SCUBA Hero

9 hours ago, Ninja-Bear said:

The dwarves loved the Noldor because the Noldor loved to work with metal. The thing is the dwarves are renowned for their working of metal. 
 

(Did I mention that I had an evil group called the Cult of the Anvil that was jealous of any dwarven techniques that were shared to non-dwarves?)

 

in a world with stereotypical dwarves I would see mining would be like this. Dwarves excel at mining and rather enjoy it. They are the best at reading the land so to speak and take their time to build incredibly sound structures. By comparison humans are rank amateurs. Human can and do mine but not as beautifully as dwarves and don’t have the experience in building or patience either.

I like the Cult of the Anvil.  Makes perfect sense.  "You taught one of the Hidden Mysteries to a *human*?  You know the penalty... [sound of steel sliding out of a scabbard]"

In Harn, the Khuzdul (Dwarves) are the master masons.  Sure Humans build keeps and castles, but... want round towers instead of square?  Want the best quality and defenses?  Hire a Khuzdul to oversee the project.  (They have a double-tongue-and-groove technique that makes the strongest known stone wall.)

19 hours ago, Hugh Neilson said:

I have never liked the concept that a character with 20 meters of running and 30 meters of flight cannot run 5 meters and then fly for at least 5 more meters as a half move.  Not sure "usable as another form of movement" solves that, although it would mean the character is not turning one power off to turn another on.. 

4 hours ago, unclevlad said:

It's perfectly legal...unless you sold back all your base running to shave the points, and everything's in fixed slots in a multi, or in a VPP where you're not trying to support them both.  But yes, I get your point.  Another one would be running and leaping combinations.  They either get fairly expensive, or you get that hard divide in place.

No, it isn't.  6E2, 24: "Each Phase a character may move any portion of his meters of movement with a particular mode of movement." (Bolding is mine.)  Although I do agree with Hugh that I don't like the concept, and of course a GM can allow the combo... but it's not legal RAW.

That works too.  But it's definitely not a half-Phase attack, at least at longer ranges (98/115mph = 44/51 meters per Segment), it's remotely controlled, and there's a physical structure that can be damaged or destroyed.  Once you add Limitations to reflect those things, IMO it's easier to do a vehicle write-up.  But that's just my preference.

Freelance Wealth Redistribution Specialist.

(Shout out to Order of the Stick)

Saw some articles indicating that the US is supplying Switchblade kamikaze drones to Ukraine:

AeroVironment Switchblade - Wikipedia

The 300 has a warhead equivalent to a 40mm grenade.  The 600 has an anti-tank warhead comparable to a Javelin ATGM.

So throw those values in, write up a vehicle with the stated speed/range characteristics and guidance systems, maybe up the DCV to represent how difficult it is to intercept, and you've got a HERO System writeup! 😃

Adding OAF brings the Real Cost to within 1 point - 16 for Continuing Charges and 17 for Time Limit.  Interesting.  Although the AP costs are different - 45 for CC and 60 for TL.

So is this a reaction to an attack on the character, or in addition to another attack the character makes?  (I'm not familiar with WoW)

If the former, Trigger.

If the latter, just use Multiple Attack or Combined Attack.

Good point!  I missed OAF on both builds.

Did the comparisons:

Temporary Big Sword:  Killing Attack - Hand-To-Hand 2d6 (2d6+1 w/STR), Constant (+1/2) (45 Active Points); 2 Continuing Charges lasting 5 Minutes each (-1/2), Conditional Power Power does not work in Uncommon Circumstances (Must Roll To Hit For Every Attack; -1/4)  26

Temporary Big Sword: Killing Attack - Hand-To-Hand 2d6 (2d6+1 w/STR), Time Limit (5 Minutes; +1) (60 Active Points); 2 Charges (-1 1/2)  24

So Constant has a lower AP cost but (slightly) higher Real point cost than Time Limit.  I conclude that either works.  Would probably default to Time Limit, except for the caveat "Time Limit is generally intended for nonattack abilities" 🤔

Anyone else want to weigh in?

On 3/15/2022 at 9:39 AM, Hugh Neilson said:

 

If Figured provided good guidance for half or a third of Figured, I submit that they did not provide good guidance. From 1e, we built characters based on the example characters in the book, not any specific build guidance

You make a good point. 👍  I'm amending my previous claim:

Figureds provide good guidance for STUN, END, and REC.  DEX provides good guidance for OCV and DCV.  Not so much for PD, ED, and SPD.

As evidence, look at the five 6E Champions characters (only changes from base Figureds are listed, as +/- pips [not CPs]).

STUN: Defender +6, Kinetic +1, Sapphire +6, Witchcraft +6

END: Defender -10, Kinetic +4, Sapphire +14, Witchcraft -1

REC: Defender +1, Ironclad +2, Witchcraft +2

OCV: Ironclad +1

DCV: Witchcraft +1

And while I applaud Ironclad having more than base OCV (he’s a skilled combatant), why not *decrease* DCV?  His combat MO is to suck up damage, not avoid getting hit.

