PhilFleischmann

Hmmmm... Alcohol? Mind Control? Love Potions? Attacks that effect breathing (thus his singing)? DEX Drains (affects playing an instrument)? Back to the topic: I always use limits on the number of points in any one category of Disad, however, I agree that Psych Lim is so board that there shouls be an exception. I split Psych Lims into three categories: Codes and Restrictions - any code of behavior whether self-imposed or required by his superior/affiliation. Code vs. Killing, Vow of Poverty, Can Never Lie, Must Always Obey the Letter and Spirit of the Law, etc. Irrational Reactions - any situation, topic, thing, or group that prevents clear thinking. Bigotry, Phobias, Manias, Prejudices, In Love with X, Fascinated by Y, Obsessed with Z, etc. Personality Flaws - general problems that aren't necessarily triggered by a particular stimulus. Overconfident, Underconfident, Socially Awkward, Always Telling Lame Jokes, ADD, Subconscious Death Wish, etc. And of course Enraged/Berserk is also a psychological limitation, but it's already its own category. I usually double the allowance for Psych Lims, but use the limit for each subcategory. Thus, in a game where the limit on any one category is 50 points, I would allow 100 points worth of Psych Lims, with no more than 50 from any of the three subcategories.

Just to clarify what I meant by this "three BODY scores" thing: The evil Dr. Badguy has a big machine in his lair that does something unhealthy. The machine has 10 BODY. I've managed to find the machine and want it to stop doing its unhealthy thing, so I do 10 BODY damage to it. It now stops functioning. But then I realize, what if one of Dr. Badguy's faithful assistants comes by after I've left and repairs the machine? Or what if agents from the evil foreign nation of Meanland get their hands on this technology? So I do 10 more BODY damage to the machine. Now it is permanently broken and will never work again. If Dr. Badguy wants to do this again, he'll have to create a whole new machine from scratch. And then I realize that Dr. Badguy himself is hiding in a secret vault on the other side of this machine. I've rendered it a useless hunk of metal, but that doesn't mean I can walk through it to get to the secret vault. So I do 10 more BODY damage to it and it is now in little bits and pieces on the floor, taking up negligable room and not obstructing my path. Dr. Badguy is cowering in a corner just beyond. This would be the general rule for macro-mechanical machines and similar objects. It's even analogous to living beings such as people: A base character has 10 BODY. 10 BODY damage causes him to "stop functioning," i.e., his biological processes no longer work correctly and he is dying. 10 more BODY damage and he's dead, "irrepairable," no doctor can save him now. But at this point you've got a corpse that takes up room and can be tripped over, etc. My estimate is that 10 more BODY damage ought to reduce him to pieces small enough to ignore (except of course for the smell, the health hazard, the stains, and the sheer yuckiness). So a standard object/living creature could be said to have 10/10/10 BODY, or 20/20/20 BODY or whatever depending on its size and toughness. Non-standard objects would not have the same score for all three. For example, more electronic devices are fairly delecate (they run on smoke as you may recall, for once you let the smoke out, they stop working). A typical desktop computer might have 1/1/6 BODY. It takes very little damage to stop it working, but more to break it into lego-block sized pieces. In some cases, complex objects like computers might have a 0 for their second BODY score, meaning that once you do enough physical damage to stop it working, it will never work again. It might be a good idea to have Computers (i.e., character-point Computers, AI's and the like, as opposed to real-world PC's, Macs, etc.) to have X/0/X BODY, for whatever value of X is purchased. Some objects, like walls and trees and boulders are much simpler, since they don't really have much game function other than to be barriers. Do X BODY to a wall, and you've made a small hole that you can look through or maybe even reach your arm through. Do X more BODY and you can now walk comfortably through the hole you've created. At this point, if it was a load-bearing wall, the building might start to collapse. Do X more BODY and the hole will accomodate just about anything. Someone arriving on the scene might not be able to tell where the wall was.

