Ockham's Spoon

Re: He's right over... Where'd He Go! Well what I was going to contribute is almost exactly what Sean said here, so you can just reread what he put here. You da man Sean.

Re: A variant of standard effect damage The second approach you describe seems perfectly reasonable to me, although there are those that would argue that rolling massive quantities of dice is part of the fun. To each their own. The first method you describe, in which if you roll exactly what you need to hit you do minimum damage, does have a drawback. That is most of the time you will need somewhere in the range of 10 to 12 to hit. Statistically speaking it is much easier to roll a middling number than an extreme, like the 3 you would need to get maximum damage (darn that bell curve). Consequently you will have lots of minimum damage rolls compared to the number of maximum damage rolls under this system. If you like that, great. Otherwise, I would go with the second method to reduce the number of dice. ______________________________________________________________ "Some people spread joy wherever they go. Others, whenever they go." - Oscar Wilde

Re: Balance versus flavour This is the constant challenge for the GM: make sure everyone has fun despite wildly varying abilities. I try (and let me emphasize "try") to create obstacles that are tailored to each characters power set. For instance, your burly barbarian who can dish out a lot of damage gets to shine against the heavily armored golem because he is the only one who can easily exceed its defenses. Meanwhile, the archer, who can't do as much damage but is extremely accurate takes out Smaug the Dragon because he is the only one who can hit the wyrm's vulnerable spot. Then your thief defeats the necromancer not by killing him directly, but by swiping the magic gem that controls the undead army. And maybe your group wizard with the firebolt spell is the only one of the group that can affect the desolid wraiths that are attacking the party. The same is true for noncombat stuff; try to make sure that everyone gets to use a Knowledge Skill or Enhanced Sense or something to further the plot so that everyone gets to shine sometime. It is kind of like making sure character Disads come into play; you also have to make sure the powers they got with those points are utilized too. __________________________________________________________ Some people spread joy wherever they go. Others, whenever they go. - Oscar Wilde

Re: Going out with a bang I joined a fantasy-setting game in mid-story, so I asked what kind of characters the party was lacking. HEALERS was the unanimous reply. I quickly discovered why, as it was about the most lethal campaign I have ever played in (most players were on their second or third character by the time I joined). Well the cleric I made basically did nothing but keep the combat monsters that composed the rest of the group from dropping like flies, which was all very well and fine, but in the combat intensive campaign, it got a bit boring. So I basically had the cleric push his healing abilities to the point that it killed him. The rest of the players were horrified that their healer just died, but the GM thought that the act was so selfless and in keeping with the cleric's character, that he had the cleric's deity ressurect him on the spot. Can't win for losing. _______________________________________________________ Drained and blue I bleed for you You think its funny But you're drowning in it too - Alice in Chains

Re: How to model Trampoline Riccochet Okay, I'll buy that. For a passive trampoline the DS is certainly the better way to go. If the player wants an active manuever (which was my take on it), the power should require some kind of action. Once again I guess we have to start with the effect desired and go from there. _________________________________________________________ "Oh ouch! She missed the pool. That will affect her score." - Crow

Re: How to model Trampoline Riccochet Ah, but I am not trying to do 3 separate things with one power. The T-port doesn't trigger without a successful block. The block stops the damage, and hence prevents any KB. Then the T-port goes off which sends the attacker in the opposite direction (with the handwaving allowed). This is no different than building a super riposte or counter-strike ability by creating a Damage Shield that only goes off when a block is successfully performed. You have a good point about having to hit with the T-port UAA; something I overlooked. I am not sure you could make it a Damage Shield because I don't recall if a Damage Shield will affect an attacker who has been blocked. But you could make it AoE Hex (same cost as DS and it is easy to hit a hex). Or throw a few levels on it, that combined with the fact the attacker's DCV will be penalized for the move-through/by should make it pretty easy to hit. Does that seem more reasonable, or does the handwaving just make this too distasteful a build? ___________________________________________________________ If flesh could crawl My skin would fall Right off my bones And run away from here - Garbage

Re: How to model Trampoline Riccochet Well let me tackle several points here: My initial problem with the Knockback approach is that you don't throw the opponent as far as he should go necessarily. You essentially have to do twice as much KB as incoming velocity, half of that to reduce his velocity to zero and the other half to duplicate that velocity but going in the other direction. For low velocities that isn't a problem, but for high velocities it could fall apart. Also, the elastic character takes damage from the attack at the same time he is throwing the attacker away with the Damage Shield, which doesn't represent the "trampoline manuever" properly to me. Admittedly the T-port won't stop a baseball bat, but I built this as a trampoline manuever, not a design for a rubber body. The T-port should be triggered a successful block manuever (which would represent the character grabbing anchor points and catching the attacker). That would remove Sean's metaphysical problem and keep this from being abusive. In the end, I admit the T-port approach requires a little handwaving, but I still think it is a valid build. But I also still like the martial throw better. I defend the T-port only as my brainchild and because this is a good discussion. ____________________________________________________________ "The fiction in her family was that she was never nice. I'd say she was very, I just did not see the price." - S. Vega

