bigdamnhero

Definitely second Widening Gyre. There's another steampunk RPG called Uber Steampunk by Steve Metze (who did Ultimate Metamorph) which some great stuff that would be easy to convert to Hero. I'll also recommend the animated film April and the Exrtaordinary World. Good silly fun, a little less over-the-top than Girl Genius. (Not saying over the top is bad; just a different flavor.)

Sounds like it. If you just want him to be able to Abort his next action to raise one, that's not a problem. If you want him to be able to raise one and still do something else (move/attack/etc) then you might want to think about Triggered.

I might suggest "The Magicians Hero" but then you'd have to include extensive rules for kinky sex and drug/alcohol abuse. Not to mention a rotating Complication for "Who's Got The Idiot Ball This Week?" Yeah, think I'll pass.

I'm confused. You want a character to be able to whip up whatever powerful device they need on sort notice, but you don't want to have to pay points for it? You are talking about a supers game, right? Then you pay points for stuff - "I built something" is just the sfx for "I now have this Power." That's typically modeled with a VPP, add Modifiers to taste. BTW with a VPP, you don't necessarily have to keep every one-off invention listed on the character in perpetuity. A lot of players & GMs prefer to have at least some common/typical slots built in advance to speed up play, but that's just a logistical concern. The whole point of a VPP is to let you make up whatever power you need without having to re-spend new points every single time. So I don't understand how that doesn't accomplish what you're trying to do? So if I understand correctly, you're defining "gadgeteering" as something that happens in the field; whereas "kit-bashing" is something that only happens in a lab? OK, so then you do buy it with "Only in a Lab," "Takes Minutes/Hours to Change," "Requires Inventor Roll" or whatever other Limitations you feel are appropriate. Congratulations, that's going to drop the cost considerably. [shrug] Then call it a "Kit-Bashing Pool" or whatever you like. Or if it's only a once-in-awhile thing, you have Inventor Skill and Power Skill. (IMO the latter is more appropriate for Heroic games where characters don't pay points for equipment, but YMMV.) Honestly, I'm genuinely lost here. Trying to help, but I'm still not clear exactly what you're trying to do that you feel can't be done with the examples people have listed. It sounds to me like maybe you've always seen VPPs played a certain way, but that's not the only way to do it. Maybe you could give us some specific examples of what you want your character to be able to do that can't be done with the different models folks have already posted? Can you think of a specific game instance where you wanted to do X but "the rules didn't let you?"

Any of the above, personally. But I kindof have a hankering for urban fantasy at the moment; something that's not WoD or Dresden.

Yeah, I could've written almost this exact post in 1985, and every game day since. I play other systems, and have occasionally even run other systems, but Hero is always my first choice.

I've always handled this with a Gadget VPP. Just don't throw on the Limitations for "Can Only Be Changed In A Lab" and so forth. Easy. I've literally seen dozens if not hundreds of characters with that build. What about the VPP rules doesn't work for what you're trying to do?

The only time I tried to run a horror game it quickly morphed into more of an urban fantasy/monster hunting game, which turned out to be much better suited to the group. We did use some Stress rules, which were based on the PRE Attack rules. Essentially, the environment had a constant & cumulative PRE Attack based on how weird/scary things were getting. The players called it "the Weird-Shit-O-Meter." For the PCs we treated it mostly as a roleplaying aid; the players were pretty good about deciding how their characters would react based on the current Stress Level, so I never felt the need to enforce it mechanically. For PCs it was a little more mechanical but still had a fair amount of handwavium. In theory at high enough levels it was supposed to induce short/long-term Psych Lims, but I never really pushed that side of it. If you want something more solid, treating it as a Cumulative Transform vs mind/spirit sounds like a good mechanical way to handle it and allows you to adjust the seriousness of various attacks based on how much effect they're having.

In the Edge Of Empire rules, there's a Talent in the Smuggler/Scoundrel tree that lets you add your Cunning score to damage rolls. Obviously Han took that feat. Plus Chewie has that ridiculously overpowered crossbow thingie that normal humans can't use except when it's funny.

April and the Extraordinary World, a French animated steampunk film. Wonderfully inventive, silly and fun.

Steve's response:

Thanks for the warning.

Reminds me once again I need to thank my players for being more interested in creating good characters & telling a story than in showing off their munchkin-fu. My closest-thing-to-a-problem is I have one player who likes to take Complications that are extremely unlikely to come up in play. And even there I don't think he's doing it to be munchkiney, he just has a hard time coming up with valid Comps, so he leaves it to me to figure out a way to work them in. But I can't remember the last time I had to veto a power/build. Clearly I am blessed.

I did Ask Steve what the baseline assumption is in RAW, tho I suspect the answer will have a higher-than-normal dose of "it depends, ask your GM." Like I said, I can argue both sides of the question myself. Giving players an attack "for free" because some monsters are allergic to it does potentially open the door to munchkinism. But as a GM, I'm pretty sure I can reign that in if needed. OTOH forcing players to pay points for something that is only an "attack" because someone else has a Susceptibility to it can lead to some really absurd extreme cases, like having to pay points for a water bottle. Do I need to pay points for my costume because some monster somewhere out there might be allergic to spandex? My wife is allergic to gluten - do I need to pay for this slice of toast? Never mind environmental factors like "allergic to sunlight." It just seems like the more I think about it the sillier it seems.

[holds up water bottle] Yep. Tho I recognize I'm the exception. OTOH, if we regularly ran into the stupid allergic-to-water aliens from Signs, I bet a lot more people would carry them. Yep and yep. But again, that's just me. I get thirsty. Actually unless you know where the shut-off valve is cutting off a water main isn't as simple as cutting power lines. But I get your point - I'm just nitpicking. Totally fair point. Even with our Radio Shack rule (mentioned above) if you didn't pay points for it, it's not guaranteed.