Do any of you have or use any modified rules for damaging/breaking objects? I find that the current rules have some realism flaws: 1) Why should all inanimate objects have Resistant DEF? Yes, hard things such as brick walls and metal armor should, but you can stretch out a piece of rope and let elephants trample it and it won't break, but you can cut it easily with a 1 pip HKA pocket knife. Therefore, I say soft, flexible items should have non-resistant defenses. Using the 3 to 1 DEF rule for automatons which take no STUN, just multiply the object's DEF by 3, but say that it's non-resistant. In TUV, there is a klunky construct about ship's sails - even though they're inanimate objects, and therefore have resistant DEF, they should be easy to damage. So they're given a Susceptibility (or was it a Vulnerability?) to KA's. Wouldn't it have been simpler to just say their DEF is non-resistant? 2) Why should all inanimate objects have PD=ED? Ever light a rock on fire? 3) I've been toying with an idea of giving objects three BODY ratings: One to render the object non-functional (but repairable), one to render the object irrepairable, and one to break it into bite-size chunks. Usually all three will be the same.

So how would you heal someone from being CON-stunned? Obviously, you have to get to them before their phase comes up, but then what? What power do you use to cancel out the lost phase of "recover from being stunned"? And similarly, could you use the same power to save an otherwise spoiled recovery? I was trying to catch my breath (taking a recovery) but then I was hit! Fortunately, Aspirin Lad came along...

I use these types of "treasure" all the time. If your players don't understand anything but money, teach them that there are some things money can't buy. Do they let the monster destroy the village because the monster is a mindless animal and has no hoard of treasure, and the villagers are all poor? "Sure, we'll save your village. What will you pay us?" "Uh, a warm bowl of porridge?" "See ya." The total mercenary attitude is likely to earn enemies. Even when the party does get money, the people may refuse to do business with them, or charge them outrageous prices. "A tankard of ale will cost you twenty gold pieces. We need the money to rebuild the village that you let the monster destroy, you see." Remember also that in a quasi-historical setting, the goods and services that the PC's want aren't necessarily available, at any price. "Armor? We have no armorer in this village. We raise sheep."

Another thing you could do is create a new SPD Chart (it isn't hard) with more phases per turn, say 24. Each phase would then represent 1/2 second, you still get post-24 recoveries every turn, etc. For people with <12 SPD, this really doesn't make much difference. If your SPD is 4, you still get an action every 3 seconds. But with a "longer" SPD Chart, characters with, say 18 SPD, can distribute their phases evenly throughout the 24 segments available: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 - x x x - x x x - x x x - x x x - x x x - x x x - x x x - x x x I've created villians before with >12 SPD, and have found that it didn't work very well. There's diminishing returns after a while. You have to spend LOTS of END and it's a long time between End-Of-Turn Recoveries. Sure, you can take recoveries any time, but your opponent can just hold until you do and then mess it up for you. And If you're sacrificing phases to take recoveries, that defeats the purpose of being able to take extra actions somewhat. In my case, I had a villain (named "Accelerato" IIRC) who had a 24 SPD and wound up costing about 400 points. He was taken down by a single 250-point brick because he couldn't help but be inefficient. This was in 4th ed. You can also use the "extended SPD Chart" for greater granularity in SPD, without necessarily having characters faster than 12.

The Ultimate Brick = BamBam The Ultimate Mentalist = Kazoo What can we use "Shleprock" for?

As an issue in and of itself, it's not important. I ignore the line anyway. However, if HERO wants more of my money, I want to see some effort that they are trying to improve their product and satisfy me as a customer. As AnotherSkip said, I want to see the bad stuff go away. I want to see useful changes made. While they're at it, maybe they (Steve) can either: a) Change the cost of Damage Shield so that it it more balanced, or Explain why DS should be that expensive. Steve does not answer questions of the form "Why did you make X work this way?" And I understand why he doesn't - it would take too much time out of his busy schedule writing books for us. But it is frustrating, anyway. Overall, I don't think we need a new core rulebook, just new Errata and FAQs. But if we're to have one, I'm going to call it BARNEY.