Re: Adaptive Defense? The VPP is probably the easiest way to go, but just brainstorming here you could also buy Healing to Any One CHA, 0 END, Triggered when hit by any attack for the second or later time. Of course the character could still be stunned unless you allow Healing to unstun too (Sean Waters started a thread recently on that topic). _______________________________________________________ "Why follow me to higher ground, lost as you swear I am." - Ed Roland

Re: Balanced Opposition In my experience, if you have four heroes against four villains in a straight fight where all the point totals are about equal, the heroes will almost always win, probably because the GM (or this GM at least) can't operate four characters as efficiently as the players can individually operate their own characters. To even the odds, make the villains with attacks the heroes are vulnerable to, or make them particularly resistant to one or more of the heroes' attacks. Or add and extra villain or two. Or make the battlefield one that favors the villains' powers over the heroes. Or throw in goons. Or make the heroes spend time rescuing normals. You get the idea. Against a single big bad guy, make sure the villain has good defenses (Damage Reduction is especially useful here), and isn't particularly vulnerable to any one hero's attack (don't give him 50 PD/ED Armor and then forget Mental Defense when one hero has a good EGO attack). And usually it helps to make the master villain with a high SPD so he can more nearly match the heroes action for action, or you can give him goons or traps or something to slow the heroes down. __________________________________________________________ "Why follow me to higher ground, lost as you swear I am?" - Ed Roland

Re: How to model Trampoline Riccochet Well technically you are right, the attacker should be able to stop on a dime. But realistically for someone with Running that would only be true if they are still in contact with the ground, which after the T-port they would not be. For the sake of the SFX I would let them keep their velocity. Consider a similar classic comic book manuever, where the defender dodges and the attacker crashes into the wall behind him. Strictly speaking at the end of the attackers full move they should be able to stop, but for a colorful move like that I would have their momentum carry them forward that extra hex into the wall. Which isn't to say the Knockback method isn't a good (or better even) way to model it, but I think the T-port is still valid and reasonable. As for the defense, it would be whatever disrupted the elastic character's hold on the anchor points, like maybe a Damage Shield that would stun him. Since there is a STR roll involved, you could apply a penalty for the velocity (-1 per v/3) and size/density (-1 per level of Growth/Density Increase) of the attacker, which could suffice. ________________________________________________________ "Why follow me to higher ground, lost as you swear I am?" - Ed Roland

Re: How to model Trampoline Riccochet Retaining velocity is just the way T-port normally works. You don't need "Moves through intervening space" because you aren't actually teleporting the attacker anywhere, you are just turning him around 180°. His own velocity keeps him moving, just in the opposite direction. This makes it different from the martial throw because the throw puts the attacker on the ground in the same PHA is it performed. The T-port construct sends them flying through the air, to land in their next PHA. The throw will probably do more damage, but the T-port will keep them out of the action for that extra PHA. __________________________________________________________ "Oh ouch! She missed the pool! That will affect her score." - Crow

Re: Spending END Thanks for the clarification. That does make the cost of END Reserve rather more suspect though as Sean originally mentioned. And as Sean originally mentioned, the value of END to Activate a power depends on how much END is required and whether it is justifiable (I would let a shapeshifter create Armor with this power, but I wouldn't let Flame-Boy's 0 END Force Field take this limitation). For comparison, I could buy Side Effect 6d6 Drain vs. END whenever power is turned on at -½ limitation. To scale it to -¼ limitation make it 3d6 END with Standard Effect of 10 END. So a -¼ limitation is comparable for a power with 100 active points, but not so at lower levels. This is particularly an issue for active point powers where the character only has to spend a few END to get the power on and then that is it. How much of a limitation is having to spend 5 END to turn on your defenses and enhanced senses in PHA 12 right before you get a recovery? To say nothing of the situation where the character is powered up in advance. Really the limitation only comes into play if the character is knocked out and has no END to speak of when he comes around. There is no smaller limitation than -¼ in HERO (thankfully) so the GM could just disallow END to Activate or require it to cost more than normal END to make the limitation more reasonable. _________________________________________________________ This space for rent

Re: How to model Trampoline Riccochet Another way to do it (and isn't there always another way in Hero?) would be to buy a Triggered Teleport UAA with the ability to change orientation, only to change orientation, Req. STR roll (to hold onto the anchor points). The trigger would be the successful block of a move-through. This would essentially send the attacker flying off at his original velocity in some other direction (presumably with a slight arc into the air or else he is just running along the ground and can stop himself with no difficulty). That said, I think I like the martial throw idea better. _____________________________________________________________ There are only two infinite things, the universe and stupidity. And I am not all that sure about the universe. - Albert Einstein

