabbing something and throwing it is not the same as how martial arts works.  The rules seem to indicate that you get the same results and it acts the same, but aren't very explicit or clear about it.

 

As for the argument that martial artists are not typically gigantically strong, sure.  But they also balance on leaves, run up walls, etc in movies and other source material.  Its just not part of the genre to legsweep someone and send them flying for meters.

And as GM, you have every right to enforce your version of genre. If a PC wants his Martial Throw to do Knockback, then he has to come up with an SFX that the GM will allow.

For myself, Target Falls will usually occur in the same hex unless it has the Throw element which will allow same or adjacent hex landing spots.  Also remember that Martial Attacks roll an extra d6 when determining KB. You may wish to consider extending that to Throws to reduce the extra STR distance.

Typically, this gets addressed when the campaign is laid out.

A very important decision that need to be made by the GM is " How powerful are Supers compared to real world law enforcement and military?" It can be as simple as keeping DC's in the 6-8 range or more complexly by setting some house rules on the interaction of Supers with "real world" technology vs super-tech.

Then you must decide on how important campaign events are to the world stage. A JLA/Avengers level team isn't going to be focused on fighting organized crime and the Gang Busters will not typically be the main hope of staving off an alien invasion. Typically, they'll only interact in passing. If both types of groups are present, then the interactions need to be kept clear. One member from that JLA type group might be challenged by a group of the most powerful of the Gang Buster's foes and conversely one weaker JLA/Avengers villain could have a plot foiled by the Gang Busters entire lineup at a high injury cost.

Somewhere in between.

He had the strength and agility to dominate those normal foes but was far more conscious of hurting them than they were of him.

Ultimate Spider-Man didn't want to go through the years of character progression and stressed the difference between him and normals much faster. He wasn't really more powerful but they didn't want to tell the same stories, so the difference was highlighted.

Spring training wackiness.

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48 minutes ago, Cygnia said:

The Americans Who Need Chaos

 

 

Very interesting and it seems to mesh well with what I'm seeing in the people around me.  I'd love to see what some of the commonsense pundits on each side make of this study.

4 hours ago, LoneWolf said:

Does the PC who takes damage from sunlight have to buy an attack?  Does the PC who loses his power when exposed to a special kind of rock need to buy a drain?  Does the PC that loses control when angry have to buy a multiform?  Then why should a character that shrinks have to buy extra-dimensional movement for this.  All of these are complications not powers.  

 

Again, this is for a NPC, and while an NPC does not necessarily need to always have the required amount of complications having complications is a very useful thing.  They often give the players something to exploit when dealing with the NPC and can help the GM define the character.  By listing it as a complication it makes the NPC more complete and makes sure the GM does not forget that this happens to the character.   

 

Using it as a complication does not prevent the character from later learning how to control the ability.   
 

Not equivalent. Those things happen and the only thing the character can do is suck it up.  The character can just not use his full Shrinking and it never comes into play. He can gamble and use his full Shrinking and it still may not.

This is effectively a Side Effect on his maximum Shrinking but since it doesn't automatically take effect, we need a novel solution. Pairing that 3-Real Point Power with a Limitation on his Shrinking is the best compromise I can come up with without new RAW-Conditional Side Effect. 

And again, for an NPC, this is a plot device that happens when the GM wants to tell that story. It has no effect otherwise so I wouldn't write it up and advise other GM's not to do so either.  It can only constrict your story telling choices with randomness when you need a set outcome for the story to work.

But do you have a horn and hat? Go all in!

On 2/22/2024 at 7:29 PM, LoneWolf said:

I have to disagree about the need to create a power for an NPC.  For the most part an NPC should still be written up as completely as can be.  Having what a NPC can and cannot do clearly defined makes the game run smoother.  It is also important if the character is going to be a recurring advisory.  When the NPC’s power radically changes with every encounter it makes the players upset. It also makes things harder when a player tries to counter something when it is not written up.  For example, if a character is hit with an NND with an odd defense having that listed on the character sheet can avoid arguments.  

 

As was pointed out earlier in the thread this is not a power under the control of the character.  This is a rare unwanted side effect of using his shrinking.  It is not something the character should be paying for. 
 

Yes, this Power as stated is not something that works to the PC's advantage currently, but they should still pay for it. The options I gave both cost 3 Real Points, not crippling.

If this is going to be a recurring theme, then that means there will be multiple plots around the alternate dimension. By paying for it initially, the PC can buy down the Limitations with experience and learn to travel back and forth freely. The alternate world could become a place for a secret base, a setting for a star-crossed romance, am origin for a PC nemesis or even a full-blown sub-campaign with a war/rebellion theme.

Making the PC pay for this should at the very least, increase PC buy-in if the GM wants to do any of these.

They can't even pretend that they are hard to make either. The entire plot of the first MCU Spider-Man was about preventing the theft of cutting-edge technology with the main prize being a cargo plane full of arc reactors. If Vulture could have gotten away with just one crate, he could have bought a small country.

Yes, tech advances are one of the problems I have with the MCU as a setting. I can deal with Vibranium being relatively rare, but Pym is right to keep tight control of those Pym particles and Stark's arc reactor would completely change the world all on its own.  It completely vaults us past all our existing energy sources. A single Iron Man armor can lift a payload of tons on its own. Age of Ultron showed that scaling it up to large platforms was easily possible. It would enable orbital elevators, orbital rings and then on to asteroid mining and Gundam style space colonies. 

3 hours ago, Hugh Neilson said:

The defenses are the key, in my view.  If these characters are tossing around, and soaking up, 12 - 18d6 Normal damage routinely, I'd expect that they have defenses in the 30s or higher.  A 15d6 Normal attack averages 52.5 STUN.

 

Normal defenses of 30 will block all BOD from a terminal velocity fall.  BOD from a 20d6 Normal attack is not going to get past those defenses, so there is nothing to double from a head shot.

 

Making the doppelgangers identical and then adding all the advantages of automatons means that they are massively more powerful than the heros, especially defensively.  If they are identical copies (not automatons) and can be knocked out, then the heroes will have to knock them out, then carefully and meticulously bypass their defenses to murder the doppelgangers.

 

Forcing the heroes to demonstrate their heroism by diligently slaughtering their foes seems a little odd.

 

We had a Supers game with an alternate earth scenario some years back, and realized very early on that we would eventually be fighting ourselves.  By the time that happened, it was a bit of a cakewalk as we knew the best tactics as a team to take down an identical team.

Hugh's post just doubles down on my original question. Normally, the Takes No Stun Power triples the cost of Resistant PD/ED. Will the doppelgangers have full value, or will they be reduced? This is going to be the biggest factor in determining strategy.