I don't like the Real Cost/3 system, but I don't doubt that it can work and be balanced. I don't adjust the real cost at all, but I do let magic be purchased in frameworks. It tends to work out the same. I don't want wizards to simply be magical artillery in my games, so I require all significant attack spells to have significant limitations: Extra Time, Increased END, Side Effects, etc. In my campaign world, if you want more combat strength, you want fighters, not wizards. Don't get me wrong: wizards are quite useful in the game even in combat, and not just for protection, movement, escape and support, but also for dealing damage to creatures that are difficult to hurt with normal fighter's weapons and techniques. Most wizard's attack spells will have some unique characteristic that sets them apart from mundane weapons, like Affects Desolid, Indirect, Extra-Dimentional, Drains, Flashes, Transforms, Mental Powers, etc. Against an army of orcs, the fighters do most of the work, but a wizard is certainly handy. Against a nigh-invulnerable demon, a wizard is almost essential, with fighters being handy also.

If the power requires both foci to use, the limitation is at least as much as the greater of the two. If you stop my power by taking away an OAF, I should get at least -1 Lim. If there is an additional focus, I might get even more of a limitation for it, but never less. If a power requires two OAFs for instance, I'd probably give it -1.5. If it required an OAF and an OIF, -1.25. If it was an OAF and an IIF, I think it would only be worth -1.

I have no expectation at all of getting the changes I want. I am not implying Steve is an idiot. I am saying that that one statement is idiotic. To think that HERO gamers, who have already signed on to do a lot of math (granted, it's only simple arithmetic), can't deal with the concept of the number zero, is just foolish. And the the FAQ goes on to make the situation even worse. You shouldn't have to create a whole new system of number theory where 2-1=1, but 2-2=-1. I am not ordering anyone to do anything. If the revised edition only corrects grammar and formatting errors, it isn't worth buying *to me*. If it's actually going to correct flaws in the rules, such as the one I cited, then the purchase becomes more worthwhile.

I've come around somewhat on this topic. I used to be dead set against raising the cost of STR (and CON). Because in Champions, Bricks become almost prohibitively expensive if STR costs 2/1. Now what I think I'll do is leave the costs as-is for Champs (Superheroic) and have STR cost 2/1 in Heroic genres, Fantasy Hero in particular. One thought that convinced me is that no one ever sells back their STR. It's just too big a sacrifice for the paltry amount of points you get back. If STR is 2/1, it becomes more viable to play a "realistic" wizard who is physically frail because he's devoted his life to academic puruits rather than physical developement.

I cannot see myself buying a new edition as described here. If I want genre info, I'll buy the genre book. That way I only buy the books for the genres I'm interested in. ATTN: Steve Long: I may buy it eventually, but I will absolutely not buy it at all if: It still includes the idiotic line: "No temperature level 0 exists." Take that line out, and I'll most likely buy it sooner or later. Are there any other glaring mistakes that need correction?

WILMA? ETHEL?

I don't understand this. How exactly is 5th edition "a new level" of complexity compared to 4th? It seems to me that many areas were made simpler: Eliminating 2 powers (Regeneration, Instant Change), Shape Shift now uses the same mechanic as Sense-affecting powers, Enhanced senses are all built using a unified set of rules, Talents are built on the other existing rules, ID Disads work like other disads as "Social Limitation," etc. Whether or not you think any of these things were good ideas, they do simplify the system. What are the areas of complexity that were added? Megascale, Age 10-, distinguishing between targeting and non-targeting for Sense-Affecting powers. That's all I can think of off hand. Sure other changes were made that you might like or not, such as Flash per Segment instead of per Phase, but you can't say that makes it more complex. The whole concept of piling on Advantages and Limitations has been around since first edition. New powers and mods were added because there were effects that were otherwise impossible to purchase (or impossible to purchase with a balanced cost). The game has really only gotten slightly more complex since 1st. And remember, this is a Role Playing Game - they're always going to be complex. You can't simulate complex phenomena without some complexity in the rules.