Re: Spending END Say what? I thought Drain worked vs. the active points in power or CHA. That is how I have always played it and it seemed like a balanced approach. Did I miss something? Having your END after being KO'd is definitely worth a lot, you are right there. I have had characters buy extra REC only useable when unconscious so that when they come around they are in fighting condition (with justification of course; one such character was an android and another could manipulate time). ______________________________________________________ Drained and blue I bleed for you You think its funny But you're drowning in it too. - Alice in Chains

Re: Spending END If you want to mirror the comic book characters getting tired, just tell the characters that they can't have Reduced END unless they can justify it in the concept of the character. GMs have final rule on all character builds, and if you want that flavor, enforce it. END Reserve is really useful for modeling some character concepts (like the power suit guy), but I could certainly see a good argument for making the END and REC cost the same or slightly less than regular END and REC. Slightly less because you can't push powers in an END Reserve and because only certain powers have access to it (although maybe the latter should be a limitation on the power not the END Reserve). The biggest drawback for characters running on END Reserves is the Drain. Sure the END is cheap to buy, but it is ridiculously easy to wipe out a END Reserve with even a low level Drain. This happened once to my players and I have not seen an END Reserve since. ____________________________________________________________ Drained and blue I bleed for you You think its funny But you're drowning in it too. - Alice in Chains

Re: Feints

Re: Crossfire? I am not familiar with the Sucker manuever, but that sounds like what you want. If not, you might try modeling it as "grab and block" manuever, the exception being the "grab" doesn't actually restrain anybody and would be a DEX vs. DEX roll instead of STR vs. STR. If you make a good "DEX grab" then you have successfully interposed yourself between your target and someone else attacking you. Then you can "block" with the target of the DEX grab (OCV vs. OCV roll), the SFX being you duck out of the way at the last instant and the poor shmuck you set up gets hit instead of you. If you blow the block roll, then you weren't fast enough or you timed it wrong and get hit yourself. To be really good at this manuever, either have a high DEX or buy levels with it. Lots of supers have much higher DEX than the mooks this would typically be used on, so you wouldn't need too many levels to make it reasonably effective. ______________________________________________________ Drained and blue I bleed for you You think its funny But you're drowning in it too. - Alice in Chain

Re: Not-Quite-So-Deadly-As-You-Might-Suspect Blow There are several ways to model the "killing blow" ability, it just depends on what you want it to do. In most cases, when the character's attack is always a KA, and probably the same weapon at that, the easiest way to do it is buy +1d6 KA. But if you want a more flexible solution try one of these: The multipower mentioned above; nuff said. Martial Arts package (obviously) with the appropriate weapon familiarity. The character is well trained and so can do extra damage. The drawback is that you cannot more than double the damage of your weapon. Personally I think that is more realistic anyway, and should probably be applied to the Killing Blow ability too. Extra OCV (5 point levels) with the limitation Only to increase Damage Class (-½). To match the 1d6 KA from the Killing Blow ability, you need to spend 20 points (+6 levels OCV to get +3 DC) instead of 15, but you can use it with any attack, although again it can only double the DC of a given weapon. This would represent being able to strike vital areas with great accuracy. 5d6 Aid to any 1 attack power (+¼), Standard Effect +15 points. This is really expensive comparatively (62 points), but lets you more than double a weapon's DC. It also requires an action to set up, and you might want to tack on some limitations to make it less pricey. This would be something like electrically or magically charging a weapon, hypervelocity attacks, superheating the weapons, etc. 15 pt Variable Power Pool, Cosmic, only to improve attack powers (-1). Total cost here is 25 points and will not only let you boost damage beyond the doubling limit, but it can also make attacks Armor Piercing, Autofire, etc., and possibly +3 OCV if the GM is lenient. Of course if the GM isn't wild about VPPs, then you have to go with the Aid. I have played with this build as a super version of the Power Skill, and it worked pretty nicely. One of the beauties of the Hero system, so may ways to do things

Re: Healing You make an excellent point about the baseline cost and the affect that has on power frameworks. Maybe that is why they split Aid up into standard Aid and Succor. Personally I still like lumping them all together, but maybe that is just me. Of course I haven't done exhaustive analysis on it either, I might think differently if I had. __________________________________________________________ Drained and blue I bleed for you You think its funny But you're drowning in it too - Alice in Chains