This is based on a longer discussion in this thread. I hesitated to ask it here because I recognize it gets heavily into GM Subjectivity Territory. But I think it would be helpful to get a sense of what RAW assumes as a baseline. Say a character ("the target") has a Susceptibility to a very common substance that is normally harmless, like water. Another character ("the attacker") learning of this Susceptibility, wants to start carrying a squirt gun. Or even something more basic like a thermos of water. Assuming a superheroic game where everyone pays points for everything, does RAW generally assume: A. The attacker must pay points for the water, based on how much damage it can do to the target, with a Limitation for "Only against targets with appropriate Susceptibility" or B. The attacker does not need to pay points for the water because it normally has no significant in-game effect. The "points" have been paid for by the target in taking the Complication. or C. something else? Thanks.

Even for something as common as water? I mean, I recognize in this case we're talking about holy water which is a less common substance; but that should be reflected in the cost of the Susceptibility. Take the "holy" out of the equation: if I have an NPC who's Susceptible to plain-old water, are you really going to make characters pay points for a squirt gun?

Spence's post (that I was responding to) was about introducing new players. Sorry if I didn't make that clear in my reply.

My approach to this problem is to say "Describe your character to me in narrative, non-mechanical terms" and then build it for them. More work for me of course, but I actually like building Hero character, so it's all good.

I was thinking about this, but the damage from Susceptibilities is already NND, right? So even if I made someone pay for the attack, I think they should get the AVLD/NND for free. Exactly right. And within that context, buying it as an attack power seems to fit the best in terms of balancing point allocation. But I am also interested in the broader question of whether an attacker should have to pay points for a non-damaging "attack" that only works if someone happens to have the right damages Susceptibility, or whether the points are "paid" by the target through their Susceptibility. I get the concept of "you get what you pay for" normally; but making someone pay points for a perfectly mundane substance that normally has no/little in-game effect seems to defeat the point of the target getting points for taking that Complication. Different matter for Vulnerabilities, of course, which only amplify the effect of an existing attack. But we're talking about something that is completely harmless unless the target has that specific Susceptibility. Why should I have to pay points for someone else's Complication? Of course as noted, this is a Heroic game where the characters don't normally pay points for "normal" equipment. And it's in a VPP, so the net cost to the character is zero either way. But it's an interesting question.

6e1 p290 discusses using Dispel to banish a Summoned being. Having to overcome the AP of the Summon (which is based partly on the being's point total) is clear enough. But when building the Dispel itself, is listing "Dispel Summon" sufficient to make the power work against any type of Summoned creature? Basically I'm trying to figure out if "Vs. Any Summoned Creature" is a Variable Advantage, or if that's the baseline and "Only Works Against [specific Type]" would be a Limitation? Subject to standard "Unless the GM rules otherwise..." disclaimers of course.

In our home game we have a rule we call the Radio Shack exception: if it's something you can buy cheaply & easily at any retail outlet, and it's not a weapon, you don't have to pay points for it. I would probably allow this under that exception, since it doesn't actually inflict damage under normal circumstances.

That matches what I remember from the couple of times I played. But dealing with Autofire and damage from individual balls seems like it might be more trouble than it's worth here, and I would like the character to have at least the possibility of running out of ammo at some point in less than 12 Turns. So I'm thinking I might abstract 1 "Charge" as equal to "1 second of peppering the target with as many balls as you can" rather than 1 Charge = 1 ball. So then the number of Charges is really based on the number of targets they can hose down before running out of ammo. Call it 10-ish balls per "peppering" and that works out to maybe 20 Charges?

I like all the different ideas - thanks gang! I *am* the GM, so getting GM approval isn't the problem. And this is for a convention game. So while roleplaying convincing a priest to bless another batch of holy water would be funny in an ongoing campaign, it's not going to come up in a one-shot. FWIW: I have been hit with paintballs on the skin. They sting a little, but honestly even 1d6 Normal is pushing it. (Unless they've gotten a lot more powerful since the last time I played.) Re putting a Naked Advantage in a VPP: fair point, tho I wouldn't have a problem with approving it in this case. Since the item is going in a VPP either way, the question isn't really how much it costs the character, but how much other gear she's not able to carry if she's carrying it. (The VPP can only be swapped out back at base.) All I'm really looking for is to make the player choose "If I take this, then I can't take that." So thematically, it feels like maybe it should take up slightly-less space as a "normal" gun? I think Grailknight's approach is going to work best for this particular game. In an ongoing game, I might feel differently - maybe treat it as a roleplaying point rather than a game element, and let Encumbrance determine how much she can carry? But I think this will work close-enough for a one-off. Thanks again!

Absolutely right, and that's what I meant to say. Add that to a long list of tropes that work great in comics but not in RPGs. Totally valid point. Tho one thing that can help mitigate this: remember that a character who's at less than -10 STUN is technically conscious, but just can't act. RAW even says he may still be in his feet, just woozy and trying to shake off that last shot. So if you describe it that way, with the villain barely on his feet or maybe on his hands and knees trying to stand back up, then it feels less out of genre for a hero give him the "And STAY Down!" finishing move. Even beyond that, I think some GMs feel obligated to follow the letter of the rules whether it makes narrative sense or not. I think it's the latent wargaming gene that comes pre-instaled in a lot of gamers. As per above, I would add "...unless it makes narrative sense to do it differently" but basically yeah these are good rules.