8 hours ago, Hugh Neilson said:

Why do Supers need to have better DEX rolls if DEX has nothing to do with their power suite?  A "really slow" Brick is not logically twice as agile as an average person (whether we use 8 or 10 as "average").

 

I am fine with an 8-10 STR Super.  INT or EGO of 8 - 10?  Sure. BOD of 8-10?  Why not? CON?  Better have enough to resist Stunning.  Supers get a lot of strenuous exercise, so I can accept that they have higher CON across the board. PRE?  Well, you need something to defend against PRE attacks, anyway. Putting on a spandex suit and running off to fight crime probably requires some chutzpah, so whether we define that self-confidence as PRE or EGO to defend against typical PRE attacks, most Supers likely have some. So why is a "no more agile than the average dude" Super inconceivable?

I like this concept!  The Thing has high OCV (DCV somewhat, but not as much, as his MO is to absorb damage, not avoid it) because he's a skilled combatant, not because he's super-agile.  Walk across a balance beam?  Not so much...

Sapient Resources.  Or Sophont Resources.

I like it!  So the Temporal Ghosts give him the Area Of Effect.

Since he can't use the power very often, I suggest upping the Increased Endurance and/or adding Charges.

I don't see Trigger or Transdimensional as being better ways to write up the effect you want.

2 hours ago, DShomshak said:

Quote: “Yeah, last year I was for Law, too, but this year Chaos is paying better. Hey, I got kids to feed, y’know?”

Heh.  "I was for Law before I was against it." 😆

[I would *really* like to play in one of your games...]

1 hour ago, L. Marcus said:

Time Limit is what I'd go with, say for one minute on two Charges. Fairly straightforward, isn't it? 6E1, p. 346 has a HKA as an example; is the recommendation to not allow it from CC, or ... ?

The recommendation is from the same page (6E1, 346)! 

I need to do some comparisons on Time Limit and Constant... and I will... but not tonight.

Thanks for the response. 👍

No takers?

I'm thinking add Constant (+1/2) and Must Roll To Hit For Every Attack (-1/4).  The only reason to add Constant is that RAW requires it, but it shouldn't be totally negated in cost... ergo, (-1/4).

C'mon, *someone* must have put Continuing Charges on an attack.  How did you build it?

6 hours ago, Hugh Neilson said:

So you expect that 12 PD Brick to fare well in combat?  He's maybe a bit more agile than the average guy - let's give him an 11 DEX.  That should be fine in combat, right?  [The opposite of the non-combat rogue type having the best CVs in the group.]  You didn't tell us his CON, so I'm not sure what STUN, END and REC he ends up with, but I generally saw reduced END on STR, not increased CON or increased END and REC, to handle END issues.

A 12 PD Brick?  No, I don't expect that.  Grabbing a couple of Bricks from the BBB and 5E:  Obsidian (BBB) buys up PD, ED, and SPD; REC, END, and STUN are at base levels.  Taurus (5Er) buys up REC as well.  So 1/2 or 1/3 of Figureds were left at base levels.

6 hours ago, Hugh Neilson said:

I think what was really needed was guidance on how to assess appropriate values for the secondary stats.

Agreed!

10 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

 

If you have, here's how you can find out and fix it. From the drop-down menu by your username at the top right corner of this page, click on Settings. Go to the bottom of the left-hand menu, and hit Signature. Above the box for your signature there's a toggle for View Signatures?

 

Mind you, I view the website on a computer. I don't know if all that works for a mobile device.

That did it!  Thanks!  (I use a computer as well)

31 minutes ago, Hugh Neilson said:

At some point, I believe Steve Long just said "if we get Primary and Figured to balance out right, why bother keeping the link?"  Good question.  If "CON no figured + Figured" = "CON with Figured", why have two ways the build the exact same thing?

I have an answer to that question (actually, I've had it since soon after 6E was released):  While Steve, you, all of SETAC, and I have those formulas memorized and can tell at a glance where the old Figureds 'should' be, a new player doesn't have that.  New player - "Okay, I'll make a Brick so 60 STR for a 12d6N attack... hmmm, where should PD/ED/REC/END/STUN be?" 6E made it more difficult for a new player/GM to answer that question.  Same with DEX and OCV/DEC, but to a lesser extent.

Completley minor quibble here (I *like* being able to buy CV separate from DEX) but pre-6E you could technically buy DEX, Only For [OCV, DCV, or OCV and DCV].  I've never seen it, and without an official Limitation value the debate on the correct value would be hurricane-strength, and it gets klunky with Aids and Drains... but it was RAW-legal.

Side note:  I think the authors forgot the severing of DEX and CV, at least for a while, in 6E characters.  Kinetik's Dizzying Spin DEX Drain?  Sure, it makes the opponent slower to react each Phase, but doesn't do a thing to OCV/DCV like it would have in 5E and earlier.