Although I usually use the standard STUNx rule, I do occasionally toy with other approaches. I like the 2d6/2-1 that was mentioned, especially because of the finer granularity of results. I also like using the HLC to determine the STUNx. Someone mentioned 3d6/3-1 which I also like, but have never thought of doing before. It provides even finer granularity of results if you're willing to multiply 14 by 2 2/3. Two suggestions that I use occasionally: 1) Drop the minimum of 1 for the STUNx, let it be 0 once in a while. This is realistic. Have you ever cut yourself and not known it? You look down and notice you're bleeding, but you didn't feel any pain. Remember when President Reagan got shot? (Today is his 93rd birthday, BTW) He didn't even feel the bullet. And it hit him in the head! According to FREd, he should have taken 5x STUN, but instead he took none! 1a) I've tried to come up with a slightly different Hit Location Chart for hits from behind, but that's a separate discussion. (Back of head /= face, crotch /= buttocks, etc.) 2) Similar to what was mentioned before, use 5 points per die of Killing attacks just like normal attacks, but count the STUN and BODY slightly differently: STUN is -1 on each die (or for greater simplicity, just subtract the number of dice from the total of pips). BODY is 0 for each one rolled, 1 for each two through four, and 2 for each five or six. (0,1,1,1,2,2) IOW, BODY = (# of dice) - (# of 1's rolled) + (# of 5's and 6's rolled). This produces the exact same average STUN and BODY as the standard method - and the same maximum and minimum too!

Most of the problems I have with little rule details, I simply ignore or change to my liking (like the Damage Shield thing, and the Transfer thing). So I don't really have any major gripes that actually hurt play. What really irritates me, however is the sheer stupidity of one statement: "No temperature level zero exists." IMO, that statement should be taken out, shot, chopped into little pieces, buried in the back yard, and never spoken of again. What the $%^% is wrong with having a temperature level zero? If the Vedics could understand the concept of zero at least three thousand years ago, and the Arabs had no trouble with it over 1500 years ago, why did Steve Long think that we, in the 21st century, who have already committed to a game system that requires a lot of arithmetic with positive and negative numbers, can't handle zero? Everyone has a brain fart once in a while. I guess this was Steve's. But then why did he compound the problem in the FAQ? OK, that's it. But yes, there's one other thing: A few rules that seem to be just plain not-thought-through. Like the +5 points for double the pieces of equipment. If your galactic battle cuiser has a 100-point main cannon and 16 50-point auxilliary cannons for 50+20 (four doublings) = 70 points, why not just buy 16 main cannons for 20 points? 170 points for a main + 16 aux, when you could have 32 main for 125 points? Some things are just so obvious that you have to wonder why nobody caught them. I wanted there to be a "Why did you make this decision, Steve?" Area, along side the rules questions area, but he doesn't have the time to justify every little thing that someone might ask for. And I understand and appreciate that fact. But, man...

I must echo what KA said. Agent 537 seemed to have two problems with his players: They don't understand what it means to be a hero. They don't understand the value of teamwork and strategy. KA addressed the first problem quite well. Allow me to address the second: This will require a little more work on your part. How are you playing the villains? If six 350-point supers can take down Dr. Destroyer or some cosmic-level villain without using teamwork, then I suspect the GM isn't playing the villain right. Go ahead and let the villains be as intelligent as they should be. Let them exploit the heroes' weaknesses. Let them press every advantage. One useful technique is to send the PCs against a team of villains. Let them be well matched to the heroes' weaknesses, but let the PC's Psych lims motivate them to attack each villain that can defeat them. For example, let the villain with the AE Entangle taunt the martial artist hero into fighting. Let the rubber-bodied villain with Physical Damage reduction really get on the hero brick's nerves. The PCs won't be able to just attack whoever they feel like attacking. They'll have to think a little to determine how best to take down the bad guys. Make your players do a little thinking and investigation. Someone is robbing all the local banks in the middle of the night without setting off any alarms or leaving any trace. How? If the players say, "We can't do anything until a bad guy in a costume shows up and loudly announces himself to be the bank robber," then let them watch TV, while you go out and find some players who actually want to play. To teach the lessons of both heroism and tactics, try taking a hostage.

You don't have to worry about UNTIL agents being better-armed than VIPER agents. UNTIL is a part of the United Nations (that's what the first two letters of UNTIL stand for). And as everyone knows, U.N. troops always leave as soon as the shooting starts.