Re: Healing Well you are right, but it took a lot more damage to stun the 20 CON person in the first place. My thought is that if you want to reverse the effect of the stunning, you need to do an equivalent amount of healing, which just happens to be greater in the case of the 20 CON person. If you prefer, you could say that if you heal enough STN to drop the total amount of damage below the CON of the target then it is as if their CON was never exceeded in the first place. But that will take a lot less healing to accomplish; probably only a couple d6 for most cases in my experience. Maybe that is a better way to go since it would allow tactical use of a low level Healing power that wouldn't get as much use otherwise. But it also makes it easier to make an AoE Healing that could simultaneously unstun several comrades. That could dramatically shift the outcome of a combat, especially a surprise attack (although this is a pretty specific instance and may not be worth worrying about). Okay Lucius, as I ponder while writing I think you are right, and the second approach is better. The ability to unstun is already limited by the need for timing, so requiring a large number of dice is probably unnecessary. ____________________________________________________________ Drained and blue I bleed for you You think its funny But you're drowning in it too. - Alice in Chains

Re: Detect Minds and Barriers If you want to build N-ray vision you have to define something that you can't see through, I think it only reasonable that the player do the same with an equivalent mental power. Or else make them buy Clairsentience. If you want to keep this from being abusive, let them target the person from behind a wall, but unless they have an Indirect attack they can't actually hurt the person. Unless they make a Mind Scan roll. Isn't that what Mind Scan is for after all? ________________________________________________ Drained and blue I bleed for you You think its funny But you're drowning in it too. - Alice in Chains

Re: Healing I would allow Healing to unstun someone as a freebie, but only if the amount of STN healed exceeded the target's CON; essentially just the reverse of stunning, just like Healing is the reverse of taking the STN in the first place. I am all for combining Aid and Healing into one power and then adding limitations or advantages to suit. The two powers are so close already as to be almost redundant which makes them confusing and opens up questions as to which is overpriced. I think I would build the default power like the current Succor. To have it fade instead of shut off instantly when the END stops, add a +½ advantage; but to have it fade 5pts/turn notice that you have to move it two steps down the time chart (from 1 PHA to 1 turn) so to replicate the current Aid would be a total of +1 Advantage. To create healing, you add +1 Advantage "Restored values do not fade". This would be offset somewhat by -½ limitation "only to restore lost values". (Yes I think Healing as currently written is a tad too expensive.) You also notice that with this set up you could build an Aid that would supercharge you and heal you at the same time, although the extra points will ultimately fade of course. There is no nice way to do that right now. I would also get rid of the ability to boost the max number of points. That just cries out for abuse. If you want to boost something by 30 points, you have to buy at least 5d6. If you want a gradual effect, then take that as a limitation. Finally, while I am on the soapbox, you can build Regeneration with the healing options listed above, but add 0 END, Continuous, and Persistant (did I miss any?). This will give you a somewhat cheaper Regen build than current rules because the base cost per d6 is 5 instead of 10. (Yes, I think Regen is a bit overpriced too), and it will be consistent with the other Aid/Healing type abilities. Well that's my 2 cents (with a $2 tip even). ____________________________________________________________ "Why follow me to higher ground, lost as you swear I am?" - Ed Roland

Re: Autofire Find Weakness I don't think I would allow an Autofire Find Weakness myself, but then I can't see any rationale for it. Obviously you do or you wouldn't be considering it. What SFX are you trying to build here that you would come up with this power?

Re: Incantations Usable By Other.... I agree with the -1 NCC on Capt. Generic. But Abdadama is a trickier case, because he might have team-mates that would use his summon power to the team's advantage. Sure Abdadama might not be able to summon a dragon to help them fight their foe, but who cares if one of his team-mates can do it for him? It is like the guy with powers that only work in high magnetic fields, but conveniently his buddy generates high magnetic fields. Suddenly that limitation is worth a lot less. _______________________________________________________ Drained and blue I bleed for you You think its funny But you're drowning in it too - Alice in Chains

Re: Links to high-lim Powers I think this depends on what you want your precog power to do. If you want to consciously look into the future so you can protect yourself from ambush, avoid potential pitfalls, or make a killing in the stock market, then you want Clairsentience with the Precog adder. If you want a similar effect, but unconscious or vague, then go with Danger Sense. If you want an unconscious level of precog that has the effect of giving you lightning fast reflexes, etc, then buy all the separate powers; precog is just the SFX. You should not get any link bonus for the separate powers because they aren't really "linked"; they don't go off together when you attack or anything, it is just SFX. If someone Drains your precog abilities (say a drugged dart with the effect of Drain vs All (+2) mental powers) then you lose them. I don't see this as any different from Pyroboy getting hit by Dr. McQuark's Ultra-fire extinguisher and losing all his flame powers, because that is just the SFX. The only thing you have to be careful of is when you buy CHA as part of a special effect, be sure both player and GM have an understanding of what the "base" CHA are so if you lose all your precog DEX you know what your "normal" DEX is. ________________________________________________________ Drained and blue I bleed for you You think its funny But you're drowning in it too - Alice in Chains