Also, thanks for all the behind-the-curtain thinking in your post! 👍

Inspired by Utensil's Continuing Fuel Charge thread in the Hero Designer Forum:

Effect: In an amine game, I want to buy a sword that can grow larger and do more damage for a short period of time twice per day.

Sword:  Killing Attack - Hand-To-Hand 2d6 (3d6+1 w/STR), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (45 Active Points); OAF (-1) 22

-plus-

...wait, I can't add Continuing Charges to an Instant Power.  Use Time Limit?  No... "Time Limit is generally intended for nonattack abilities — “utility” or defensive powers that don’t require Attack Rolls to affect a target or which won’t unbalance a campaign. In most cases, attacks should use the standard HERO System Duration rules (see 6E1 127)."  Okay, add Constant (+1/2) and 2 5-minute Continuing Charges (-1/2)

Temporary Big Sword:  plus Killing Attack - Hand-To-Hand 2d6 (2-1/2 d6 w/STR), Constant (+1/2) (45 Active Points); 2 Continuing Charges lasting 5 Minutes each (-1/2) 30

But waitaminute... the plus part of the Power is Continuous, which means once I hit, that 2d6 automatically keeps hitting as long as I retain LOS and pay the END cost (which, as a Power with Charges, is zero).  That doesn't match the effect.

How do I get out of this - use Time Limit instead, apply a custom Limitation to Continuous, something else??? 🤔

[Edit] Interestingly, in Champions Complete the text noting that Continuing Charges must be applied to a Constant or Persistent Power is missing.  So I understand the confusion with HD requiring Constant (or Persistent) before showing the Continuing Charges options (and would share it if I was using CC as a primary rules reference). [/Edit]

1 hour ago, Lord Liaden said:

ARGENT: High-tech criminal group run like a global corporation. Some similarities to AIM from Marvel Comics, but more diverse and profit-oriented. Please follow the link in my signature for all published details.

[Off-Topic] Have I somehow turned off a toggle that shows folks' signatures? [/Off-Topic]

I see them:  both under Notes On Playing -> Reasonable Characters, page 71 in 2E and page 96 in 3E.  The same numbers as well (except from having another 25 CP in 3E).  Thanks!

Attacks: 40-60 points.  Here's the original standard of 10d6N attacks, since upped to 12d6.  This is backed up by the example characters; 2E Mechanon has 12d6 EB while 3E Mechanon has a 75 point Multipower, but with a 12d6 EB at 1/2 END. Main attack in the BBB is also 12d6EB at 1/2 END.

On 3/10/2022 at 6:52 PM, Grailknight said:

The thing is we're talking about  company approved products to be marketed as the official campaign.

 

It just makes sense that there would be an overall editor that makes final company approvals.

 

We can get general guidelines for submissions but before they get the official stamp of approval and are sent to PDF/printer, they need to be vetted so they are consistent with those guidelines. There has to be a line and quality control editorial system in place.

 

Will this have problems? I can see authors not wanting too many changes to their creations and there is a danger of too much of the same old thing min each product. But this is the only way to consistency. Otherwise we will end up repeating the mistakes that led to Dr. D and Takofanes.

This as well! 👍

Christopher hits on an important topic here.  There is sort of a Superheroic Standard power level (more than just CPs) established by Champions and the published adventures and villains books going back to the 1980s.  Also note the power creep - the level used to be 50 AP / 10d6N, now it's 60 AM / 12d6N.

For example:

A 60 AP 12d6N main attack (with various 8d6N +1/2 attacks in a Multipower)

     *  This level is upgraded to 75 AP 15d6 for a higher-level (Lieutenant, but not Big Boss).  This does an average of 10.5 more STUN per hit, and an average hit now Stuns an average (non-Lieutenant) hero.

20-25 DEF and 10-23rDEF

SPD 5-7

Movement and Defense Powers at 0 END (so main END expenditure is for attacks)

Taken to low levels of negative STUN by two average-damage hits of their own main attack, but not quite Stunned by one average-damage hit.

The 6E1 guidelines are a good start, but too broad:  when was the last time you saw a 400/75 character with 3 or 10 SPD?  CV range 7-13:  13 hits 7 on 17-, 7 hits 13- on 5-. 

So more definition is useful, particularly for writers and newer GMs/players.  Particularly in how it affects combat.

6 hours ago, assault said:

Of course you could always use the 2e/3e guidelines. They work quite nicely, as long as you neutralize the extra dice you have to roll in 5e/6e.

I'll go back and look through those.  Any particular books you're thinking about?

1 hour ago, Derek Hiemforth said:

 

In my "defense," I copied this error over from Champions.  So while it's definitely a mistake, it's not my mistake (at least, not originally).  

Understood. 😁 The writeup in Champions makes me want to :headdesk: too...

From Episode 2 - We started with a pre-WWII War of the Worlds story arc.  In episode 2, the heroes fight a Martian tripod.  During the fight...

Diamondback (the team's Brick) - For TRUTH, JUSTICE and punching you really hard!