The Needle one could be done using Penalty Skill Levels with PS: Sewing, only to offset penalties for lack of proper equipment (the needle). Actually, Penalty Skill Levels work very well for this kind of thing. How 'bout: Just Kidding: This is a handy knack to have when among people of higher social status than you. It's easy to slip up and say or do something wrong that might offend or make a bad impression. Using this knack, the people around you will dismiss your faux pas as just a joke on your part. High Society (10 + PRE/5) - 5 pts., plus 5 PSLs to offset unfamiliarity with social customs - 5 pts. Only to cancel simple honest mistakes for which you are genuinely sorry (-2), Incantations (self-depricating remarks or laughter) (-1/4), Doesn't work on anyone actively hostile to you (-1). 2 points.

Did we ever get a definitive answer as to what sex this person is? We should at least know if we should be saying "he" or "she."

I don't like Blazing Away either. If your enemy starts blazing away on you, you can stand right in front of him and stay perfectly still (take a recovery while you're at it!), and chance are he won't hit you. If he makes 216 shots he'll probably hit you once! I think this is what the stormtoopers from Satr Wars were doing when R2D2 and C3P0 casually walked across the hallway though the hail of blaster fire. It's something to let villains do when you want the heroes to get away.

I've done this many times, and I've posted on these boards many times about how I've done it, and I'm sure I'll post this suggestion again many times in the future because everyone seems to ignore it. I use Drain. The idea is that taking away points of power is comparable to putting on points of disad. If you want to bestow a 20-point Disadvantage, you need 20 points of accumulated effect from your Drain. Usually, you'll want to add "Slow Return Rate" to make it last a while. I usually do this with Physical Limitations. I had a villain that could make people blind, deaf, unable to walk, etc., in a multipower of Drains. With this method, I consider Vulnerabilities and Susceptibilities to be "Defensive Disadvantages," so the effect of an Adjustment Power is halved, just like it would be for Defensive Powers. I find this method to be very well balanced because: 1) The cost is proportional to the effect created. Just like a 2 DC attack costs less than a 4 DC attack, bestowing a 10 point disad costs less than bestowing a 20 point disad. 2) It has nothing to do with the amount of BODY the target has. Why should making a 30 BODY Brick blind be more difficult than making a 10 BODY Martial Artist blind? 3) It can be countered by other appropriate Adjustment Powers such as Aid, Succor, and Healing. Transform has none of these properties. I do this with other Adjustment Powers as well. I have a mentalist who can Aid you to temporarily cancel out (or reduce) your Psych Lims. Note a few things: a) Power Defense still applies. Any additional points spent on powers contrary to the Disad must be drained first before the Disad can be applied. For example, if you wanted to Drain away someone's sight (i.e. make them blind) you first apply the drain to whatever enhanced sight powers the target has. It the target has +5 to Sight PER rolls, that's 10 extra points that must first be drained away before any additional points are built up to bestowing the blindness. It's just like draining someone's STR: It takes more points of effect to drain a 50 STR brick down to 0, than it does to drain a 10 STR normal down to 0. In effect, Sight is a power, one that just about everyone in the game world has for free (an "Everyman Power"). So are all the other normal senses, 6" of Running, 2" or Swimming, etc. And also taking the normal amount of damage from fire or other particular attack form. IMO, this is the best way to handle effects like this. I've been doing it this way for years.

You'll also need to be able to write up a towel if you're playing a game based on South Park. Archer, what are SCO and RIAA and why do they need to die? And I apologize in advance for the following: I never miss my Going Potty roll, because I take the bonus for Extra Time.

Wait just a minoot! Angels can't date, but they can hit people? What? On a date, you're at least being nice to someone. Although, if I was missing my equipment, I might be violent, too. And BTW, there are plenty of rennaissance paintings of fully-functional (or at least fully-equiped) angels, cherubs, etc. I was going to suggest UbO on personal DEF, but someone beat me to it (Armor UbO). And I would buy them as Extra Limbs unless you can pick things up or hang onto somthing with them. Perhaps levels w/Move Thru/Move By while flying, or some kind of AE "Fly Thru" Attack, to represent bowling over several poeple standing in a group as wide as your wingspan. AE Line 2" Wide, say.